Wilshire's post in the Akka power thread intrigues me and I wanted to make a separate topic for it.
What if Serwa teaches the Quya the Metagnosis? Then they teleport to Golgotterath.
This, of course, requires that there be some legitimately Intact Quya left.
Personally, I think most of the Nonmen in Ishterebinth are, probably, Intact. However, I think that the revelation of Nil'giccas' lie in Injor-Niyas - speculation, obviously - probably would be enough to convince the Intact to join the Consult for entirely rational reasons.
I honestly wonder what innovations the Intact have made to their sorcery in their quest to stay sane.
This is presuming the Intact are sorcerers rather than your run-of-the-mill Cunoroi. Perhaps it is just the Quya who go insane.
I think you mean it's just Non-Quya who go insane, yes? And yes, I'm assuming some Quya remain Intact.
why? the only erratics we've seen onscreen are quya.
I kinda imagine these 'intact' are non-men who've been locked in a room polishing stones or something to keep their memories from being overwritten.
Maybe they are actually kind of retarded.
Quote from: lockesnowwhy? the only erratics we've seen onscreen are quya.I don't think Cinial'jin was Quya.
Quote from: CurethanI kinda imagine these 'intact' are non-men who've been locked in a room polishing stones or something to keep their memories from being overwritten.
Maybe they are actually kind of retarded.
I have come to this conclusion myself. Perhaps they simply have been sitting in a room meditating for thousands of years. Though that is extremely lame and I hope it is not the case.
Back on topic though:
Though it had only occured to me just before I posted on the other thread, I'm glad someone was intrigued.
It seems that Kellhus needs some more allies, or at any rate, he needs the nonmen. He wouldn't have wasted ships full of men looking for them if he didn't. Now he could need them for several reasons. He may just need to ensure that they dont become enemies, or get in his way. He already has plenty of those, and have the nonmen on that list would certainly be bad. This, or, he could need them as allies. I think this is more likely considering how hard he worked at contacting them, and also considering that he is going to take back their moribund outpost.
If he needs them as allies, then he would want them to be worth his time. I don't think he knows the state of their magic. I think that there is almost nothing known of the Quya by anyone, so it could be possible that Serwa is being sent to help them some. To teach them the Metagnosis perhaps? I certainly hope so, but that would take time. Something that the Ordeal has less of than anything else it seems. So maybe just a quick lesson on how to make some big explosions (they already have those nifty chariots so they dont need to teleport i dont think).
Quote from: WilshireQuote from: CurethanI kinda imagine these 'intact' are non-men who've been locked in a room polishing stones or something to keep their memories from being overwritten.
Maybe they are actually kind of retarded.
I have come to this conclusion myself. Perhaps they simply have been sitting in a room meditating for thousands of years. Though that is extremely lame and I hope it is not the case.
Meditation does interesting things for the Dunyain ("The logos is without beginning or end"). Where would a Non-Man be after two millennia of such discipline? I want to see the result, even if it is a one-off.QuoteBack on topic though:
Though it had only occured to me just before I posted on the other thread, I'm glad someone was intrigued.
It seems that Kellhus needs some more allies, or at any rate, he needs the nonmen. He wouldn't have wasted ships full of men looking for them if he didn't.
Kellhus, more than anything else, needs information about the No-God and the process of summoning him. Barring Maithanet and Papa Moe, who are both dead now, no one in the Three Seas has working knowledge of the Inchoroi and their intentions apart from the Mandate, and the impression we are given from the books is that the Mandate knows less than one might think, especially about the things that really matter. If Kellhus can make the summoning impossible (for instance, by killing one of both of the Inchoroi) then the Consult are defeated in principle, even if they will still be able to hide out and be immortal and depraved in the far north. But who has this information? The Non-Men are easily the best source of knowledge apart from Consult members themselves (who will be damnably difficult to subvert, haha see what I did there).
I wish the old Three-Seas was accessible for moments like these.
Bakker's quote about the Nonmen was that they'd spent these millenia looking for any means, sorcerous or otherwise, to forestall their cognitive decline.
I wouldn't be disappointed if the Nonmen were polishing stones or meditating. Hell, I can even envision something like a DBZ's Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
It's the sorcerous or otherwise that implies to me that Quya aren't all powerful in Nonmen society like they'd seem in Earwan society without the social constraint of Chorae. I'd think Ishroi would also have a chance at remaining Intact, neh?
