[MSJ]

ToT, I think the dreams with the Tree and Kellhus and all of that is him in the Outside. Does that look the enternal, infernal hell? No, its serene. I agree, now, that the hunger descending in the IF was Ajokli's. I think through Kellhus's mastery of the Daimos he has created a hiding place in the Outside, while waging war on the Gods. This place being the tree we see in the dreams.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

ToT, I think the dreams with the Tree and Kellhus and all of that is him in the Outside. Does that look the enternal, infernal hell? No, its serene. I agree, now, that the hunger descending in the IF was Ajokli's. I think through Kellhus's mastery of the Daimos he has created a hiding place in the Outside, while waging war on the Gods. This place being the tree we see in the dreams.

Sorry if you said that in your earlier post and I didn't get it, it happens.
He would have sort of an oasis of his own in the afterlife, then. Well, if someone could figure out how to do that, it would be Kellhus. Not being infallible but having quite a few backup plans sounds plausible enough.

[Madness]

ToT (Thoughts of Thelli, from now on), "summon Madness" there is a great thread around here someplace on Kellhus's infalibility, by Locke, a very good thread and goes into great detail going back to TDTCB.

I'm not sure which you mean: Dunyain Weakness, Kellhus: His luck, misfortune, and stupidity (TDTCB), or the many, many posts on the subject by Locke in the TDTCB, Ch. X posts in The PON Almanac.

2) Ajokli is hunted by the other gods. And if he is Kellhus and they are his mortal companions and/or enemies, it gives a reason for such war in the Outside. They've all leveled up tremendously -- and circumstance "everyone wants that smartass Kellhus dead" leveled up with them.

For my money, this is the Layer of Revelation concerning the Ajokli and TAE's Momemn narrative arc. The Gods have never been hunting Kellhus, they've been trying to stop Ajokli's play through Kellhus.

So your idea is that the baby will be a true prophet, in contrast to Kellhus as a false one? He will definitely be special, as the son of one of the only holy people around (that we know of), nourished on qirri for most of the time he was in the womb, the child of two of the Few, the list goes on. It would be interesting to see the real thing in the story, that's for sure.

Lol, getting off topic by why do people seem to have such a hard time accepting that it's pretty damn clear Mimara is going to be Earwa's "true Prophet" or whatchamacallit...

The baby is a baby. Anomalous for not being stillborn but that could simply be a result of previous Judging Eye holders never having had twins.

[ThoughtsOfThelli]

I'm not sure which you mean: Dunyain Weakness, Kellhus: His luck, misfortune, and stupidity (TDTCB), or the many, many posts on the subject by Locke in the TDTCB, Ch. X posts in The PON Almanac.

Thank you for the heads up.

Lol, getting off topic by why do people seem to have such a hard time accepting that it's pretty damn clear Mimara is going to be Earwa's "true Prophet" or whatchamacallit...

The baby is a baby. Anomalous for not being stillborn but that could simply be a result of previous Judging Eye holders never having had twins.

I'm not having a hard time accepting anything, I don't even know what to think about some things yet before I reread and try to sort everything out in my head.
I have no issues with Mimara as the prophet, though I think the baby might still have some importance in the next series, even if it's just as a secondary character. (I think I might have been internalizing Eärwa's inherent "men's souls are superior to women" thing and just figuring the baby was being set up for later, shame on me. )

I still wish we knew more about the Judging Eye actually works concerning the stillbirths (from someone other than Achamian)...but I know that's an explanation we're likely not going to get.

[MSJ]

Sorry if you said that in your earlier post and I didn't get it, it happens.
He would have sort of an oasis of his own in the afterlife, then. Well, if someone could figure out how to do that, it would be Kellhus. Not being infallible but having quite a few backup plans sounds plausible enough.

I think I mentioned it in a different thread. Sorry, I use most recent posts when looking at the forum, so I jump from one to the other. Expecting everyone to know my thoughts....my problem.

[MSJ]

I think the baby, regardless if its Kellhus incarnate will be extremely important to Earwa. When Mimara looks at her belly with the eye during birth she is blinded. That, combined with the ashes of Nil'Gilccass flowing through his veins, I think will make for "being" greater and holier than anyone to step foot on Earwa. Literally the last soul to be born before the No-God walks...yea, so wether its baby Kellhus doesn't really matter. The baby is hugely important to events to come. I truly expect a time jump. Everyone says everyone will be dead. Esme won't be old old. Akka, has been eating Qirri and I fully expect him to continue, that should add years to his life.

Also, thinking on the 144,000. Its not just Earwa, but the planet that needs reduced to that number. Eanna is full of people, there is a continent to the south, Zuem is largely untouched. I see absolutely zero problems with a time jump and truly, would prefer one.

[jurble]

The Baby is Kellhus and a true Prophet -as Kellhus has always been.  From the first moment he felt inexplicable rage at Serwe being raped by Cnaiur, he was a prophet.  That rage he felt was the God's.    He realized his own prophethood in TTT, but eventually decided he was mad and "The God does not care."  Yet, the mere fact of Mimara possessing the Judging Eye demonstrates that The God does care... or at least take an interest.

The God, by the way, is Bakker himself and always has been.   Thus we can reconcile the immanent tradition of the Inrithi with the transcendental of the Fanim.  The Gods (and all of Creation) are part of God (God is Immanent) because they are composed of Bakker's own thoughts, his thoughts being a material portion of himself.  The God is yet transcendental because Bakker exists apart as entity from his Creation despite it being composed of him.

Moreover, Mimara is an anagram for Mariam, the Aramaic and Arabic name for Mary.  I asked Scott about this on his blog a year ago, and he replied he wasn't sure if it was intentional - but he did not deny the Marian parallels between Mimara and Mary. 

