The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => Atrocity Tales => Topic started by: Madness on February 06, 2014, 10:07:05 am

Title: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 06, 2014, 10:07:05 am
Wilshire and I were talking in the Quorum yesterday (?) about stories we'd like to see in the Atrocity Tales (and Wilshire asked that the timeline encompass the years up until TJE). A couple that came up:

- Kellhus (Non or/ POV) in Atrithau and the OG Zaudunyani.
- First Holy War Redux with Mandate (Unification Wars).
- Kellhus' time doing Kellhus-y things between TTT and TJE.

I would add now that I'd love to read about either (or both) of the Scholastic Wars, obviously everything Nonman Tutelage, probably some Schools of Sauglish at their height. Perhaps teasers of a stand-alone on the First Apocalypse.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 06, 2014, 02:04:05 pm
BTW I'm pretty sure that Kellhus' first followers called themselves adunyain (or little-dunyain). Not 100% on that name, but pretty sure that was the given translation.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Phallus Pendulus on February 06, 2014, 02:37:47 pm
All of the below would make great one-shot tales:

- The first meeting between the Nonmen and the Inchoroi, told from a first-person viewpoint (not the "Biblical history narrator" style we get in the TTT appendix)
- The last days of a Nonman female, dying from the womb plague
- That epic battle where Cujara-Cinmoi gets killed by the traitor, after snapping the ALL CAPS DRAGON in half
- Kellhus' journey south, between the Nonman-fight and his encounter with Cnaiur (how did he randomly end up on Scylvendi turf?)
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 06, 2014, 03:35:37 pm
BTW I'm pretty sure that Kellhus' first followers called themselves adunyain (or little-dunyain). Not 100% on that name, but pretty sure that was the given translation.

Even when I was writing that to you yesterday I was questioning myself. I should have just reached two feet behind me this morning and checked TDTCB.

All of the below would make great one-shot tales:

- The first meeting between the Nonmen and the Inchoroi, told from a first-person viewpoint (not the "Biblical history narrator" style we get in the TTT appendix)
- The last days of a Nonman female, dying from the womb plague
- That epic battle where Cujara-Cinmoi gets killed by the traitor, after snapping the ALL CAPS DRAGON in half
- Kellhus' journey south, between the Nonman-fight and his encounter with Cnaiur (how did he randomly end up on Scylvendi turf?)

+1. Bakker has said he may or may not do a standalone with the Cuno-Inchoroi wars.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Somnambulist on February 06, 2014, 03:57:52 pm
Nin'janjin has always fascinated me, even more than Mekeritrig.  We're given points of interest with him, but the full story (or at least more of his story) would probably be pretty atrocious.  He isn't mentioned after killing Cu'jara Cinmoi, except for fleeing back to the Ark, iirc.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 06, 2014, 05:04:44 pm
The fall of Cil-Aujas, maybe with the POV of both a Nonman and a slave.

Really the rise and fall of any Mansion would be cool.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 07, 2014, 11:39:38 am
Just for the sake of documentation, Wilshire and I checked and Kellhus leads the adunyani from Atrithau.

And he assumptively whips them across the Steppe to Cnaiur.

Hmm...

The adventures of Mekeritrig would be excellent as well.

Nin'janjin is probably a resident evil/silent hill monster at this point.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 07, 2014, 02:06:04 pm
What about a POV of an Intact seeing his compatriots become erratic. Or the same history, as told by an Erratic and an Intact.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wic on February 07, 2014, 04:34:01 pm
Moenghus, from leaving Cnaiur's tribe to being blinded.

The Inchoroi, after destroying the world before Earwa and determining where to go next.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 07, 2014, 04:50:28 pm
Moenghus, from leaving Cnaiur's tribe to being blinded.

Both suggestions are good, but I liked this one better. I forgot about Moe's who journey. I bet the inner workings of Ishual and the true history of the Dunyain would make a good story (or series of books).

