The Second Apocalypse

General => News/Announcements => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: Gaby Moreno on October 14, 2014, 03:27:38 pm

Title: Hello
Post by: Gaby Moreno on October 14, 2014, 03:27:38 pm
New to R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series--new to the forum.  When I saw the Nietzsche quote at the beginning of The Darkness That Comes Before, I knew it was probably going to be pretty good.  :)
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Wilshire on October 14, 2014, 03:43:13 pm
Two new people posting in a day? Must be some kind of record. Great to see another fan make it to the forum. Welcome.

I'll give you the same advice I just gave the other new person (sorry if you already read it): be careful what topics you open up if you are sensitive about spoilers. Stay away from the General Earwa boards as they aren't spoiler tagged. As kind of an open rule, each board has tagged spoilers for anything beyond that book. So the Thousandfold Thought forum will not have story spoilers tagged for anything in the first 3 books, but should for those that come after.

If you have specific questions/thoughts, feel free to make a topic. Some of the boards are sparsely populated, like TDTCB board, but there are no restrictions on making new topics or posting anywhere.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: mrganondorf on October 14, 2014, 04:40:18 pm
WELCOME!!!  NIETZSCHE + FANTASY = GUHD!!!
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Bolivar on October 14, 2014, 05:55:45 pm
Welcome to the forums Gaby!
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Madness on October 15, 2014, 11:42:42 pm
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, GM.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Gaby Moreno on October 18, 2014, 03:32:54 pm
Thank you all for the warm welcome.  I do have a quick question.  I'm about halfway through The Darkness That Comes Before and I am enjoying it.  However, I'm starting to hear rumors about R. Scott Bakker being anti-woman.  I haven't detected any of that so far, but I don't think I want to continue paying for his works if he is indeed against women.  Any input?
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Madness on October 18, 2014, 03:37:46 pm
I haven't detected any of that so far, but I don't think I want to continue paying for his works if he is indeed against women. Any input?

You cannot wade into the intranet searching for Bakker and not be exposed to this kind of polarization.

I'd just keep reading for yourself. And hopefully you'll engage the community before you leave, if the books do turn you away.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Garet Jax on October 18, 2014, 03:47:16 pm
Thank you all for the warm welcome.  I do have a quick question.  I'm about halfway through The Darkness That Comes Before and I am enjoying it.  However, I'm starting to hear rumors about R. Scott Bakker being anti-woman.  I haven't detected any of that so far, but I don't think I want to continue paying for his works if he is indeed against women.  Any input?

Definitely something that you need to decide for yourself.  I personally do not buy into the "Bakker is against women" movement though, to answer your question.  Don't buy it just because it's on sale, GM.

TSA is definitely an awesome achievement of writing and I suggest you stick to reading it, especially as you seem to enjoy it so far.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts as you read through the series!
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Royce on October 18, 2014, 07:40:18 pm
Quote
Thank you all for the warm welcome.  I do have a quick question.  I'm about halfway through The Darkness That Comes Before and I am enjoying it.  However, I'm starting to hear rumors about R. Scott Bakker being anti-woman.  I haven't detected any of that so far, but I don't think I want to continue paying for his works if he is indeed against women.  Any input?

This is something that still baffles me. That thought never even crossed my mind while reading the books. The reason for that is that there is so much more going on here, and I honestly still can not understand why people get caught up on this issue.

You have to read it yourself, because it can not be discussed without spoilers.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Wilshire on October 18, 2014, 09:32:09 pm
I, personally, don't see any of that.

Read it for yourself and decide, would be my only advice. Those that speak the loudest, in my experience, are seldom the most correct.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: themerchant on October 18, 2014, 09:46:48 pm
I've seen it said as well. A couple of times on "Westeros" a scene has been brought up, and the "accuser's" memory of what happened in the scene invariably turns out to be a false recollection once you examine the text. Other claims were made by someone who had read only 5 pages of the book as well.

