[TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc

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Walter

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« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2017, 01:02:18 pm »
There are a few other bits of weirdness about Kellhus's mirage in that last scene.  It 'floats' down like a soap bubble, which I don't think we've ever seen him do.  I don't have the exact verbiage but I think it seems to be shined on by some 'other light', and I think there is a brief snow/glitch moment.

Wilshire

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« Reply #91 on: July 10, 2017, 01:36:10 pm »
Go ahead and post within the TUC forum without the spoiler tags :) . Just keep [TUC Spoilers] in the topic names for now.

Thanks.
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H

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« Reply #92 on: July 10, 2017, 01:39:16 pm »
There are a few other bits of weirdness about Kellhus's mirage in that last scene.  It 'floats' down like a soap bubble, which I don't think we've ever seen him do.  I don't have the exact verbiage but I think it seems to be shined on by some 'other light', and I think there is a brief snow/glitch moment.

I think that is has to "float" because that's the nature of the illusion.

I guess they figured they'd keep the Ordeal occupied with the illusion until the No-God was fully active, as to just scoop them all up in the Whirlwind?

EDIT: actually, the Sarcophagas is the source of the illusion, or at least, what it is cast over:

Quote
A sarcophagus, iridescent black, hovering where her stepfather stands robed in shining white ...
His leonine image smiling ...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:43:42 pm by H »
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

MisterGuyMan

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« Reply #93 on: July 10, 2017, 04:07:27 pm »
One problem with this though. What does Ajokli gain by killing Kellhus and the No-God walking? Nothing. If anything there stands a chance the the Outside will be sealed and he'll be left howl g at the gates. A lot to digest and definitely need to reread.
I went back and found this quote:

I war not with Men, it says, but with the God.

Yet no one but Men die," the Aspect-Emperor replies.

The fields must burn to drive Him forth from the Ground.

"But I tend the fields."

The dark figure stands beneath the tree, beings walking toward him.  I seems the clinging stars should hook and carry him in the void, but he is like the truth of iron-impervious and immovable.

It stands before him, regards him-as it has so many times-with his face and his eyes.  No halo gilds his leonine mane.

Then who better to burn them?
So the resurrection of the No-God would actually fall into line with some strategy of fighting the Earwan Over-God.  This plan does not at all sound like the "Hell of Earth" plan that Kellhus spoke of with the Mutilated.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 04:21:46 pm by MisterGuyMan »

Walter

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« Reply #94 on: July 10, 2017, 04:12:42 pm »
Important to remember Ajokli is blind to the No-God.  His plan is to harrow the world with the Dunyain, leaving the rest of the Gods on the outside ("the one god hungry enough to enter the granary", the bit where the 5th Multilated says that he is hiding from the other Gods inside of the world). 

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« Reply #95 on: July 10, 2017, 04:53:08 pm »
So, what do people think on the following:

Did Kellhus fail?

Did Ajolki fail?

Did the Consult (DûnSult) succeed?

I think the answer to all those is yes.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Walter

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« Reply #96 on: July 10, 2017, 05:54:07 pm »
Yes to first 2, the Consult haven't quite 'Succeeded', yet, since the No-God hasn't killed enough people, but they are on their way.

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« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2017, 05:58:17 pm »
Yes to first 2, the Consult haven't quite 'Succeeded', yet, since the No-God hasn't killed enough people, but they are on their way.

Right, of course, but "succeeded" in seemingly besting Kellhus (and Ajolki).
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Walter

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« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2017, 06:31:06 pm »
Yeah, not the way that they intended (plan was for Kellhus to either die to Aurang/The Spearman outside or be converted by the Inverse Fire), but they ultimately got what they wanted (No-God operational, no one left to interfere with their pursuit of the Absolute).

False Man

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« Reply #99 on: July 10, 2017, 06:47:55 pm »
Hi everyone, first post here but I just had to join the forum to discuss TUC   ;D
Has anyone noticed the Decapitants entry from the Glossary?

