The Olympics 2018

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MSJ

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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 01:40:45 pm »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
Wow, so judgmental. Playing a video game competitively requires both a lot of mechanical skill and mental skill.

Agreed, 100%. But, do you notice the key word you left out? Physical. Sports are physical, and require tons of physical training. Video games dont require that and shouldnt be considered a sport a will never be part of the Olympics. And they shouldnt. Its not judgmental, its fact

ETA: i am not being judgmental. Im stating facts as to what constitutes a real sport. I think the eSports tournaments you guys mentioned is great. I agree, it takes great mental and hand-eye coordination to be at that level. And, even though i wont buy my children a play system til they're a little older and established in "sports" and physical activity, or anything that gets them out the house and active, i think they can have poaitive effects on their minds. So ling as they dont forgoe physical activity for setting in their rooms 24/7 playing games. Sorry, Tleilaxu, i have differrent priorities for my kids. And, physical activity is way up on that list along with schooling.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 01:50:43 pm by MSJ »
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Wilshire

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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 02:12:17 pm »
Physical activity? What about Darts? Bowling? Curling? How about ping-pong?

What, then, of VR games, or games like those on the Wii that have a little remote and require you to stand and swing your arm?

How much physical activity crosses the threshold to be deemed worthy of the vaunted title of 'sport'?
Shooting events are considered sports but most of the time the user isn't moving.
Archery, again, is a stationary 'sport'.
How about Nascar? Literally professional car sitting - but say that in the wrong place and you're liable to start a fight lol.

How do you measure physical activity that counts towards being a sport? Heart-rate, calories burned, sweat production, number of muscle groups engaged? I would imagine that most "esports" hit all or most of those boxes (however you define them), probably better than things people would prefer to call "sports".


IMO, way to many things are considered 'sports'. I feel that physical activity is the least important factor. Honestly, anything that doesn't involve some kind of team playing activity, like cross-country, swimming, gymnastics, cycling, etc. shouldn't be considered sports.

But since people get all grumpy when you call whatever their thing is "not a sport", I fall back to a more broad definition. A sporting event is a money making enterprise where people practice a skill and compete against others, it because 'professional' when the competitors get paid. So for me, pretty much everything from football to Starcraft is equally a sport. :) .

All that aside, I just don't understand the attachment people have to the word. I could never wrap my head around why people get so excited about this conversation (I don't mean anyone here specifically, more so the people in my life who I have seen get into very heated arguments on this topic). Call it a sport, don't call it a sport, who really cares - why does it create such an emotional response (generally speaking)?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 06:41:55 pm by Wilshire »
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MSJ

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2018, 02:25:28 pm »
All i know is this Wilshire. "Setting on a Xbox or computer, twiddling your thumbs, is not a sport." ;)

Look, i played Football, basketbal and track. I know all the physical hardwork i put infor years and years. You listen to athletes at the Olympics and youll hear them talk about how much training they did and how winning that gold made it all worth it. You uys can consider whatever You want to be a sport. Train for a eSport then train for downhill skiing and tell me which takes more of a physical toll on your body.

From the Oxford dictionary.

Quote
1An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Notice that word physical......
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 02:42:18 pm »
Professional starcraft players typically have to retire by the age of about 30. There was recently an expose done on one of the 'all time greats' who had to retire - not because he wanted to, but the hours of practice required every day has damaged his hands to be point where he can't physically move them fast enough to compete at that level. On top of that, studies suggest the cognitive strain is such that the limits of mental agility peak around 24, so after a few years past that older players just can't keep up.

So, if you want to talk about physical barriers, being able to play a sport for decades, into your 40s, 50s, even 60s, indicates to me less of a physical strain than being unable to complete at the top level of play by your 30s.

Point being of course that by any measure, an esport can beat out nearly anything you'd prefer to ascribe to only 'real sports', and plenty of 'real sports' won't meet that definition.

