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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]What was the point
« on: July 28, 2017, 06:10:48 am »
I worry for Bakker's future publications .

Me too. What about the critics' reviews?
Personally, I'd like to return my copy and get my money back because I feel like I've been ripped off and the author is giving a big middle finger to the reader.

Barring that, I'll just have to settle for reviewing it on Goodreads, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc. so that there are sufficient buyer-beware warnings out there. Probably referencing the scene where a little boy is murdered while crying out for his mommy will be sufficient warning about what this book is like. Or maybe referencing one of the many, many scenes of gang rape or necrophilia.
 

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As for Kelmomas affecting the gods, that is explained. He is the No-God, gods can't see him. Gods see the entire timeline, when the timeline changes, the gods change. If you surprise a god, that fundamentally changes that god and Kelmomas always surprises as he is invisible to them.
What? How about when Nau-Cayuti was the No-God...could the gods see Kelmomas then?

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edit: I feel like these types of feelings and minor disappointments are par for the course on anything I read, but some people seem genuinely pissed off that their expectations have been thoroughly overturned. I'm reading a lot about what they didn't like but not a lot of examples of what type of ending they expected overall? e.g. Return of the King type ending, Last Argument of Kings perhaps? Idk.

The book I would have preferred (ending, middle, beginning, plot, character development, etc.) would be one that:

A) Does not use deus ex machina to conclude it -- I'm not disappointed because a god shows up in the story. I have no issue with Yatwer, Ajokli, Momas, Gilgaol, etc. Deus ex machina is a plot device (not a character trope) that is as old as writing itself. It concludes a plot by bringing in a god (magician, hero, whatever) with sufficient power to just end things. There's a reason why no credible author uses it.

B) Does not spend half the book in pedantic detail on rape, sodomy, necrophilia, bestiality, cannibalism, murder, gang rape, gang sodomy, gang necrophilia, gang bestiality, gang cannibalism, rape orgies, sodomy orgies, necrophilia orgies, bestiality orgies, cannibalism orgies, murder orgies, etc. to the detriment of plot, narrative clarity, character development, and so forth.

C) This is the last book of the quadrilogy, so I would expect it to provide closure to some, if not all, of the major arcs. It did not do that. In fact, it just calls into question why those arcs even existed, e.g. Acha and Mimara, Sorwheel.

D) Has a climax that is worthy of the build up. To put this in perspective, more writing is spent on Sorwheel and his, ahem, auto-erotic episode (and how he feels about it afterward throughout the story), then on the showdown with the Unholy Consult (which, by the way, happens to be the name of the book).



   

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This is my first post and I didn't think it would be one where I vented my spleen considering I thought Bakker was one of the greatest writers of fantasy of all time. TUC dispelled that belief.

1) I never thought I would see a Deus Ex Machina (god in the machine) used by Bakker to conclude a book. There was literally a God (No-God) in the Machine (Carapace which was described by the Dunyain as a prostheses for Ark). Notwithstanding the other God that shows up (Ajokli) with no set up.

2) Serwa described the Consult as possessing no more ferocious souls in existence, save her Father. We see Aurang taken out within a couple of paragraphs (Kellhus' battle with Meppa was more fulsome). Aurax seemed like a beaten dog (don't know if he was always like that or just beaten into submission by the Dunyain). Mekeritrig was knocked out instantly by a magic lasso. Shauriatas was written out of the story with a sentence. The conclusion of the book felt like things just ran out of steam. Perhaps if half the book wasn't spent describing sodomy, rape, cannibalism, necrophilia, and general leper licking and other fun acts, there could have been more emphasis placed on a more refined conclusion.

3) Speaking of Shauriatas: he was the Archidemu of the Cunning School, took out Titirga through trickery (the legendary Hero-Mage who was possibly the most powerful sorcerer ever before Kellhus), Cheater of the Gods, figured out a way to penetrate the Artisan's glamour, overall evil genius par excellence, etc. And he didn't even make an appearance because he was taken out off-camera because they were dumb enough to bring, not one, but five Dunyain into their keep.

4) Speaking of the Dunyain, the Consult had a healthy wariness of them considering, you know, everything that Moeghus and Kellhus were able to achieve, being provided with intel by Cnaur, and probably having access to Achamanian's unauthorized biography. Kellhus, when Aurang possessed Esmenet, saw that they FEARED him because he represented something new to their hoary souls. Heck they went through the trouble of finding and destroying Ishual. I find it beyond implausible that they would bring 5 of them to Golgotterath to brainwash them to their side.

5) It also seemed somewhat silly that the Consult, considering how smart they were, couldn't figure out how to activate the No-God. You'd think they would just refer to the last and only time they were able to activate it...you know the time they tossed Nau-Cayuti in, and extrapolate from there. Guess they should have kept better notes.

6) Then there was the question that has been lingering since The Judging Eye - what would Mimara see if she looked at Kellhus with the Judging Eye (seemed that was the whole point of Mimara and Acha's journey). Nope, that didn't happen did it? Conveniently, we get a sentence describing how the Eye just wouldn't open.

7) Then there are things that just seem to break all the rules of this universe with no explanation e.g. Kelmomas apparently able to disrupt or outright banish the Gods from the world, e.g. Yatwer's White-Luck and exorcising Ajokli out of Kellhus by standing in front of him. Right.

8) Then there are the general things that we probably won't ever get an answer for, which leads to the question, why were they even there to begin with, eg. somebody commissioning Kosoter to keep an eye on Acha during the Prelude of the Judging Eye, why the heck was there an eyeball in that Scalper's heart down in the Mansion, etc.

I don't think I'll read the next two books. Time to cut my losses.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]What was the point
« on: July 26, 2017, 09:37:06 pm »
I agree. I feel like a decade of waiting and reading has been just flushed down the toilet. I'm cheesed off enough to register on this forum for the first time. I'll be posting my own thread to go over some of my frustration.

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