[TUC Spoilers] Kelmomas, Nau-Cayuti and causality

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Wilshire

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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2018, 04:57:22 pm »
I don't think Akka Jr. will be of much interest from a plot perspective, but I could be wrong.
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2018, 05:09:10 pm »
I don't think Akka Jr. will be of much interest from a plot perspective, but I could be wrong.

Probably not, given the timeline we have stated out for TNG. I'm still curious because as far as we know, he's the only character whose parents are both of the Few, and I really wanted to know how that would work out.
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2018, 05:16:29 pm »
Akka wasn't born with the ability to see the Onta.

Considering how tied to language sorcery is, it wouldn't surprise me if the abilities of the Few manifested themselves with the maturation of the language part of the brain.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

TaoHorror

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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2018, 10:52:52 pm »
I don't think Akka Jr. will be of much interest from a plot perspective, but I could be wrong.

I think it could - me thinks the baby being born in Golgotterath is significant beyond metaphor.
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2018, 11:13:10 pm »
I think it could - me thinks the baby being born in Golgotterath is significant beyond metaphor.

How so? (not disagreeing, just curious)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

TaoHorror

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« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2018, 02:15:06 am »
I think it could - me thinks the baby being born in Golgotterath is significant beyond metaphor.

How so? (not disagreeing, just curious)

I don't know what exactly, but the mountain of description of the dread of the place, nothing grows there, etc - seems it would have an impact on the newborn of some kind. I know this was vetted as incorrect in another thread, but I'm sticking with my original read that the second baby was stillborn as TNG kicked in between births. The whole thing seems dripping with significance beyond now they have a child and race away for their lives.
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2018, 07:51:48 am »
If the No-God series is going to be the new Sagas, then we need to consider it potentially spanning years in-universe. It was twelve years last time an Apocalypse happened, as far as I remember.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 02:16:11 pm by SmilerLoki »

ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2018, 12:04:52 pm »
I don't know what exactly, but the mountain of description of the dread of the place, nothing grows there, etc - seems it would have an impact on the newborn of some kind. I know this was vetted as incorrect in another thread, but I'm sticking with my original read that the second baby was stillborn as TNG kicked in between births. The whole thing seems dripping with significance beyond now they have a child and race away for their lives.

I see, it could end up being the case. You never know.
I think the timing with the birth of the second baby was never definitely proven as happening before the No-God's activation. So that doesn't completely disprove your theory.


If the No-God series is going to be the new Sagas, than we need to consider it potentially spanning years in-universe. It was twelve years last time an Apocalypse happened, as far as I remember.

Very true. I had been thinking so much about how TNG is going to begin a few weeks after the end of TUC that I forgot to think beyond that.
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
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"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Wilshire

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« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2018, 02:06:20 pm »
I think it could - me thinks the baby being born in Golgotterath is significant beyond metaphor.

How so? (not disagreeing, just curious)

I don't know what exactly, but the mountain of description of the dread of the place, nothing grows there, etc - seems it would have an impact on the newborn of some kind. I know this was vetted as incorrect in another thread, but I'm sticking with my original read that the second baby was stillborn as TNG kicked in between births. The whole thing seems dripping with significance beyond now they have a child and race away for their lives.

I don't mean to say the child isn't extremely important form a world-building perspective. Just that given what Bakker has said about the start of the next book being weeks after we left off, and that the other book will be the Crabikiad, I think the baby will just be a baby.

If there is a post-TNG world with significant time jumps, or I guess if TNG itself includes time jumps to make the baby a relevant age, then it'll be extremely important. I'm just not sure that in the limited timeline that I think is going to be TNG, that the baby will be old enough to be vital to the plot.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 02:15:04 pm by Wilshire »
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2018, 03:56:38 pm »
I think it could - me thinks the baby being born in Golgotterath is significant beyond metaphor.

