Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Darzin

Pages: 1 [2] 3
16
I don't think damnation is the only thing which happens in the outside I think it's just once side of the "harvest" some the gods reward some the gods punish.

Quote
He comes to the shore that is here, always here, gazes without sight across waters that are fire, and sees the Sons swimming, lolling and bloated and bestial, raising babes as wineskins, and drinking deep their shrieks.

Quote
He has always hidden, always watched, where Other Sons, recline, drinking from bowls that are skies, savoring the moaning broth of the Countless, bloating for the sake of bloat, slaking hungers like chasms, pits that eternity had rendered Holy ...

The place of shrieks and the place of moans are very different places one is fire,one is skies and one has moaning and one has shrieking. The gods feed on emotion not pain. Think of pain as a flavor like steak, and pleasure as a flavor like ice cream, some souls taste better with sprinkles and some with salt. That is what damnation is making your soul go with pain and not pleasure.

Indecently I do have a crackpot theory about the sons in the "place of skies" Given that the sons in the "place of fire" seem designed to produce pain, I wonder if the angelic ciprang we have been told about look like actual angels as in beautiful women and the place of skies produces pleasure through a constant orgy. This would fit Bakker's themes of peoples lot in life being improved because of pragmatism rather than altruism. The gods give us ecstasy because they need our ecstasy, not because they love us.

17
General Earwa / Re: The Origin and Practicalities of the Tusk
« on: May 27, 2016, 05:47:56 am »
I think Fane swore destroy the Tusk because by seeing the outside he realized the gods are basically demons feeding on souls. the Tusk commands humans to worship the hundred and as far as I'm aware makes no mention of the God. Now after our latest excerpt everyone basically most Fanim metaphysics. Now  whether the Fanim are saved is open to interpretation but I do have a pet theory that Cishaurim water washes ones soul of sin and that maybe if Fanim worship involves the Cishaurim they can wash the faithful as well.   

Quote
AngeshraĆ«l bows himself into a fire, in the presence of a "god" who still walked the world?  A fire that does not consume him, but enlightens him, in other words an Inverse Fire?  What a coincidence that after meeting this "god" he does exactly as the Inchoroi would want him to do, that is, lead the Tribes to Break the Gates.  I think that AngeshraĆ«l actually met Aurang on Mount Eshki, where he was seduced by the "truth" as presented in the Fire.  Aurang convinced him to lead the Tribes into Earwa, since he knew that they were losing to the Nonmen, that the Ark was under such siege that it was time to take the fight to the Nonmen's mansions.

Love this idea.

18
General Earwa / Re: Bakker's The Second Apocalypse Media Circus
« on: May 27, 2016, 04:37:44 am »
Well as an idea to raise his profile on book 5 and 6 when the Unholy Consult comes out I think we should try to get the Aspect Emperor series nominated for a Hugo award not sure if the Judging Eye or White Luck Warrior have been nominated before but if they haven't we can get the series as a whole nominated.

19
OK makes sense. Though I have to say if that level of revelation is in almost every chapter that really does set up TGO to be a truly epic book.

20
Author Q&A / What's going on in Eanna?
« on: May 26, 2016, 03:03:51 pm »
So really the only thing we know about Eanna is it's where man came from, the Xiuhianni live there and it's where Chanv comes from. So what's been happening there since the breaking of the gates? Anything else you can tell us? Maybe about the religion or culture. Or why despite having a long border with the Three Seas there seems to be little contact between continents.


21
No I don't feel attacked at all I just wanted to clarify my reasons for not liking the chapter, which aren't the same as some other people at Westros and seems to have got a bit personal. It's not about Bakker and women, it just didn't work for me.

Did you talk to Bakker personally about that chapter? Because given some of the criticism he's faced I feel that maybe this wasn't the best one to release given that it was going to be read and re-read and endlessly discussed. I'd be interested to know why he chose this part to release.

22
Fair enough, for me I'm a little fixated just because this is the first thing in the second apocalypse that has really challenged my suspension of disbelief. I think you're right that part of it is just having this little bit to analyze leads to much greater focus on it then if we got the whole book.

I'm welcome to be shaken I still love Bakker but I admit that the first series will always be my favorite,mainly for personal reasons. I didn't believe the gods were real then and truthfully I prefer more of a focus on human affairs. The fact of how many people are damned just makes the rich and detailed cultures Bakker has created seem kind of pointless, which I get is the point. I'm not really criticizing him more sharing my preferences.   

