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Messages - Alia

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226
I think you should also check this guy out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Ignacy_Witkiewicz. He was a Polish writer, poet and painter of the pre-WWII period, who experimented with mind-altering substances of various kinds. And he would sign his paintings with symbols that show what substance was he using while painting (or not - some are signed something like "two days without cigarettes", too). He also wrote a book about his experiences.

227
General Earwa / Re: Biblical allusions in TSA
« on: February 02, 2014, 09:30:53 am »
I know I'm dragging an old thread up, but when I read TJE, there is one scene that reminds me very much of the Bible, only the other way round. I mean Chapter 9, when Psatma Nannaferi is reciting "Sinyatwa" and says "Cursed be..." This reminds me of Matthew 5 and the famous "eight blessings", only here we have six curses.

228
General Earwa / Re: Musings on Techne creations
« on: January 31, 2014, 03:39:16 pm »
As for female Sranc - if you read the description of Sranc in the glossary at the end of TFT, here they are.

229
General Earwa / Re: TSA in different Languages
« on: January 27, 2014, 03:43:34 pm »
Not really - but then, the purpose is different. If you translate a legal document, such as an act of law or a contract, the translation must be precise and have the same meaning as the original, but it does not need to be pretty. And usually isn't, after all legalese is a language in its own rights.
And publishers care mostly about one thing - that the translation sells. It does not really matter whether it's faithful to the original, if it sells well, that's great.

And let's not forget this famous quote, attributed to Yevtushenko: "Translation is like a woman. If it is beautiful, it is not faithful. If it is faithful, it is most certainly not beautiful." Which is an extreme view of the topic, but there's certain truth in it.

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General Earwa / Re: TSA in different Languages
« on: January 27, 2014, 02:36:02 pm »
But ultimately, it's not even remotely the same book. It's like a translation of a historical text - we might read these as "original texts" but because we usually trust that the translator has purposefully put this extra-work into it.

Obviously, we can't expect that rigour from the average translator of SFF.

But on the other hand, I suppose an average reader of SFF expects that the book will be first of all easy to read in his or her native language. And if it is not, they will blame the translator, rather than think that it was the translator's strategy to express as much of the original text as possible in the translation.

231
General Earwa / Re: TSA in different Languages
« on: January 25, 2014, 07:25:41 pm »
Yeah, now that I read the sentence, it _is_ confusing. What I meant really is that "even if it was true that German was inherently a better language to express Bakker's philosophy, it still would not make a translation necessarily better". Now I hope it is easier to understand.

As for translator-writer collaboration, I've heard somewhere at a convention that Patrick Rothfuss has a special forum for his translators, where he answers their questions about next installments in his series, because otherwise they would not be able to translate some things properly, not knowing the meaning and significance of some elements. If so, that's certainly a rare thing.

Although I must say I don't really like the "nonfan-fic" and "cheating" part. Languages are different, what is acceptable in one, will not be acceptable in another. So a translator always has to make some changes, because otherwise readers in his native language would hate the book (and the translator, too). Things like jokes, puns, allusions to other literary works - they have to be made to work in another language, even if it means deviating from the original.

And now a personal anecdote. When I was a teenager, I really liked "Conan", I read all Howard's stories in my native language and thought they were great. Last year, since Howard's work is in public domain, I downloaded them from Project Gutenberg and read them in English. And this was different from what I read those years ago (remember, I have a great memory, so I remembered those Conans from my youth). It seems the translator (who is quite good, I've read some of his other works) smoothed Howard's language (which from time to time is simply awful) and also toned down his opinions, all this "great, primitive and yet inherently moral barbarian vs. degenerate civilized peoples" stuff. And I don't necessarily think it was wrong - I had a lot of fun reading the books, after all.

232
General Earwa / Re: TSA in different Languages
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:40:23 pm »
OK, so I have a bit of time to sit down to write about translations - and I'm afraid it might just turn tl;dr, so let me know if I get too boring. Short version - it's complicated. And it depends.

First of all, languages are different, even European ones, which (mostly) stem from the same proto-language. For example in most European languages all nouns have gender, masculine, feminine or neutral, which means that even objects can be referred to as "he" or "she". In English, there are very few such nouns, which may already cause difficulties. Another example - there was this book, AFAIR by Jeanette Winterson, a first person narrative in which one could not really guess whether the narrator is a man or a woman. In English or German it's possible to do it easily. But in Slavic languages, like Russian or Polish, when a person is talking about his or her actions, verb forms change depending on their sex. If it's a very short sentence or paragraph, you can find a way to avoid it, but the whole novel? So a translator had to make an arbitrary decision and choose to translate the narrator as a man or a woman (or maybe ask the author?). Anyway, this certainly changed the book very much - but the language itself is to blame.
Or another thing - Stephen King in his "On Writing" said that a respectful author should always introduce his dialogues with "he said/she said". That using verbs like "shouted, whispered, exclaimed" is bad style. Even if what he says is true, it's true only for English. There are languages in which repetition is considered very bad style, so a translator has to invent many different ways of translating "said" and often interpret, whether a character exclaimed, mentioned, interrupted, sobbed or murmured something. Which would make a translation richer in a way.

