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Messages - Bertxi

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Best bits of the Great Ordeal.
« on: July 20, 2016, 04:28:44 pm »
Ishterebinth hands down, the holy deep as a way to hide from the gods, knowing that Nonman kings were descended from a line/person, confirmation of the tall, and the resigned way the last Siqu knew his race was finally dead and he sacrified himself so his  father would remember himself.

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The Great Ordeal / [TGO Spoilers] Kelhus
« on: July 20, 2016, 04:19:02 pm »
I almost feel sorry for Kelhus in a way now, he goes back to Momen because he does truely care for Esmenent; albiet a Dunyains love is fish cold, and as soon as he arrives that first look at her face and he realizes what she had done and what she hopes to do. His brother killed, two children dead and a wife that wants him dead. And this is all before he will most assuradly look upon Kelmomas' face......(though im betting Ajokli will shield his favorite toy).

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Prince of Hate
« on: July 15, 2016, 10:48:15 pm »
Nil'Giccas had been a paragon of the Nonmen before falling to the dolour and becoming Cleric, most likely Mimara saw him as damned because of his mark and the treatment of the Emwama over hids thousands of years of life......the Breaker of Horses and Men, not such a great guy after being Dunyain mind fucked.

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The Great Ordeal / [TGO Spoilers] Kelmomas Prophecy
« on: July 15, 2016, 10:42:03 pm »
Since the start of the AE series we have seen a remarkable change to Achimians dreams of the first Apocalypse. Starting with him dreaming mundane aspects of Seswathas life, to dreaming of the map of Ishual which turned out to be true and seemed to validate the authenticity of his dreams thus far. Towards the end of TGO, Achiamian dreams of the death and following prophecy uttered by Kelmomas II; but he sees Kelhus striding towards Kelmomas as the prophecy is spoken as if Kelhus is the god that Kelmomas thinks is giving him the prophecy. If true, it seemes as if Kelhus is currently or has been able to view time as the gods do; now i wonder if at the end of the TTT that when Kelhus told Achiamian that,  "The next time that you see me you will kneel", like he already knew what would happen.
,

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The Great Ordeal / Re: TGO Official Buys
« on: July 10, 2016, 04:24:09 pm »
My local b&n relessed it on the 5th....even thiugh Amazon still has a july 12th release date. Paid nesrly double to already finish it before the Amazon release.

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General Earwa / Inchoroi Gods
« on: March 21, 2014, 04:43:25 am »
I don’t know if this has been brought up before, but after re-reading both series, atrocity tales, and Bakkers interviews it seems to me that the Three Seas gods are not their own. They are instead either the Inchoroi’s which they have brought with them world to world, or something that the Inchoroi planted in the 5 Tribes of Men and belief created them. If we look at the Interview Bakker did with Pat, Bakker seems to confirm parts of this.

Pat-Were there ever Nonmen in Eänna? And if not, why not? They certainly seem to have had both the time, capability and inclination for an invasion before the Inchoroi showed up. Instead they just fortified the passes. Why?
Bakker-…When the Inchoroi began using Men to master the Aporos and produce the first Chorae; they gave the first sorcery-destroying spheres to the Sranc, only to discover that the creatures were far too reckless. Having fixed and morbid habits of ornamentation, the Sranc rarely valued the spheres, and were thus prone to lose them. So the Inchoroi began giving them to the Men of Eärwa, hoping to incite them to rebellion. But the Halaroi had no stomach for rousing a feared, and most importantly, absent master, and so rendered the deadly gifts to their Nonmen overlords. The Inchoroi then looked to Eänna, where the Men were both more fierce and more naive. They gave the Chorae to the Five Tribes as gifts, and to one tribe, the black-haired Ketyai, they gave a great tusk inscribed with their hallowed laws and most revered stories–as well as one devious addition: the divine imperative to invade the ‘Land of the Felled Sun’ and hunt down and exterminate the ‘False Men.’