How so? (not disagreeing, just curious)

I don't know what exactly, but the mountain of description of the dread of the place, nothing grows there, etc - seems it would have an impact on the newborn of some kind. I know this was vetted as incorrect in another thread, but I'm sticking with my original read that the second baby was stillborn as TNG kicked in between births. The whole thing seems dripping with significance beyond now they have a child and race away for their lives.

I don't mean to say the child isn't extremely important form a world-building perspective. Just that given what Bakker has said about the start of the next book being weeks after we left off, and that the other book will be the Crabikiad, I think the baby will just be a baby.

If there is a post-TNG world with significant time jumps, or I guess if TNG itself includes time jumps to make the baby a relevant age, then it'll be extremely important. I'm just not sure that in the limited timeline that I think is going to be TNG, that the baby will be old enough to be vital to the plot.

Maybe - Bakker did say this next series will be "discovery" writing, so he could change his mind on what he's said in Q&A. I still feel sick I couldn't join while he was live here, I hadn't finished the book by then.
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« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2018, 04:07:09 pm »
Baby is of the utmost importance. Last child born before the rise of the No-God. I don't find it likely, but the baby Kellhus theory does stand on its own two feet.

I think that we will see a redemption of mankind. I don't thinknthe baby will matter much in that, but will be utterly important to the future of Earwa.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2018, 04:18:33 pm »
Was the "two weeks after TUC" something he said here? He must have reiterated it at ZDC. On that note, at ZDC he definitely was unsure of the exact style of at least one of the TNG books, so its very possible it ends up being very much like an Earwan-Contemporary Sagas, and actually covers the entirety of Resumption up through to the end of the world (or the descrution of the NG/Consult, however it goes).
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2018, 05:11:03 pm »
I don't mean to say the child isn't extremely important form a world-building perspective. Just that given what Bakker has said about the start of the next book being weeks after we left off, and that the other book will be the Crabikiad, I think the baby will just be a baby.

If there is a post-TNG world with significant time jumps, or I guess if TNG itself includes time jumps to make the baby a relevant age, then it'll be extremely important. I'm just not sure that in the limited timeline that I think is going to be TNG, that the baby will be old enough to be vital to the plot.

He doesn't even need to get to adolescence or adulthood to actually play an important role as a character. In TAE we had 8-year-old Kelmomas play a major role. Granted, Akka Jr. isn't Dûnyain or even half-Dûnyain, but there's still the unknown effects qirri might have had on him while in the womb...


Baby is of the utmost importance. Last child born before the rise of the No-God. I don't find it likely, but the baby Kellhus theory does stand on its own two feet.

I think that we will see a redemption of mankind. I don't thinknthe baby will matter much in that, but will be utterly important to the future of Earwa.

Playing devil's advocate/being nitpicky here, we don't know if he was the very last born before the No-God rose. Eärwa is a big place, after all... (Please don't take this as a slight on your theory, MSJ, I'm just pointing out this possibility.)
But yes, it's possible the symbolism of the birth might have relevance in the future.


Was the "two weeks after TUC" something he said here? He must have reiterated it at ZDC. On that note, at ZDC he definitely was unsure of the exact style of at least one of the TNG books, so its very possible it ends up being very much like an Earwan-Contemporary Sagas, and actually covers the entirety of Resumption up through to the end of the world (or the descrution of the NG/Consult, however it goes).

Did Bakker actually specified "two weeks" as opposed to a more vague "a few weeks"? I can't even remember what was said about that back in July/August anymore...
It's definitely possible he will change his plans on the outline/timeline of TNG, or at least concerning the non-Crabicus part of it.
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-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2018, 01:39:07 pm »
The whole thing seems dripping with significance beyond now they have a child and race away for their lives.

Kelmomas was a jarring reminder of families and home for the Ordeal at the Last Whelming. I'm sure a newborn could serve as potent motivation for the retreating Ordeal.

Was the "two weeks after TUC" something he said here?

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