The Inchoroi could easily be their own separate series of books. The rise of their civilization/species, leaving their home planet, discovery/making the IF, their quest for freedom, and their eventually demise on Earwa.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 07, 2014, 04:54:23 pm
One unfortunate thought is that Bakker has set the parameters of the Atrocity Tales; he's said he limits their breadth from Nonman Tutelage (555 Year-of-the-Tusk) to the First Holy War (4112 Year-of-the-Tusk). Alot of stories to be told, just not so many insights into Nonman culture.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 07, 2014, 06:11:33 pm
I didn't realize the Tutelage was at year 555. Oh well, so they were long past their prime but there is still plenty of opportunities. I believe that is before many of the Nonmen were considered Erratic.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 08, 2014, 02:36:25 am
- Parables of Sejenus
- Fane, Desert-Prophet
- White-Jihad of the Son
- Cenei, Aspect-Emperors of Old
- Converting Thunyeri Heathen
- The Legendary Campaign of Bribery and Assassination whereby King Eselos Mursidides stole Cironj from the Orthodox
Title: What stories would you like to see?
Post by: mrganondorf on February 10, 2014, 06:02:03 am
I have no idea if Bakker checks this forum at all, but it might be fun to float a wishlist of cool stories.  Here's mine:

1. An account of how the Consult killed the Mandate outpost in Atrithau.
2. A contigent of Scarlet Schoolman journey north to raid the Ark, are surprised by what they find.
3. A child of moe is born to a scylvendi woman and not killed, it grows up to be...
4. The dunyain 100 years in, debates over how to proceed, how much ruthlessness is desirable?
5. How a school goes about identifying and ensnaring children with the gift.
6. An Unholy Consult Christmas: sranc humping under the mistletoe, Aurang is out getting last minute presents, Aurax and Shauriatas are cooking a turkey abomination, the NG has legions of sranc wailing "we wish you a merry christmas," Mekeritrig reminisces about holiday atrocities of yore, Santa brings everyone innocents to rape and eat.
7. Awesome tales of sorcerous battles from the 1st and 2nd holy wars.
8. Tales about the other two gnostic schools besides Sohonc and Mangaecca.
9. Shaman tales--first sorcerer tales.
10. A story about the only woman in the Consult--there has to be one, right?  The Mangaecca could use a witch just like a sorcerer, right?  Right?
Title: Re: What stories would you like to see?
Post by: mrganondorf on February 10, 2014, 06:03:45 am
Goddamnit, posted ^this without reading everything already posted.  Apologies to all, erring in my haste.   :'(
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on February 10, 2014, 06:07:53 am
Just for the sake of documentation, Wilshire and I checked and Kellhus leads the adunyani from Atrithau.

And he assumptively whips them across the Steppe to Cnaiur.

Hmm...

The adventures of Mekeritrig would be excellent as well.

Nin'janjin is probably a resident evil/silent hill monster at this point.

Fucking hell, I want to know about Nin!!!  NoGod candidate?  Crammed in there with the head of Cinmoi and the body of whatshisname, Seswatha's student?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 10, 2014, 12:23:47 pm
Goddamnit, posted ^this without reading everything already posted.  Apologies to all, erring in my haste.   :'(

Simple fix, friend. I wish half the incoming community were as zealous as you ;).

EDIT:

Came to me when I was replying elsewhere.

1. An account of how the Consult killed the Mandate outpost in Atrithau.

4. The dunyain 100 years in, debates over how to proceed, how much ruthlessness is desirable?

I tried a rendition of one at Bakker's blog.

Four would be awesome. I still think that there is a Dunyain Nostrodamus and the Dunyain Pragma are just opening her missives at the appropriate times ;).
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on February 10, 2014, 10:10:38 pm
THANK YOU
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 11, 2014, 12:44:30 pm
I live to facilitate the great works of others :)).
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Cüréthañ on February 12, 2014, 06:08:11 am
Nau Cayuti's missus (Ieva) was kind of in the consult, ye?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 12, 2014, 11:17:13 am
It seems like the Consult promised to save her soul?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on February 12, 2014, 01:33:06 pm
Nau Cayuti's missus (Ieva) was kind of in the consult, ye?
It seems like the Consult promised to save her soul?
Yeah they made some kind of deal with her
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on February 13, 2014, 08:32:13 pm
I LIKE I LIKE--WANT TO SEE HER IN TUC
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: The Sharmat on February 21, 2014, 04:16:01 am
Though it has to be pointed out, Consult members have been known to lie before.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 21, 2014, 01:13:55 pm
Lol, I'm sure the Consult probably manipulated lots of people during the First Apocalypse, if they could get to Ieva and/or capture Aulisi, Nau-Cayuti's concubine. Probably all those "promised souls" aren't all chilling in the VIP lounge at Golgotterath.