However I'm far from the greatest reader so it may well be the case it flew over my head and it does exist outside of what's covered in the metaphysics of the universe he created.

Read and find out as the late RJ might say.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: SilentRoamer on October 18, 2014, 11:05:53 pm
Welcome to the series and to the forum.

Personally I never had any problems with Bakker and his treatment of women, do women get a rough deal? Sure. But only slightly more than everyone else and its as a direct result of the setting. There is no stupidity like Goodkind or glamming like Outlander.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: mrganondorf on October 21, 2014, 12:05:30 am
i like Bakker but don't know anything about the issue but...

to me, it's a big big deal to distinguish between the author's views and the character's views.  i mean it even drives me crazy that people refer to Kierkegaard as the author of Fear and Trembling.  Kierkegaard is the author of the character, Johannes de Silencio, who is the author of F&T.  it's like saying that Bakker is the author of The Compendium of the First Holy War.  Bakker is and isn't in important ways.  i have opinions!!!

Gaby, glad u are on the forum, hope u stay, i think Bakker is in the nascent stage of glory and we can all tell the next generation "yes, i remember when it happened, when hardly anyone knew his name"
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Aural on October 21, 2014, 12:09:54 am
i think Bakker is in the nascent stage of glory and we can all tell the next generation "yes, i remember when it happened, when hardly anyone knew his name"

Oh, if that were only true...
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Wilshire on October 21, 2014, 03:27:02 am
i think Bakker is in the nascent stage of glory and we can all tell the next generation "yes, i remember when it happened, when hardly anyone knew his name"

Oh, if that were only true...

It could happen...
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Gaby Moreno on November 19, 2014, 03:05:05 am
I was very impressed with Darkness that Comes Before.  I'm going to have to find a copy of The Warrior Prophet.  Thank you everyone for the feedback.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Madness on November 19, 2014, 03:08:51 am
Huzzah! It only gets better.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Wilshire on November 19, 2014, 01:34:08 pm
I fear you are going to be stuck reading the rest then. While now TDTCB is probably my favorite, it was the hardest for me to finish the first time through.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: SilentRoamer on November 19, 2014, 02:43:35 pm
TWP has always been my favourite of the PoN Trilogy. Just a few scenes in there that make me go... HOLY FUCK!

Glad you are enjoying Gaby.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Madness on December 04, 2014, 03:58:36 am
In depth discussion on Bakker and feminism can be found around the forum.

Those interested in discussing the topic in detail should follow the links below. Feel free to make a new topic an continue there as well.

Previous post moved here (because I'm too inept to merge it into another ongoing topic sorry :( ):
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1495.0
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: Madness on December 04, 2014, 06:03:03 pm
I'm starting to hear rumors about R. Scott Bakker being anti-woman.

I wouldn't say Bakker is 'anti-woman', but he clearly has issues.  The Second Apocalypse is a series set in a world in which women are - literally - spiritually inferior to men, most of the female characters are whores or sex slaves, and most of them get repeatedly raped, which is described in pornographic detail. So if you're interested in issues around gender and the fantasy genre, or just feminism in general then Bakker's work could be very challenging.

Part of this is intentional. Bakker points out that there's a paradox in most conventional fantasy in which the antagonist is utterly evil but also completely non-sexual, whereas in our world evil is heavily sexualised. Thus Bakker's black semen gushing serial rapist bad guys. But part of Bakker's treatment of female characters seems unintentional. Feminist critics complain that bad male writers compartmentalise women as either whores or crones, and pretty much all of Bakker's female characters fall into those archetypes.

I always think its weird when people say they 'don't notice' the treatment of women in Bakker's work. It's a big part of the books and a very big deal for the author who insists that he's writing a feminist text. So if you don't see it then you're missing a lot.
Title: Re: Hello
Post by: mrganondorf on December 11, 2014, 02:21:31 pm
I was very impressed with Darkness that Comes Before.  I'm going to have to find a copy of The Warrior Prophet.  Thank you everyone for the feedback.

Yay! TWP is my favorite!