If anyone cares to find an example of "physical exertion" that excludes only professional video game players and not any one particular 'real sport', I'd love to hear it. But as long as the likes of pingpong, bowling, and nascar are sports, I don't think there's any real way to exclude video games.

Of course, I agree sitting at a computer twidding your thumbs doesn't make you a professional any more than a pickup game of basketball makes you a professional. Professionals of esports practice 8-16 hours a day just like their 'real sport' counterparts. Its not like some kid can walk in from the street and be the best in the world - at video games or sports. Both are skills mastered over hours and hours of work.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:45:57 pm by Wilshire »
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 03:05:23 pm »
Quote
How about Nascar? Literally professional car sitting - but say that in the wrong place and you're liable to start a fight lol.

Not a Nascar fan, but is considered the 2nd most strenuous sport in the world ( behind mid-fielder in Soccer ). Think of holding on to a wheel going 200 mph turning left for 2 straight hours ( and racing at that, moving up in position, avoiding crashes ) - their exercise regimen is impressive. Not commenting on whether it's a sport or not, but it is an impressive feat to participate. Not arguing, I don't care much, just pointing this out.

I agree, track and field are not "sports", but competitions. Essentially whose work out is most impressive ( minimizing for humor, they are impressive athletes and wild fun competitions to watch ).

The whole sports thing - I'm leaning on Wilshire's side, they call Poker's competition the World Series of Poker. I think any "intense" game competition is on the Sports spectrum with those lacking in physical exertion still a feat of stamina maintaining concentration, etc. That said, there are some that are more "sport" than others. Bonsai are trees, but Sequoias are more tree than bonsai are. Football is more sport than a video game competition, but both are sports. Prolonged intense competitive concentration may be the defining line, many consider spelling bees a sport ( though that might lean more on track and field competitions than sport ).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:07:17 pm by TaoHorror »
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MSJ

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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 03:12:35 pm »
You wont convince me because an E- "athlete" got carpal tunnel. Thats not physical exertion, not even close. Mental, yes. Lets let the E-athletes stick to their "olympics" and continue with "real" athletes at the Olympics.

Sorry, to get political Wilshire, but this is just another example of millenials and their demand to be included in any and everything. They're going to change the world. Sports are sports and we disnt need to have this conversation to know what constitutes a sport. Its ridiculous.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Dora Vee

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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 03:40:51 pm »
George Carlin on what sports is and isn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSJRIKuNJBA

I wonder what he would have said about E-Sports.

I do agree that E-Sports should be separate as IMO, it's entirely different from what goes in to the actual Olympics.

That being said, the US made history in men's Luge(poor Loch though) with a first silver medal. The Netherlands dominate Speed Skating as expected. Loved most of the routines in team figure skating(Italians were especially charming, but that's not technical difficulty).

Caught most of the finals this morning. Great to see a Japanese woman win silver in Speed Skating.

Curling finals should be interesting. :) I'm sure Bakker would prefer Canada, but I think Switzerland will win.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:45:43 pm by Dora Vee »
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Wilshire

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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 04:01:49 pm »
You wont convince me because an E- "athlete" got carpal tunnel. Thats not physical exertion, not even close. Mental, yes. Lets let the E-athletes stick to their "olympics" and continue with "real" athletes at the Olympics.

Sorry, to get political Wilshire, but this is just another example of millenials and their demand to be included in any and everything. They're going to change the world. Sports are sports and we disnt need to have this conversation to know what constitutes a sport. Its ridiculous.

Would just like to point out that millennial's are in their mid 30's, so I'm not convinced you're talking about the group of people you think you are.