[MSJ]

The Baby is Kellhus and a true Prophet -as Kellhus has always been.  From the first moment he felt inexplicable rage at Serwe being raped by Cnaiur, he was a prophet.  That rage he felt was the God's.    He realized his own prophethood in TTT, but eventually decided he was mad and "The God does not care."  Yet, the mere fact of Mimara possessing the Judging Eye demonstrates that The God does care... or at least take an interest.

Its nice that this is your view and really I am intrigued. But, it by no means is concrete fact that Mimara's baby is Kellhus. Ill concede the tapestry and timeline roughly fit. But, nothing in the text makes it cannon. So slow down there Jurble. At this point, and for a long while I suspect, its pure theorizing. And that's fine, we so a lot of that around here.

[jurble]

Why such hostility?  I'm laying out a theory.  Should I modify my sentences with "maybe, perhaps" or other such nonsense adverbs instead of stating my arguments with simple linking verbs?   You know that's what they explicitly teach not to do in university when making arguments.

[MSJ]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be hostile, wasn't my intent. And, I'm no uni guy, just a regular dude with 2 year in general studies, plus classes for my job. Anyhow, I was just saying that while I like your theory, and you have some textual evidence to back it up, its not certain. Its not cannon. Its the same as me saying Moe+Cnaüir=Meppa. That's all. I feel your conviction. I feel Kellhus is holy too and have said as much the last 2 years. There are just so many ways this can go to say this, this is what happened. When in reality, we have no proof of it.

[MSJ]

Jurble, what I find ironic is the example I use is Moe. Lol. What happened to Moe? He was salted, dead, dead as dead. Yet, we plumbed the text for any evidence real or contrived to find that Moe was still "alive". Well, well, well, his son, Anasurimbor Kellhus was salted also and here we are plumbing the texts to see where our Holy Prophet is. So, to say with conviction that Mimara's son IS in fact Kellhus I find it laughable at first. Then intrigued. Then, I ask, "Is this Moe all over again?".

[TLEILAXU]

Using the university card, a classic.
On topic: So if the Gods were hunting Ajokli to prevent him from bringing aeons of suffering on Eärwa, then I guess it really was true that the Gods were blind to the No-God. So maybe the Judging Eye is a sort of emissary sent by the Gods to reveal Ajokli?

[MSJ]

Using the university card, a classic.

Yea, really, lol. I never attended and am widely regarded as the Master of Theories around these parts!

[jurble]

Jurble, what I find ironic is the example I use is Moe. Lol. What happened to Moe? He was salted, dead, dead as dead. Yet, we plumbed the text for any evidence real or contrived to find that Moe was still "alive". Well, well, well, his son, Anasurimbor Kellhus was salted also and here we are plumbing the texts to see where our Holy Prophet is. So, to say with conviction that Mimara's son IS in fact Kellhus I find it laughable at first. Then intrigued. Then, I ask, "Is this Moe all over again?".

I was always on the Moe-is-dead camp.  There were no textual bases for his survival.   Kellhus, however, has some a fair degree of textual evidence that indicates he had contingencies planned for his death (he told Proyas he knew he was likely to fail, he instigated the journey of Akka and Mimara for some unknown purpose).  Moreover his behavior aside from that indicates something was up.  He retrieves Esme and Kelmomas after Dagliash - the moment he confirmed the Dunyain ruled the Consult - he goads Esmenet into releasing Kelmomas.  Even Malowebi's head's likely purpose was to act as his third eye - to see Kelmomas.

Using the university card, a classic.
On topic: So if the Gods were hunting Ajokli to prevent him from bringing aeons of suffering on Eärwa, then I guess it really was true that the Gods were blind to the No-God. So maybe the Judging Eye is a sort of emissary sent by the Gods to reveal Ajokli?

The Judging Eye is from The God not the Gods.  The Judging Eye can see the No-God, the Gods cannot.  God can see the No-God because the God is by definition all-seeing.    Moreover, the nature of Divine Will in its true sense, rather than that of the creatures called the Gods, is that everything occurs precisely according to divine will.   The Judging Eye, being from God, isn't meant to reveal Ajokli - precisely because it doesn't reveal Ajokli.  God's purpose is indistinguishable from what happens in the world.  So, instead, the purpose of the Judging Eye is what we have seen it do.  From the moment Mimara woke it, and saw everything she has seen with it, that has been its purpose, and everything she saw with it, she was Intended to see with it.

[MSJ]

I was always on the Moe-is-dead camp.  There were no textual bases for his survival.   Kellhus, however, has some a fair degree of textual evidence that indicates he had contingencies planned for his death (he told Proyas he knew he was likely to fail, he instigated the journey of Akka and Mimara for some unknown purpose).  Moreover his behavior aside from that indicates something was up.  He retrieves Esme and Kelmomas after Dagliash - the moment he confirmed the Dunyain ruled the Consult - he goads Esmenet into releasing Kelmomas.  Even Malowebi's head's likely purpose was to act as his third eye - to see Kelmomas.

Not really much difference from your theories than any of Moes, well, maybe some of Moe's. Yours is based on circumstantial evidence,  just like Moe's. The tapestry could be made before Kellhus was ever alive. A picture of a project or some such thing. The baby being Holy, in all honesty goes against or theory if anything. Because, of all we've learned about what damned one, Kelly is should be damned as no other. But, I do think Kelly is is Holy for reasons and proof that hasn't come about yet. So, your theory, while intriguing and based on circumstantial eveidence, is no different than 100 other theories that turnt out to be false. Its plausible at best, but so are so many that turned out to be wrong.