23
Well regarding the whale mothers I think some of it is our world doesn't have gods or sorcerers but it does have human genetics. So people can pick up on that as being unrealistic. Your right Bakker does have an out with nonmen genetics, but it didn't sit well with me regardless of that. For one it seems to be getting rid of realism in favor of horror the Dunyain are efficient and amoral, and if the women are Dunyain as well there is no reason to restrain them and furthermore knowing what we know of human biology keeping women in such conditions is not conducive to a healthy pregnancy and bringing a child to term.

24
Author Q&A / How do the Fanim hope to achieve salvation?
« on: May 25, 2016, 01:24:00 am »
What does a typical Fanim layman do to achieve salvation? What do they believe is required? Also what do the Cishaurim believe is necessary to achieve salvation and does it differ from the practices of laymen? 

25
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: May 24, 2016, 10:21:08 am »
That also fits with the quote from the witness of Fane, when making the world The God says "let there be deceit let there be desire,"

Also random bit of speculation I wonder if Cishaurim water washes the sin from you? I know the mark is not sin but it mentions in the false sun how Titirga's mark is strange and faded. So I wonder if the Cishaurim simply are not interesting to the agencies of the outside because they are "washed" by the water they bear. 

26
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Prologue + Chapter 1 excerpt
« on: May 21, 2016, 02:55:35 am »
I don't think damnation is the only thing which happens in the outside I think it's just once side of the "harvest" some the gods reward some the gods punish.

Quote
He comes to the shore that is here, always here, gazes without sight across waters that are fire, and sees the Sons swimming, lolling and bloated and bestial, raising babes as wineskins, and drinking deep their shrieks.

Quote
He has always hidden, always watched, where Other Sons, recline, drinking from bowls that are skies, savoring the moaning broth of the Countless, bloating for the sake of bloat, slaking hungers like chasms, pits that eternity had rendered Holy ...

These seem to be both the outside, one has fire, one has sky,one has shrieks, one has moaning, and I would hazard to guess that in one the Sons feed off pleasure and in the other they feed off pain. How one gets sorted between one or the other I would guess is the difference between salvation and damnation, the world exists to give souls experience and depending on the experience the soul is used for pleasure or pain.

It's interesting to me that this section more or less proves the Cishaurim right, the gods are demons who just want to snack on souls. Given that Meppa seems to be able to see this I wonder what the Cishaurim method of avoiding this is? I also wonder if, seeing as  Kellhus is warring against the gods the Fanim invasion was not merely a consequence of leaving but a feature after all if you want to fight the gods it is the Fanim who would be  your natural allies not the Intrithi, we can see this already with the cults rising up.

27
Literature / Re: Rec Thread
« on: January 22, 2016, 06:03:39 am »
What's the other thread called? I was under impression there were many threads concerning this or that particular author or series but no general recommendation thread, thus far?

The "Series as good as the second apocalypse" thread.

28
Literature / Re: Rec Thread
« on: January 20, 2016, 09:30:02 am »
Posted this in the other thread but that seems to be dead so...

The Dread Empire series by Glen Cook really reminds me of Bakker. It's a very dark world with empires and sorcerers aplenty. It really has the tone of the Prince of Nothing series with religious fanatics  and a Muhammad analogue vs and Asian themed despotism with magic nobility although that really does sell the series short at one point one of the main characters settles down to try and govern a small kingdom and the interaction of all the ethnic groups and classes that are shown puts most contemporary fantasy to shame.The one thing it lacks is the deep philosophy of The Second Apocalypse despite that it's tone is much closer to Bakker than George RR Martin, and I believe  someone, maybe Pat? asked Bakker if he was influenced  by it because of the similarities.

It's a great read and I'd highly recommend it to anyone who likes Bakker.

29
General Earwa / Re: sranc as elju?
« on: December 28, 2015, 08:33:57 am »
Sranc do have language and can craft basic items so they have some intelligence. Some Sranc have souls just like some animals and skin spies have souls so maybe you need a Sranc with a soul?

30
General Earwa / Re: The Might Of The Skin-Spies
« on: December 28, 2015, 08:25:25 am »
I believe Kelhus did not grasp the heart. The witches do which must make for some weird body issues in the dreams.

Pages: 1 [2] 3