[TGO SPOILERS] Saubon: Battle of Mengedda (TWP) & the Battle at Dagliash (TGO)

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The Sharmat

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« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2016, 01:58:07 am »
When did we learn that?

JRControl

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« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 04:43:44 am »
You know Bakker, he just casually dropped that info during the Author Q&A bit we had on the forum not long ago.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

The Sharmat

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« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2016, 05:48:11 am »
I wish he wouldn't do that. Not only is it potentially spoilery but it opens a huge can of worms if he later decides that it's not a good idea and does something else.

Cnaiur is gonna make a hell of a ciphrang though.

Monkhound

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« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2016, 06:11:01 am »
I wish he wouldn't do that. Not only is it potentially spoilery but it opens a huge can of worms if he later decides that it's not a good idea and does something else.

Y'know, like mentioning en passant the Tusk is an Inchoroi gift to the 5 Tribes during a Q&A session.
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Cynical Cat

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« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2016, 07:14:45 am »
I wish he wouldn't do that. Not only is it potentially spoilery but it opens a huge can of worms if he later decides that it's not a good idea and does something else.

Y'know, like mentioning en passant the Tusk is an Inchoroi gift to the 5 Tribes during a Q&A session.

To be fair at least that one has come up, albeit indirectly and in the last book.  And Mimara does see Cnaiur with horns.  And now I see Ironsoul and Cnaiur with horns and wings, brofisting each other in hell.

The Sharmat

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« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2016, 07:17:15 am »
I somehow missed Mimara seeing horns on Cnaiur in the judging eye.

Cynical Cat

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« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2016, 11:08:22 am »
I somehow missed Mimara seeing horns on Cnaiur in the judging eye.

It's part of one of the lines describing his damnation.  It's actually more supportive than that.  Page 479:  "The great black figure regards him, horned and smoking, and yet already a Prince of Hell."

Being so damned that one becomes a demon in hell isn't supportive of reincarnation theories, but doesn't rule out reincarnation if at the end of cycle of reward/punishment and transformation.  It is still, in my opinion, a reach based on the sources and the inspirations for the sources but there's a few mysteries regarding the Outside that have yet to be revealed.

Madness

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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2016, 01:03:02 am »
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet - except I think once on Westeros - is that "The soul that encounters Him ... passes no further" (TWP, p172) from Achamian to Saubon.

What if Saubon hasn't actually been taken by Hell...
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JRControl

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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2016, 01:36:54 am »
I hope that means we'll get to see an Inrilitas based Ciphrang somehow. Sure he died young, but he started super early too.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

The Sharmat

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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2016, 05:34:27 am »
Maybe he was on to something with that resembling the God nonsense and is having fun as a prince of Hell now instead of getting chewed by ciphrang constantly?

JRControl

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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2016, 05:43:06 am »
I hope Kellhus goes to bail him out and he screams "IT'S NOT A PHASE DAD!"
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

SkiesOfAzel

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« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2016, 01:12:07 pm »
Some thoughts i'd like to add.

Kellhus and the Dunyain in general thing themselves as places when they are meditating. There are examples of that in the first trilogy. When young Kellhus was first conditioned by the Pragma in order to control the legion within, he was referring to himself as a place. He was doing the same think before entering a probability trance. As far as the Logos is concerned, a place, unlike a person, is impartial. But according to the metaphysics of Earwa, a person is a place where the outside is looking in.

The interesting thing about the metaphysical part is that time in the outside is perceived all at once. So what happens with Saubon makes perfect sense. Saubon dies, he is turned inside out (his inside, his soul goes to the outside). The POM are a topos and thus partially in the outside as well. So Saubon, being now in the outside, has access to all time (as perceived by the God of Gods) and thus access to the time when he was at the POM.

The difference in time perception between the outside and the inside (physical word) is one of the if not the most important factor that shapes the metaphysics of Earwa. It even explains how divine judgement can be shaped by belief without actually changing at all.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 11:48:53 am by SkiesOfAzel »