This said, there are numerous theories of translation and nobody agrees what a good translation really is. It often depends on the book. If you want a light, easy read, the translation should first and foremost be easy to read. If, on the other hand, it is something more complicated, with the author making important points, perhaps it's a translator's duty to communicate those points, even though this may have negative influence on the language.

As for translation making a book better - certainly it's possible. Imagine you have a book that has very well-created characters, amazing world and highly interesting story line - but the language is a bit awkward, the metaphors sound strange, you stumble on some sentences, because they sound unnatural. A proficient translator will be able to smooth the language, while retaining all other elements, which are good.

However, I don't really think that German translation of TSA could be better than the original, because the second language would be inherently better in expressing some points of Bakker's philosophy. For one simple reason - a translator's work is always derivative and there is always a huge potential for misunderstanding, for missing a point, for misrepresentation. Only the author knows what he really wanted to write, a translator is left to guess.

OK, that's all for now, I think.

233
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: January 23, 2014, 06:07:18 am »
Well, I heard an interview with Erikson once and he claimed that he had everything thought through, so that when he started writing GoTM, he already knew what was going to happen in Book 10. And as for extensive worldbuilding - he said he started writing in part because he got mad with all those RPG settings and fantasy book where you have a huge city in the middle of nothing, no fields, no farmers, no possibility of existence really.

234
General Earwa / Re: TSA in different Languages
« on: January 22, 2014, 05:42:22 pm »
Polish translations:
The series: Książę Nicości -> Prince of Nothingness
Book One - Mrok, który nas poprzedza -> Darkness that precedes us.
Book Two - Wojownik-Prorok -> Warrior-Prophet
Book Three - Myśl Tysiąckrotna -> Thousandfold Thought

As for the whole discussion about translations, I would gladly say something about it, but not ATM, perhaps on Saturday I will have more time to elaborate.

235
Are you a polylinguist?

I'm not sure if you've personally researched it then but I'm interested in what you feel your constraints are.

Well, English is not my native language but I've mastered to such an extent (at least in writing, my accent is far from perfect) that I can pass for a native speaker. I also speak German. When I was younger, I learnt Russian and French, but I never perfected them, mostly due to lack of time. But I can steal read Russian and roughly understand what it's all about. And I'm thinking of learning something else altogether, maybe Spanish, maybe Swedish... well, I might do that when I retire.

236
Madness, no, I haven't had it checked or anything, it's just something I try to live with. And well, it has it's perks, too - at my job I'm the one everybody turns to if they want to find out when the next meeting is or compatible. Not to mention learning foreign languages, of course.
I haven't read Disciple of the Dog, maybe I should give it a try.

237
Coming back to the topic - I have terribly good memory. And I mean that - terribly good. I remember _everything_. Which is a problem. So recently in a conversation I mentioned Erratics, because I can really feel for them. My life of course has been much shorter, but I know this feeling quite well, when all those bad, unpleasant memories stack up and weigh you down.

238
General Misc. / Re: What else are you into?
« on: January 19, 2014, 12:36:45 pm »
Well, I love both my jobs (I used to have a third one, which I did only for the money, but the company laid me off, for which I am grateful), so it's not that rough. Only time-consuming.

239
General Misc. / Re: What else are you into?
« on: January 18, 2014, 04:31:43 pm »
I work a lot. Two jobs, one outside, one at home. But I love both, so that's not a very big problem. Although they take a lot of time and my weekdays are long. So at weekends I try not to work at all.
I read. Used to read much more, when I was at high school, before I started my first job and then the second. Mostly s-f and fantasy. And medical blogs.
I also grow plants on my window-sill and balcony. Not the one you might start thinking of, mind you. Just flowers, like hippeastrum, Christmas cactus or geraniums. And I've always been a great fan of botany, so I recognize most of plants I see outside, know their Latin names etc.

240
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: January 18, 2014, 03:35:31 pm »
"Peace" by Gene Wolfe. It's his first full-scale novel, there aren't many strictly fantastic elements, but the atmosphere he creates is fascinating. Loved it.
On the other hand, I couldn't finish Catherynne Valente's "Deathless". Which is something that rarely happens to me, I always try to finish what I start. I tried twice, got to the middle of the novel, decided I still don't care about the main character and the setting is not interesting enought to keep me reading.

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