Anyway, that you can't define a sport in such a way to exclude only what you want to exclude, and include only what you want to include, really isn't my issue is it?
You said physical exertion and training, I pointed out that video games are both.
You don't like it, but can't find a definition that fits, so you're now switching to some kind of strange political argument - "kids these days!" *shakes fist*... All that shows is that you're not really sure what a sport is, which is fine, but I'm again always confused why people get so passionate about excluding specific activities. In this instance, to the point of personal attacks on a whole group of people based solely on their age? At least you didn't go for the race argument, but come on. Unnecessary.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 04:05:46 pm »
Short track speed skating is one of my favorite winter olympic events. I have no clue why, probably because my mom loved Apolo Ohno.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:12:46 pm by Wilshire »
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 04:23:53 pm »
You wont convince me because an E- "athlete" got carpal tunnel. Thats not physical exertion, not even close. Mental, yes. Lets let the E-athletes stick to their "olympics" and continue with "real" athletes at the Olympics.

Sorry, to get political Wilshire, but this is just another example of millenials and their demand to be included in any and everything. They're going to change the world. Sports are sports and we disnt need to have this conversation to know what constitutes a sport. Its ridiculous.
So if your definition of sports only includes those sports which cause physical exhaustion, what about curling, darts or any other sports that emphasizes fine motor skills instead of physical strength/endurance? You either exclude those too, or accept that e-sports is a sport if you ask me. Not that I even care that much but your stubborn opposition is making me more reactionary. Also, if you think playing a video game competitively is just about fiddling with your thumbs, you should try actually playing a video game competitively. It's one thing to smoke weed and play tekken 3 on a playstation 2, it's another thing to play SC2 with 300 APM.

Dora Vee

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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 04:37:31 pm »
Short track speed skating is one of my favorite winter olympic events. I have no clue why, probably because my mom loved Apolo Ohno.

Oh yes! I love short track too! So fun to watch!
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Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 04:52:10 pm »
The ... rink? ... is so small! Compared to the track runners use, that thing is tiny. So  many bodies in such a small space. Very exciting!
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 11:27:59 pm »
George Carlin on what sports is and isn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSJRIKuNJBA

I wonder what he would have said about E-Sports.

I do agree that E-Sports should be separate as IMO, it's entirely different from what goes in to the actual Olympics.

That being said, the US made history in men's Luge(poor Loch though) with a first silver medal. The Netherlands dominate Speed Skating as expected. Loved most of the routines in team figure skating(Italians were especially charming, but that's not technical difficulty).

Caught most of the finals this morning. Great to see a Japanese woman win silver in Speed Skating.

Curling finals should be interesting. :) I'm sure Bakker would prefer Canada, but I think Switzerland will win.

I don't think someone who probably isn't really experienced in e-sports would be able to give a good argument.

You wont convince me because an E- "athlete" got carpal tunnel. Thats not physical exertion, not even close. Mental, yes. Lets let the E-athletes stick to their "olympics" and continue with "real" athletes at the Olympics.

Sorry, to get political Wilshire, but this is just another example of millenials and their demand to be included in any and everything. They're going to change the world. Sports are sports and we disnt need to have this conversation to know what constitutes a sport. Its ridiculous.
Well, considering that e-sports were already played in "real Olympics"...
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/7x1d41/the_official_olympics_youtube_channel_produced/?st=jdkumg36&sh=8458e69c
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:31:23 pm by Redeagl »
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Dora Vee

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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 11:44:32 pm »
Quote
I don't think someone who probably isn't really experienced in e-sports would be able to give a good argument.
Quote

This is George Carlin we're talking about. If he was still alive, he would have torn it to shreds. :p

I don't object to E-sports, I just don't think it should be included in the traditional Olympics. They should have a separate Olympics(E-Olympics has to be a thing) as they are entirely different competitions. It's why they're called E-sports. Watching TV sport is a thing too. Want that in the Olympics?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 01:57:35 am by Dora Vee »
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BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 03:39:59 am »
George Carlin on what sports is and isn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSJRIKuNJBA

Since you mention the late, great George Carlin, here's a great routine on football vs. baseball:
https://youtu.be/GU0aHikD8Vc
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:46:16 am by BeardFisher-King »
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