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Messages - Cleaver428

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Gonna go all existential here but, also isn't it in our nature to blame something/anything else for our woes?  Aliens, God, the evil monkey in our closet?  We're the architects of our own shitty houses, but always blame something else for it.  Then again, that wouldn't make for very interesting reading, would it?


Funny you say that because the main point Tsarion goes on and on about is that humans are ultimately the root of the problem. His view is that we allowed ourselves to be manipulated by these entities because of our weaknesses. Deep down, we want to be dominated by a greater force to provide the direction in our lives that we desperately crave. It's something along those lines anyway, this Tsarion is a very interesting character. Who knows, maybe his "alternative history" with aliens and whatnot is just a vehicle he uses to get this more important point across.

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General Earwa / The History of Earwa and an Alternative History of Earth
« on: August 10, 2015, 09:29:37 pm »
Recently, I have noticed several links between the history of Earwa and the alternative history of Earth proposed by the likes of Michael Tsarion. From what I have gathered from a few of Tsarion's talks, his history of Earth is incredibly similar to Earwa's. Sorry if this is too long, I just feel like sharing.

Now let's get this out of the way, both Tsarion and J.R.R. Tolkien were heavily inspired by a variety of European mythologies and the Bible. Tsarion formulates his history of the world from these myths and Tolkien created his fantasy universe using these myths as a base. In turn, Bakker's main influence seems to be Tolkien, so these guys are all drawing from the same mythological pool to form their ideas. Because of this, it's easy to see why there are similarities between Tsarion and Bakker. However, the similarities are INCREDIBLY pronounced, at least in my eyes.

The gist of Tsarion's alternative history of our Earth is extremely similar to Bakker's history of Earwa. I'll try to lay out this history as simply and bare bones as I can because it is surprisingly deep. About 50,000 years ago, an insidious and technologically advanced alien race crash landed on Earth and became stranded. They immediately began to manipulate the local population of Earth (humans being the focus) with the end goal being the being the creation of a slave race entirely subservient to them.

The main way they went about this was the genetic alteration of Earth's population to make it inherently subservient, yet also intelligent enough to be highly effective slaves. They also manufactured a sort of proto Judaism to indoctrinate the masses, with them holding the equivalent role of God in the Bible and any dissenters to their plans representing Satan.

Anyhow, despite their indoctrination and genetic alterations, humans eventually caught wind of the terrible nature of these aliens and retreated to other parts of the planet. However, the aliens still desired a slave race and learning from their mistakes, created another slave race by genetically altering reptiles (making the reptiles humanoid) resulting in a cold blooded, brutal and obedient race. Anyone familiar with David Icke will correctly guess where that story leads!
So after the humans caught onto the manipulations of the Inchoroi, ahem, "aliens" these aliens began a war against humanity using all of their technological prowess in an attempt to destroy them.

According to the talk I listened to, Tsarion believes that this war happened about 11,000 years ago and was a literal apocalypse. Both sides were ravaged and the aliens were reduced to only a handful of survivors along with most of their technology being destroyed or lost.

After this, the aliens retreated underground, both literally and figuratively! They began manipulating humanity subtly due to the loss of their former powers. Using their disguised humanoid reptile creations as puppets, they began infiltrating governments, dictating religions, society, customs etc. with their goal still being the enslavement or destruction of most of humanity.

There's so much more to it and you really have to listen to the talks like I did or presumably read his books to get a full picture of just how similar Tsarion's history and Bakker's fantasy are. Obvious links can be made between the Mandate, the Thousand Temples, the nations of Earwa, MAGIC (to name a few) and the stuff that appears in Tsarion’s work. Of course, there are some VITAL differences in the specifics of the two histories yet the overall big picture is remarkably similar.






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General Earwa / Re: Philosophical Themes in The Prince of Nothing
« on: September 10, 2014, 09:39:49 pm »
Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction!!! I was surprised to see deep philosophical themes feature so prominently in these books when I first picked them up. It was a bit overwhelming and I felt I was missing out on the true meaning of the books because of my lack of knowledge in philosophy. I feel a bit more comfortable now and hopefully your sources will fill in some of the gaps for me.

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Literature / Re: I don't get Erickson
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:20:21 pm »
I don't want to get into those books for the same reason I don't want to get into the wheel of time. That series is just huge and I doubt I would ever ever get through it. Maybe later in life i will give it a shot but for now it is just way too intimidating.

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General Earwa / Re: Philosophical Themes in The Prince of Nothing
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:09:51 pm »
It's really interesting that Kellhus is also ruled by his own certain brand of the darkness that comes before. I guess he is just more aware of its existence than the other characters in the story. I suppose Achamian has also sort of rejected his darkness because of his intense skepticism. Achamian seems to be the character that the audience is meant to see as 'the good guy' despite his flaws. But in comparison to kellhus most of the characters aren't all that bad in my opinion haha. I view kellhus as a product of his upbringing, you really can't blame him for the stuff he does because it has been drilled into him. All those flashbacks in Ishual show that initially, he was just a little bit hesitant about the dunyain ways but their relentless conditioning really twisted him. (The moment when he first confronts the faceless people in the chamber comes to mind) Do you think the author indicates that basic morality is inherent regardless of upbringing? Even though kellhus was conditioned from birth he still had moments when he lapsed out of his conditioning and seemed to feel real compassion or something akin to it. woah woahhh I have never read anything in the fantasy genre quite like this stuff.

One thing I found really strange, messed up and almost comical was the consult guys and skin spies always getting aroused in so many of their scenes. Like when the synthese teases sarcellus with its wing. That was total insanity!

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General Earwa / Philosophical Themes in The Prince of Nothing
« on: September 08, 2014, 01:03:35 am »
Throughout The Prince of Noting, I found myself believing I knew the themes and ideas one day, and then the next day feeling completely lost. I have done a fast, pathetic search of the boards and found only bits and scraps of what I'm looking for so far. I understand these novels are meant to be interpreted differently but I think I would really benefit moving forward in the series if I had a general idea of what the author was shooting for. So from my limited understanding most of the people in the story (except that damn kellhus and maybe a few others) are ruled by the darkness that comes before which includes religion and culture. The books critique this and the main point seems to be that following these arbitrary customs results in destruction, war and generally bad stuff. But then Kellhus comes in and his dunyain philosophy rejects the darkness that comes before. But kellhus is ALSO portrayed poorly even though he rejects the darkness. So what is going on here? Does the author imply that some sort of middle ground is needed to be found between outright rejection of the darkness and a complete embrace of it? I have read up on Kant and Nietzsche ("read up" is putting it strongly) so I kind of understand the motivations of the characters but I just don't feel comfortable with what the main themes and ideas are yet.

One more thing, is everything made clear in the aspect emperor trilogy? I am planning on getting those books soon.
Thanks people


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