According to Akamis, Pim told of a trip across Gedea that took the Aspect-Emperor and his travel court across the legendary Plains of Mengedda. In the deep of the night, near the end of his watch, Pim found Anasûrimbor Kellhus alone and raving on the haunted plain, alternately removing his head and replacing it with one of the Decapitants. (italics in the original)

I think it's fair to assume that for all of TSA we saw a Kellhus/Ajokli so now we need to go back and reread the whole series.
I also expected some kind of revelation about Esmenet explaining why she is the only one capable of bearing living sons to Kellhus (whose seed seems to be stronger than other Dunyain like Moenghus), either because of genetic reasons (could she be Moenghus' daughter?) or because she's possesses by some God/dess or a Kahiht.

Heavenfall

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« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2017, 07:01:11 pm »
Yeah, not the way that they intended (plan was for Kellhus to either die to Aurang/The Spearman outside or be converted by the Inverse Fire), but they ultimately got what they wanted (No-God operational, no one left to interfere with their pursuit of the Absolute).

It seems they had a whole line of attempts to stop/capture/convert him. In the broader sense every attempt to stop the Ordeal was also an attempt to stop him. They tried to kill him several times over, from chasing over rooftops to nuking him. But more specifically, there's Aurang, The Spearman, Aurax+Inverse Fire, the Mutilated selling their scheme, the hundred skinspies with their Chorae and finally the succeeding agent Kelmomas to counter when Kellhus went into GODMODE. In the end, he did walk upon conditioned ground and it was not his own. Really, there could be any number of further traps ahead that we never even got to see - the Mutilated casting magic, for one. Yes, Kellhus studied the Gnosis for 20 years and they didn't, but there's 5 of them. Or how about calling up a couple of dragons?

I think they wanted Kellhus in the No-god, otherwise they could have just boxed Kelmomas the moment they captured him. I think having Kelmomas in the No-god will turn out to be a mistake in the next series, doubly so if Esmenet (his raison d'être) is still alive. I do not feel that his "two souls" ever got a reasonable use. That is, if we assume that the reason the gods could not see him was because he would become the No-god, rather than not seeing him because of his two souls. I personally prefer the no-god explanation since there must be any number of people with multiple personalities running around.

Edit: Also, thinking about it... Kellhus quite literally gave up two of his children (one fake, one real) to the non-men as part of the bargain. That could have been the Dunyadin-consult, and they could easily just have put her in the box instead. What if rather than the madhouse Insterberinth was, they had put 1-2 mutilated there. No, they absolutely wanted to try to get Kellhus in the box for some reason, even if any of his kids would do. And that reason was important enough that they were willing to risk everything.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 07:18:25 pm by Heavenfall »

Walter

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« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2017, 07:23:50 pm »
@False Man:

Yeah, that's one of a few really interesting things in the Glossary.  It also describes the First and Second Apocalypses using very programmer/operating terminology.

@Heavenfall:

Oh, they definitely wanted Kellhus in the Object.  It's just...I think it would have just killed him.  He was not invisible to the Outside.  He wasn't ever going to be the No-God.  That was Kelmomas all along.  The Mutilated got lucky, their plan was awry from the start.

Wilshire

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« Reply #102 on: July 10, 2017, 07:29:31 pm »
Welcome to the forum Heavenfall and False Man.
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H

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« Reply #103 on: July 10, 2017, 07:42:11 pm »
@False Man:

Yeah, that's one of a few really interesting things in the Glossary.  It also describes the First and Second Apocalypses using very programmer/operating terminology.

I think that is to resonate with the revelation that the Ark, and so the No-God, are something of computer systems.

@Heavenfall:

Oh, they definitely wanted Kellhus in the Object.  It's just...I think it would have just killed him.  He was not invisible to the Outside.  He wasn't ever going to be the No-God.  That was Kelmomas all along.  The Mutilated got lucky, their plan was awry from the start.

Or their plan was perfect, but in a way they could never have realized.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Cuttlefish

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« Reply #104 on: July 10, 2017, 08:36:02 pm »
I personally prefer the no-god explanation since there must be any number of people with multiple personalities running around.

Interesting thing - there was, I think, a mention of his namesake, Anasurimbor Celmomas, having had a stillborn twin, and according to a bard, "his shadow could be seen in his eyes" or something like that.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:37:46 pm by Cuttlefish »