By the way, and this is arbitrary as it's the first message of yours I responded to this morning, I'm not sure what has prompted your return but welcome back, The Sharmat. And in such form :).
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: The Sharmat on February 22, 2014, 06:29:45 am
I just got to thinking about the series again, and decided to take a peek. Had a lot to catch up on.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on February 22, 2014, 06:17:00 pm
It has been an interesting and fruitful time since SA v1.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on March 19, 2014, 04:14:32 pm
If the world doesn't die, it would be cool to eventually see some Atrocity Tales post-whatever.  Like if the Consult is finally destroyed, have a story about a wandering skin spy trying to find meaning while never being entirely free of its hard wiring.  Or the Consult is destroyed/2nd apocalypse prevented and a mandati/swayali goes on being tormented by the dreams.

Thinking about that, if Seswatha's heart goes on doing its thing, the Mandate/Swayal could go on using it as a tool to keep the monopoly on the gnosis (if consult gone, dunyain ascended/gone, gnosis not given away by kellhus).  AND THAT brings me to a cool idea--Kellhus defeats Consult then ascends without fulfilling his promise of giving gnosis to anagogic schools--new war between the schools!  ALL anagogics united against Mandate/Swayal.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on March 20, 2014, 09:24:34 am
Lol, I have to suppose that the Mandate/Swayal combo would win... but maybe the Anagogics could manage 10 to 1 odds.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on March 20, 2014, 04:35:12 pm
If we don't get it in the third set, we need a blow-by-blow account of the fall of Sauglish!
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on March 25, 2014, 12:44:59 pm
Apology accepted... This time.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on March 27, 2014, 11:06:38 pm
Apology accepted... This time.

I don't get it!

More tales I would like: tales of how certain people got into their exalted position:  Psatma, Maithanet, Old Moe, the story of Xerius' ascent and his father's assassination, the battles between Saubon and Conphas, and Fanayal on the run.

EDIT: Moar: tales of pre-swayali witches, encounters with the sranc for atrithau, sakarpus (those seiges), galeoth, zeum, scylvendi, an account of the scylvendi overwhelming momen
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on March 28, 2014, 11:56:48 am
Nice thoughts.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on April 01, 2014, 01:08:20 am
Madness--reading your Tale of Swayali right now and loving it!  It would be awesome if Bakker did more in this direction, particularly in the training of Serwa (influences by both Mandate and traditional witches) till the point she takes over the school and makes it her own, all before she is 15.  What a gal!
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on April 02, 2014, 01:32:57 am
Moar:

- story of Akka vs unnamed cishaurim
- Akka's travels in general (pre tdtcb)
- a swashbuckling mysunsai, han solo-type, working his/her way around the 3seas for gold and pleasure, pseudo-wizard is semi-autonomous from their own school and in hot water with someone all the time!
- some kind of minor school that is effectively the exclusive ninja equivalent of a socrcerous school, no pretensions to power, just zennish dedication to art and craft
- ^ this school pulling the seswatha heart trick, multiple times---founder, person A, dies and her/his heart is used for the grasping; B is the next greatest student, upon death their heart is used for the grasping; C dreams B's life and B dreaming A's life and so on.  Herbert style accumulation of knowledge into one person, creates the Kwizat

EDIT: another: a day in the life of a human concubine for a nonman
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: The Sharmat on May 14, 2014, 05:52:24 pm
It'd be interesting to me to see one of the Inchoroi's previous purges from the perspective of the guys getting purged but that might be redundant and predictable. I just want more Inchoroi.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Garet Jax on May 22, 2014, 02:53:45 pm
It'd be interesting to me to see one of the Inchoroi's previous purges from the perspective of the guys getting purged but that might be redundant and predictable. I just want more Inchoroi.

^ This.  I want POV from any of the Inchoroi pre-fall.  Just a couple pages worth would be good enough for me.