And in the Appendence in the TTT we have, “The Chronicle of the Tusk, which records the coming of Men to Eärwa, generally refers to Nonmen as Oserukki, the “Not Us.” In the Book of Tribes, the Prophet Angeshraël alternately refers to them as “the Accursed Ones” and “the sodomite Kings of Eärwa,” and he incites the Four Nations of Men to embark on a holy war of extermination. Even after four millennia, this xenocidal mission remains a part of the Inrithi holy canon. According to the Tusk, the Nonmen are anathema:

Hearken, for this the God has said,
These False Men offend Me;
blot out all mark of their Passing.”


From this we can guess that either the Prophet Angeshraël is really the Inchoroi Aurax in disguise or he met with Aurax on Mount Eshki before he lowered his face into the fire. But it’s the fact that he is giving the 5 Tribes their “Most hallowed stories” and not this devious addition that is intriguing. From the books, we know that the Tusk is stories about the gods of the world and how to properly worship them, so does that make the gods of the Three Seas the gods of the Inchoroi? And if they are the gods of the Inchoroi do they truly ever worship them because it doesn’t seem like they do anymore.

What makes this even more plausible is the fact that before Kian was defeated by the First Holy war, they had declared several Jihads to conquer the Nansur Empire and to destroy the Rouk Spara, or “Cursed Thorn” which they call the Tusk. The central tenets of Fanimry deal with the solitary nature and transcendence of the God, the falseness of the Hundred Gods (who are considered demons by the Fanim), the repudiation of the Tusk as unholy, and the prohibition of all representations of the God.

Bakker further says in his interview with Pat, “…Damnation is not local. There is a right and wrong way to believe in Eärwa, which means that entire nations will be damned. Since the question of just who will be saved and who will be damned is a cornerstone of The Aspect-Emperor’s plot, there’s not much more that I can say.”

This gets more intriguing when you consider the exchange between Aurang and Titirga in the False Sun.

But Aurang continued his shining scrutiny of Titirga. A transgression that Shaeönanra found unnerving.
“Do you not fear damnation?”
A careful look from the Hero-Mage.
“The Nonmen…” he said evenly. “They have taught us how to hide our Voices. How to bypass the Outside, find Oblivion.”
Eyes like bladders of ink, each reflecting the tripods across their shining curve. The fluting of gill-tissues along the neck. “You worship the spaces between the Gods…”
“Yes.”
A rasp like the screams of faraway children tangled in the wind. Inchoroi laughter. “You are already damned. All of you are already damned. “
“So say you.”
A deep chested rumble. Popping mucous. “So says the Inverse Fire.”


Aurang could very well be implying here that the two surviving Inchoroi did indeed worship the gods. Or maybe they were not even real gods until the Inchoroi gave the Tusk to the 5 Tribes, and the 5 Tribes belief in the stories made the gods real since it seems that belief can shape reality in Earwa. 






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The White-Luck Warrior / Dunyain Weakness
« on: November 27, 2013, 07:10:38 am »
I find it hard to dismiss the feeling that Bakker is leading up to a very big hook coming off stage right to grab Kellhus and gaffle him. Sprinkled throughout TJE, and TWLW, we have examples of Dunyain fallibility, and the general contempt for the “world born men”.  Maithanet’s miscalculation regarding Esmenet regarding Kellhus’ own reasons for giving her the command of the New Empire, Maithanet not fully realizing what a monster Kelmomas was/is, Kellhus reading Sorwell’s face incorrectly due to his god masking, Inrilates incorrectly thinking that he could kill Maithanet, Kayutas and Serwa not guessing the fact that the consult might attack them from the rear when they both should know about the hording tendencies of the Sranc. There is also the question if Kellhus knew that the army of the South would be annihilated, and had already calculated that into his Thousand Fold Thought.  All the half Dunyain seem to having glaring weakness due to their feelings of superiority, and it seems to reason that Kellhus, who now seems to believe that he is something more, would share this too. If his objectivity is damaged, then wouldn’t his conclusions reached through his Thousand Fold Thought be flawed as well? He might very well be setting into motion the very thing that he set out to stop, because he just doesn’t understand the Consult, the No-God, or believes incorrectly that he has been truly sent to save the human race.

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