DBZ's hyperbolic Time Chamber, sir, made the occupants experiences a years worth of time inside while a week past in regular time. (fuzzy one the week, might have been less). Something like that would only make matters worse.
Oh Wilshire, a simple inversion be all we need.
How about a sorcerous chamber where a day passing, is years outside?
haha i know, just wanted to point out how much of a nerd i am. that is all.
im sure the opposite could work out just fine, though it would probably require many sorcerers to maintain that kind of no-time field.
Hmm... No-time field. Damn you, Wilshire lol. Where are you at with the series? Done Heretics?
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completely off topic but:
I stopped after chapterhouse, though the ending was infuriating and I'll get around to the others at some point. I just read the first hitchhicker's guide since I figured it was about time I did, and now im reading Perdido Street Station by China Mieville. That book if going to be brutal.
It's really funny because until the reading of this thread I didn't even realize that there were anymore titles in the original series after Chapterhouse. Brian Herbert did not inherit his father's skillset :(.
I'm open to finding solace in disappointment. I read PON twice before I ever realized that there was going to be another series... I was mindblown that he would just tell only that story in that incredible world and I thought Bakker was an audacious fuck. It was awesome.
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But this might be better continued in another thread lol.
I usually try not to resurrect old threads, but this is something I've wondered about myself. Some points:
-Achamian is probably pretty powerful in the Gnosis. There's obviously debate about just how strong Achamian is compared to others in Earwa, but the Gnosis is pretty kickass all by itself. Certainly, its much stronger than the Anagogic Schools.
-Achamian is thrashed by Cleric. The way I read that fight led me to believe that it wasn't any skill of Achamian's which allowed him to win, but rather the actions of Cleric himself. Either Nil'giccas became too confused in his insanity to realize where he was and what was happening, or he actually wanted to die.
-Cleric is a Quya, but he is also an Erratic. Achamian says that Erratics remember fundamental themes (or something like that) such as the innuterals of their spells, but obviously insanity affects even the most powerful Quya's ability (ex. Nil'giccas lost). If memory serves, the No-Man encountered by Kellhus in the wilds was also an Erratic, and even with his magic he did not (could not?) kill Kellhus.
What I have been considering is this: could Intact Quya be on an entirely different level than Erratic Quya? It seems reasonable to me that an Intact Quya would be able to focus on the forms of their spells with a keenness and force which would be impossible for their Erratic brethren. Maybe an Intact Quya could form spells with a similar definition and power to the Metagnosis? I kind of doubt it...but I like the thought anyway.
Resurrect threads with vigor, none of them are locked for a reason.
I'd like to think that the intact could be on a different level, but as a foil for that: the Erratic could be like idiot savants.
But I personally hope that the Inchoroi magi or the Intact can offer us some pretty awesome battles against Kellhus's metagnosis.
In a similar line of reasoning: could an Erratic learn the Psukhe and turn eons of suffering and pain into a Deluge-esque outpouring of Water?
Actually, is it ever stated whether the Psukhe is something only humans can learn? I don't think it is, but I could be wrong. Now I'm wondering...if the No-Men have been around for as long as they have shouldn't it follow that they would have discovered the No-Man equivalent of the Psukhe by now?
+1 Wilshire. Please, Centurion, resurrect at your leisure and indiscriminately.
There's a Bakker quote somewhere on Zombie Three Seas about the Psukhe being stumbled upon by humans but that it has arisen independently in the past before...
I figure Intact Quya would have an edge on Erratic Quya. The quote you are remembering is Achamian telling Mimara that sorcery is like a reflex for Quya... Cleric can little more forget sorcery than I can "forget" my knee-jerk reaction.
Digressing; I think the erratics remember things but they aren't joined together.
They are different people depending on their mood, when their moods change they remember different things - completely disconnected though. Only trauma still lets them regain a sense of completeness.
On topic, I think Akka is more powerful than he gives himself credit for. And he rates himself a chance against Cleric, until he is exhausted from being tied up for weeks.
Even then he fights dragon first and only uses Wards when they do go at it, because he doesn't want to kill his old freind. It's not really a contest anyone could win.
There is the The Cleric Suicides[/b] (http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/the-cleric-suicides-t1222238.html).
I've already hazarded a theory regarding the Dunyain leveraging Nonmen Erraticism to create new, controllable personas...
But +1 for Thoughts, Curethan.