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Messages - Moosehunter

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16
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Ranking the books after TUC
« on: August 01, 2017, 10:45:45 am »
The original series as a whole is still unparalleled imho. However.

TWP
TTT
TWLW
TDTCB
TGO
TUC
TJE

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The Unholy Consult / Re: What was the point - Spoilers
« on: July 26, 2017, 11:59:53 am »
2/3 of the way through the story would be my reminder.

Personally I loved the last book, my favourite of the series so far.

I loved it too Merchant but it's completely different than all the others in that it's really the end of the TGO.
I felt the build up to the action was missing when really the previous book was the build up.
The plains of Agongorea were horrifically awesome. The descriptions of the Incu-Holinas were excellent and really helped me visualize the enormity of the Ark. I like to think of that scene in Star Wars TFA when Rey is standing there with the downed Star Destroyer in the desert background, and imagine that the Ark is there. Larger. Majestic. The closest thing to Hell on Earwa.

18
The Unholy Consult / Re: What was the point - Spoilers
« on: July 26, 2017, 09:34:35 am »
A decade of real life waiting and in the last 30 pages the author pissed the whole lot up the wall its just a generic "LOL bad guys win and all the good guys die LOLOL"

Im being very black and white about this but and stripping all the philosophy out to get to the root of the story, the whole exercise was pointless.
Nothing was resolved. Its just an unsatisfying, cliche resumption of the status quo.

7 book and 10 years can be boiled down to two words - dont matter
A beautifully complex world collapsing into a pile of "K Nope"

What am i missing here?

Well first of all i'm not sure that there are any "Good Guys".

Man is a horrible, brutal race. Selected by the Inchoroi when roaming in Eanna to essentially be another weaponized race. They were manipulated through the use of the Tusk and the subversion of their religion, to attack and destroy the great Nonman civilization.
The Nonmen, although cultured and accomplished, were also fairly brutal in their own right. They took the early tribes of man on this side of the Great Kayarsus  and whelmed them. The Emwanna became a somewhat mentally retarded and servile race through selective breeding.

But back to man. There is not a character in the book that is objectively "good". Even those who view themselves as devout (pure, religious, good) are in fact little more than fanatics who have chosen to concentrate their passions in a particular direction. Proyas has slaughtered Orthodox for their lack of faith in his false prophet. Esmenet has sentenced many to die in her role as Empress of the Three Seas.

Mimara is about the closest i have seen to a good person and she seduced an old man for gain, using her likeness to his only love.

Essentially the books seem to be a harsher reflection of our own reality. No person is any one thing. We are all both good and bad to some degree. We are all selfish. We are all generous. We love and we hate.

I would argue that the books are about "The End Justifies The Means".

This last book felt a little dissatisfying (taken on it's own) but if you combine it with TGO and read both directly after one another it is a fantastic read.
There are at least 2 books to go (i would imagine). Moenghus is king of the Scylvendi and has an intact host ready to fight a retreat across the north. Zeum has been mentioned a lot more in recent books and is now coming into the fray (i hope). Kellhus is possibly still in play but is potentially the biggest bad of all. Crabicus is out in the wild. Imperial forces were gathering in Sumna. And who the hell knows what will come out of the east. I find it strange that Bakker went to all the trouble of leaving one tribe out there. One that rejected the Tusk and thus was not manipulated by the Vile.

And lastly, Acha, Esmenet and Mimara are alive. Possibly Kayutas too.

19
That second one captured the moment just perfectly.

20
It also means the blood of the House Primordial (or whatever the Royal line of Siol is) is still present i believe.

21
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 19, 2017, 12:18:19 pm »
Ah what the hell...............he's the Ciphrang Head sent to Zeum.


22
I apologize if it is already known but i certainly didn't, or at least missed it somehow.

In The Great Ordeal, Oinaral brings Sorwheel to the great elevator in the centre of Ishterebinth.
This is piloted by the Most Ancient Warrior. A Nonman by the name of Mirimhiras who tends to the Erratic and Tall by feeding them swine.

“There is no speaking on the Mere,” Oinaral said, still reckoning what he had done. “If you speak on the Mere, Morimhira will kill you.”

When i was looking through the glossary at the end of The Unholy Consult i noticed the entry for Morimhira:

"Morimhira (?—)—The oldest of the Nonmen to be rendered immortal by the Inoculation. The elder brother of Cu’huriol, Morimhira gained fame for refusing to accept the Seal of the House Primordial, dooming his younger brother to be King instead, and so delivering his race to the folly of Cu’jara Cinmoi. According to legend, he believed himself too bloodthirsty—and true to this appraisal, lived a life of near continuous war and slaughter. His age relative to his appearance was already a marvel ere he received the Inoculation. When he alone, out of all the elders, survived, he became known as the Most Ancient Warrior—for he was indeed the oldest Nonman living."


I love the depth in Bakkers works. You must work for every little revelation with so little spoon fed to you. I think i have learned more on this sub and through the glossary than i ever did on a first read of any book in the series.

I also thought it was extremely cool that both the youngest and most ancient Nonmen were together on this occasion.

Again, apologies if this was already known.




EDIT: I added the Spoiler tag to the tread title, just in case. -H


23
The Unholy Consult / Re: TUC Official Buys
« on: July 05, 2017, 03:54:01 pm »
Just got fed up waiting until tomorrow for my book.

Went to Amazon.com.au and registered an address there (it's the 6th there yay)
Bought the kindle version and logged back to co.uk.

And now my slog begins............

24
The Unholy Consult / Re: TUC Official Buys
« on: June 29, 2017, 08:41:56 am »
My kindle purchase of TUC has been pushed back to July 25th. Fuck this shit.