Give me more High Holy Zeum while we are at it!
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on May 22, 2014, 03:59:52 pm
Give me more High Holy Zeum while we are at it!
What have they been doing all these years, hiding behind their mountains and fortresses. Basically a whole continent unified by one rule for generations, and not pursuant in any major wars. That's a recipe for an pretty culturally and scientifically advanced civilization.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: SilentRoamer on May 22, 2014, 04:19:36 pm
Not sure if mentioned but I would love to see the breaking of the gates and also the presenting of the tusk from the Inchies.

Devious Inchi bastards!
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Garet Jax on May 22, 2014, 04:54:27 pm
Give me more High Holy Zeum while we are at it!
What have they been doing all these years, hiding behind their mountains and fortresses. Basically a whole continent unified by one rule for generations, and not pursuant in any major wars. That's a recipe for an pretty culturally and scientifically advanced civilization.

That is exactly what I have been thinking about them.  But my "voice of judgement" loves telling me otherwise.  I keep getting this nagging feeling that they have stagnated and just consider themselves and their achievements great.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: SilentRoamer on May 22, 2014, 07:31:22 pm
Imagine if the men over the mountains are the Inchies, they flew in a big circle cos they were too busy a'raping and a'killing and a'looking into the Invers Fire.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on May 27, 2014, 05:01:17 am
Not sure if mentioned but I would love to see the breaking of the gates and also the presenting of the tusk from the Inchies.

Devious Inchi bastards!

BUMP

This is a wonderful idea!  Written from Aurang's POV?  Or the Burnt Prophet?  The Burnt Prophet knows he has betrayed his people and his gods because...because...THE INCHOROI CAUGHT HIM
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Phallus Pendulus on May 30, 2014, 03:24:19 pm
I want to see how the hundred gods reacted to the Inchoroi. An epic battle between the vaginal Yatwer and the pendulous phallic Inchoroi would be great.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: SilentRoamer on May 30, 2014, 11:39:03 pm
Not sure if mentioned but I would love to see the breaking of the gates and also the presenting of the tusk from the Inchies.

Devious Inchi bastards!

BUMP

This is a wonderful idea!  Written from Aurang's POV?  Or the Burnt Prophet?  The Burnt Prophet knows he has betrayed his people and his gods because...because...THE INCHOROI CAUGHT HIM

I expect Bakker would troll us and give us the PoV of some not inconsequential but ultimately insgnificant tribesman. It could be gloriously tantalising though.

EDIT: That might all change with a big reveal in TUC.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on May 31, 2014, 05:47:09 pm
I want to see how the hundred gods reacted to the Inchoroi. An epic battle between the vaginal Yatwer and the pendulous phallic Inchoroi would be great.


Zoidberg: Don't stop, professor, I'm becoming aroused!
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on July 01, 2014, 03:50:58 am
- Dear Bakker, can we request stories from beyond Eanna?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on December 10, 2014, 03:36:15 am
So this happened and I had no idea!

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22819388-unveiled?from_search=true

here is the explanation for the cancellation

http://grimoakpress.com/2014/11/03/unveiled-is-cancelled/

what Bakker story are we missing???  :(
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Madness on December 10, 2014, 03:10:34 pm
Quote from: Post Title (http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/post-title/)
About the only things I’ve completed are “The Knife of Many Hands,” a short-story set in Carythusal on the eve of the Scholastic Wars, which Grimdark Magazine is set to publish, likely in two parts, sometime in the near future. And I’ve also completed “A Crack in the Wall” for a fantasy anthology of stories taking the antagonist’s POV, though the story is so bizarre I really have no idea whether they’ll still want it!

Hidden in plain sight, MG ;). Probably this.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Aural on December 10, 2014, 06:54:20 pm
Hmm... I wonder if Bakker's story is the reason the entire book was cancelled.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on January 04, 2015, 06:15:48 am
Hmm... I wonder if Bakker's story is the reason the entire book was cancelled.

oh god, i wonder what level of obscenity tanks a whole book?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on January 04, 2015, 04:42:11 pm
Doesn't mean we won't ever see it. Maybe one day, if we never forget, we can remind him to publish it.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Aural on January 05, 2015, 09:20:22 pm
If it’s bizarro and written from an antagonist’s PoV, I wonder if it’s an Inchoroi PoV. That’s assuming that it’s set in Eärwa.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on January 06, 2015, 12:08:44 am
Could be, but I think Bakker mentioned on his blog that is was some kind of barbarian type character? ..... I should probably just check the TPB post :P
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Aural on January 06, 2015, 12:13:13 am
The barbarian character is the one in Knife of Many Hands, right?
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on January 06, 2015, 02:40:22 pm
This is all I could find

