[Wilshire]

I'm not sure what Titirga wields but the Metagnosis seems a strictly new advent as of the Second Apocalypse, as opposed to the First.

It makes me wonder what other novel sorcerous innovations await us.

The Metagnostic Daimos is very likely in our futures.
What might have the Intact of Ishterebinth accomplished in millennia?
The Mangaeccan Consult?
More sorcerous objects of Kellian invention?

The Mangaeccan Consult are probably all just Shaeononra. I think there might be some kind of body-slave-mind-controlled sorcery, where Shae and the Consult place souls in other vessels and run around terrorizing the battle. They could kill the bodies, but the souls just flee to another, effectively making an infinite supply of sorcerers for the Consult to wield.

[What Came Before]

Lol, buddy. Just wait. One of the latter threads from Misc./Unholy Consult to bring over is Synthese/V. Bird where I suggested that we don't know what forms of Synthese the Consult might have created; such as, and not limited to, Tekne/Iron Man suits?!

[Wilshire]

lol thinking of a giant synthase bird and flying around and Black Sabbath singing:

Has he lost his mind?
Can he see or is he blind?
...

[What Came Before]

After Shauriatas' Ten-Soul Hover-Shield in the Ch. 1 excerpt, I figure the Consult might simply have constructed war-machines (pun-intended) avatars for combat like the Bird-Synthese for surveillance.

[What Came Before]

Our topic strayed but it has been ported : The Synthese/V. Bird

[Wilshire]

The Gnosis is best performed by someone who can obtain purity of mathematical meaning?

The Nonmen seem to posses more intelligence that mere humans, possibly due to their longevity.
But I suspect there natural abilities exceed ours (in general).

I dont really think this is true in all cases. At the very least Shae was the one that broke the Barricades that none of the Nonmen could. They may be better at thinking through certain tasks, like a computer is better at solving algebra than a human, but they seem to suffer from this as well. Not a lot of problem solving going on for the race of Cuniori. Men, I think, were always doomed to surpass them.

[dragharrow]

The Gnosis derives from the Quya but the Gnosis has been filtered through thousands of years of human scholarship. I think that the Gnosis practiced in the time of the books is probably very different from the Quya.

Quyan magic is suited to the minds of the Nonmen and Nonmen are weird by human standards. The Gnosis was developed and honed by men. There are probably many Gnostic incantations that are based on earlier Quyan formulas and that accomplish the same thing but the logic of spell has been changed to make it more accessible. Pieces of Quyan knowledge may have been lost and abandoned over the years. Also, humans have expanded on the Quya. They've improved old formulas and developed new ones.

In the end I'd bet that the Gnosis is slightly more powerful than the Quya. The Quya has become stagnant as the Nonmen have declined, whereas humans continue to tinker with the Gnosis.

Now maybe some of the old Quya that are still wondering around, who have all but perfected the gnosis after thousands of years of practice, might stand a chance.

The Nonmen magi who are still around aren't more powerful than human sorcerers due to the superiority of their incantations. They are more powerful than human sorcerers because they are themselves physically and mentally superior. They have inhuman stamina, inhuman intelligence, and many lifetimes worth of practice. They're almost always win, but the Quya is the inferior weapon.

[Simas Polchias]

The Nonmen magi who are still around aren't more powerful than human sorcerers due to the superiority of their incantations. They are more powerful than human sorcerers because they are themselves physically and mentally superior. They have inhuman stamina, inhuman intelligence, and many lifetimes worth of practice. They're almost always win, but the Quya is the inferior weapon.

There was somethinh bakkerspoken about it.

A question in an interview how a race of madnonmen could still use sorcery, considering their mental disfunction. The answer, as I remember, was about memory migration. Like, Cet'Ingira or Nil'Gicass don't "remember" or "understand" sorcery anymore, but have it as a reflex, much like automatism of breathing or walking.

I suppose that makes every Quya an unbeatable enemy for common gnostic adept and explains why there weren't southern or western "renaissances" of tutelage (Gin’yursis was one of the last cunuroi who could both use & explain his art).

[mrganondorf]

The Nonmen magi who are still around aren't more powerful than human sorcerers due to the superiority of their incantations. They are more powerful than human sorcerers because they are themselves physically and mentally superior. They have inhuman stamina, inhuman intelligence, and many lifetimes worth of practice. They're almost always win, but the Quya is the inferior weapon.

There was somethinh bakkerspoken about it.

A question in an interview how a race of madnonmen could still use sorcery, considering their mental disfunction. The answer, as I remember, was about memory migration. Like, Cet'Ingira or Nil'Gicass don't "remember" or "understand" sorcery anymore, but have it as a reflex, much like automatism of breathing or walking.

I suppose that makes every Quya an unbeatable enemy for common gnostic adept and explains why there weren't southern or western "renaissances" of tutelage (Gin’yursis was one of the last cunuroi who could both use & explain his art).

what if there were secret spells that the nonmen never taught humans???  could be some crazy shit!

[dragharrow]

what if there were secret spells that the nonmen never taught humans???  could be some crazy shit!

There definitely were some areas of magic that were never passed on. The aporos for example

[SilentRoamer]

But the Aporos might be a special case in that its practitioners were already shunned by the Quya and the study banned.

[Simas Polchias]

But the Aporos might be a special case in that its practitioners were already shunned by the Quya and the study banned.

Somehow I want meta- (or even plain) aporos to be capable of chain reaction which destroys the very possibility of using sorcery. Bakkerverse-wide, I mean. So that's the reason behind cunuroi ban, not because of a certain luddism in mageocratical society, but to preserve the foundations of known universe.

Oh. Maybe that's why Earwa is a promised land? Somewhere sometime someone was aporetic enough to practically geld the universe to sorcery, except one tiny earwan safespot. Or it'a a "natural" cause of evolution in bakkerverse, where intelligence means sorcery and sorcerers eventually sterilize their world in such sense. Putting things that way, to figth with reality, Inchoroi had to traverse through puny worlds which were deprived of any means to make a real impact upon reality.

Yay. I love my sudden crackpot. Mostly because it makes cunuroi the literal saviours of inchoroi, an equal "perversion" of "natural" order of things.

[Wilshire]

Mini-runnaway Aporos explosion caused the anarcane ground. What else could it be

[H]

Mini-runnaway Aporos explosion caused the anarcane ground. What else could it be

I'm of the mind that the Anarcane Ground was no accident.  It was done to protect the Mansion from the Quya.  What they probably didn't anticipate was the reaction it caused with the Ishroi, who probably just used physical force to remove them from there.  There is little doubt this would have been at the behest of the Quya though.

Mind you, that is all totally made up, but seems more plausible to me than an accident.

[Wilshire]

I like accidents. They happen IRL. Sometimes things just go wrong for no reason, and I'm ok with that happening in books. Bothers a lot of people though.