Get it from uk amazon, i can give out some addresses if you guys need them, then change it back. I did the same when UK getting it later. but with canadian amazon

I always use the address and phone number for a small public library if i'm buying from another country. Very handy if you don't have someone letting you use their address.

25
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Ordeal logistics and planning
« on: June 23, 2017, 01:05:31 pm »
I imagine Kellhus and his ProbTrance, plus Imperial planners, came up with the minimum amount of sorcerers / warriors needed to take down Golg. and the Consult.
I'm not so sure about that. Golgotterath and its resources are pretty unknown. I think they were more likely to try and maximize everything so that they got the most possible to the gates. Schoolmen first, obviously, the more the better, soldiers second. An optimal solution for that equation probably goes something like: the more schoolmen that live, the less risky they are in the field, the more soldiers will die - but if the schoolmen are too cautious and too many soldiers die, then all of them die as well.

Then, calculate how big the host, that is the Ordeal, should be, in order to ensure this minimum amount completes the journey and their mission.
I love the section in TJE where they talk about all the logistics planning. Basically 20 years to assemble all the food and infrastructure behind sending an army across the world.

Yet, how would Kellhus have enough info to arrive at these numbers?

I mean, has he or someone else done some extensive reconnaissance / fact-finding?

The imperial trackers, for one. They spent a lot of time sending out people to meticulously map out the land as far as they could go. Not all the way to Golgotterath, but they got pretty far.
All the scalpers pushing back the sranc would have helped some as well.
Ancient Mandate texts - IIRC Kellhus spent some time going through their entire library trying to glean every piece of information about his foe that he could.
Kellhus himself probably did some hopping around too.

But like I said above, I don't they they were really solving the equation for a minimum, but a maximum. The max food they could carry, the max causalities they could suffer, the max attrition, etc. etc. They may have come up with a minimum they thought they needed, but really, their goal would have been to get the max forces their possible.


I completely agree with your assessment that they were trying to bring the maximum possible force to bear against Golgotterath.
When you consider that Kelhus left but one schoolman and very limited armies behind. I would argue just enough to stop it all coming apart while the Ordeal was within communication and supply reach of the Empire. Maithanet is aware that the Empire is expected to collapse and imparts this to Esmenet.

I'm unsure why the Ordeal is considered the greatest force ever assembled however. I think the Holy War was around 340K on the Inrithi side. The Kianiane probably had something similar. It must be because of the sheer number of Schools in attendance.

26
General Earwa / Re: Here goes ...
« on: May 04, 2017, 09:01:19 pm »
Shit Moose, yes Conphas in TTT I believe. To teach him a lesson. Thanks for the correction.

I didn't mean for it to sound like a correction. I actually thought i may have missed something and that's always a concern with this series.

Thanks for the welcomes guys. I have stopped by and lurked many times over the years and find here is the only place to really get in depth discussion (and wild conspiracies) online.

This is actually my favourite series of all time and i wish someone would do a youtube channel like Secrets of the Citadel (ASOIAF) for our friends in Earwa.
I cannot wait for TUC and many of the answers we have been seeking. At the same time i hope we don't get everything. This world works because we have actually learned so little and had to really earn what we have.

27
General Earwa / Re: Here goes ...
« on: May 04, 2017, 03:33:12 pm »
TH, we are indeed kindred spirits. I've mentioned many times on this forum about when the sorcerers stepped into the skies at that same point as horrifying. It was the first time reading a book that I got scared. Scared isn't the right word though, it definitely made me know I was reading something truly different.

So many parts of the book touch a part of your soul and it sticks. The epilogue of TWP when they are questioning about "WHO ARE THE DUNYAIN?", is gut wrenching. When Cnaüir rapes Proyas, I was at once jubilant and sick to my stomach. Bakker is like no other author I've ever read, point blank. It makes finding something to read quite the challenge.

Cnauir raped Proyas?

I remember him raping Conphas and i remember Kelhus raping Proyas. Tell me i haven't missed something that important.

Ah, thank you! I've already pre-ordered/paid for my copy from Amazon, says it's being released in July.

Not to get all sappy on everyone - but Bakker's descriptions of the "first" apocalypse have effected me, his description of horror is so much more powerful than anything I've read, including Herbert and Simmons, which screams a lot. The dragons dropping from the skies, snatching up humans was really horrifying to me. This idea of humans being so defenseless to something not human ... at risk of exposing my species conceit, but it's unnatural. Bakker takes the next step of a species overwhelming us, not just a mono a mono fight ( like a single human with no tools/weapons being overcome by a tiger for example ), but all of humanity, "naked", before something so powerful. And the terribleness of magic ( that fight with the Slvendi in the first book was just frightening, imagining people "walking" into the sky with the light shining out of the mouths and eyes ) - the mass MURDER of such a thing. This is the most plausible take on fantasy I've read - for dragons and magic would be the stuff of horror, not some interesting cool thing. Other books have people riding dragons and teaching magic in schools to children ... no ... it would be a fucked up nightmare.

I too have never felt horror in the way Bakker imparts it to us.

When facing the Sranc, mankind is aware that if they lose they won't just die. They will die screaming while being mated with in every orifice and wound.
It's a horrific thought and the end of  TWP (I think) has always stuck with me. The men of the tribe kneeling on the ground while the Sranc (and Aurang)are defiling their loved ones...........knowing they are next.

I also really felt the horror of the Non-Men was portrayed extremely effectively in TGO. Living with the knowledge that you have forgotten all that you had once loved. Your choices to remain ignorant or to perpetrate some horrific act in order to remember your past (and thus no longer being that which you remember). The carvings and sculptures on every surface of the Mansion, depicting great deeds but between every epic scene were thousands of images of small and intimate family moments.

It's no accident that Bakker knows how to press our buttons given his primary occupation.

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