Quote
Post Title (http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/post-title/)
About the only things I’ve completed are “The Knife of Many Hands,” a short-story set in Carythusal on the eve of the Scholastic Wars, which Grimdark Magazine is set to publish, likely in two parts, sometime in the near future. And I’ve also completed “A Crack in the Wall” for a fantasy anthology of stories taking the antagonist’s POV, though the story is so bizarre I really have no idea whether they’ll still want it!

And yeah KomH's main character is a barbarian. I'm sure somewhere else he mentions something about an anti-Conan character, but I couldn't find it in that post or the comments below.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Aural on January 06, 2015, 03:41:33 pm
He said in the latest post that KomH is a Conan homage.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Wilshire on January 06, 2015, 03:46:23 pm
Oh, that is what I was think of then... bad memory.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: The Sharmat on February 02, 2015, 08:05:13 am
Zeum may actually fit the "huge empire with no real rivals becomes stagnant" archetype, sadly. They apparently don't have the architectural concept of the arch. Which is something the Three Seas has had for a long time.

oh god, i wonder what level of obscenity tanks a whole book?
If it had an Inchoroi PoV...obscenity stacked to the heavens. Thousands of years of the stuff.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on February 11, 2015, 05:34:50 am
Zeum may actually fit the "huge empire with no real rivals becomes stagnant" archetype, sadly. They apparently don't have the architectural concept of the arch. Which is something the Three Seas has had for a long time.

oh god, i wonder what level of obscenity tanks a whole book?
If it had an Inchoroi PoV...obscenity stacked to the heavens. Thousands of years of the stuff.

i wonder if Zeum just seems that way.  maybe when you zoom in, Zeum is like Nilnamesh and it fights with itself sometimes and also sometimes with the sranc.  we didn't even know about the Vokalati before TJE, maybe Zeum has all kinds of details that would practically divide it into a more dynamic mix than the big Z blob on the map
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: SilentRoamer on June 05, 2015, 05:42:30 pm
ok well i posted a new thread about a topic I had already responded to! Anyways my ideas:

Some Sorcerous Battle between different schools in roughly PoN era.
Some Serwa scene where we see a seemingly stable half Dunyain PoV.
Something creepy involving cute little Kel.
Meppa going torrential.
Definetely something from the past ages, like The Breaking of the Gates or the early Cunoroi-Inchoroi wars.
The presenting of the tusk to Men.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on August 09, 2015, 08:04:01 pm
ok well i posted a new thread about a topic I had already responded to! Anyways my ideas:

Some Sorcerous Battle between different schools in roughly PoN era.
Some Serwa scene where we see a seemingly stable half Dunyain PoV.
Something creepy involving cute little Kel.
Meppa going torrential.
Definetely something from the past ages, like The Breaking of the Gates or the early Cunoroi-Inchoroi wars.
The presenting of the tusk to Men.

that would be awesome!

i would like to see a detailed account of the fall of Sil, the fight at Cil-Aujus (Gin'yursis is so badass, must have No-God kryptonite), an inchoroi/nonwoman love story, more about Vokaliti/Carindusu, and a tale about an emwama who actually kills the dragon
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: Garet Jax on August 17, 2015, 02:47:17 pm
Not sure if this counts, but this came up while H and I were talking in Quorum.


I would love to see a short story on how Lord Kosoter becomes Clerics Elju.
Title: Re: Speculative Atrocity Tales
Post by: mrganondorf on August 30, 2015, 05:43:25 pm

Not sure if this counts, but this came up while H and I were talking in Quorum.


I would love to see a short story on how Lord Kosoter becomes Clerics Elju.

That would be awesome! Could be cool to have a broken stream of consciousness thing like the 4 Revelations about Cleric's Eljus through the centuries.

I think it would be cool if some great personage from 3 seas history got there power via secret ishroi--like Triamis or someone