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Messages - jurble

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] CRACKPOT Is Kellhus the God?
« on: July 27, 2017, 08:47:35 pm »
I don't think Kellhus is the God, though I think it's possible he is a prophet of the God who started to disbelieve his own prophethood.   The best fit for The God is Bakker himself in an in-world sense that Bakker is playing the role of the God rather than by his being the author he is the God, if that makes sense.

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I always thought this work on DeviantArt was just... okay.   But these are impressive, especially the Golgotterath wall.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 10:03:50 pm »

Mimara never sees Kellhus with the Eye? She sees the No-God or arguably Kelmomas but never Kellhus. As far as I recall - and again, haven't read the canon artifact yet.


Yes, Mimara never sees Kellhus (unless Kellhus is her baby).   We were discussing whether Kellhus should be damned or not.  My point was that we still don't know what damns/saves someone, whereas MSJ was arguing that ignorance saves.  I'm currently leaning towards sins only count if actually personally committed i.e. ordering murder isn't a sin, given that Esmenet's only sins are her carnal ones.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 07:02:10 pm »
To your point on what damns and saves. We know through Koringhus and even Kellhus in TUC, what is Holy. Its textual evidence. I have linked quotes multiple times across many threads on this forum. Ignorance, and innocence are the most Holy attributes on Earwa. Its why Sërwe is a cipher for the series, her ignorance and innocence. Its why Esme is saved, as per Kellhus, he kept her ignorant to many things to protect and save her. Ignorance and innocence is what is Holy and that is textual fact. I can quote a 100 quotes to back this up. But, a close reading of the book provides these answers..and I've quoted it more than enough times prior to TUC. And, Kellhus confirms this to Esme in Chapter 1. So we know.

And yet Kellhus tells us Serwe burns in Hell.  You're using Kellhus as direct evidence for ignorance-as-holy, yet ignoring him on another.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 06:39:11 pm »
Yours is based on circumstantial evidence

As an aside, I don't like this argument because it implies circumstantial evidence is weighed less or should weigh less than direct evidence (confessions and witnesses identifying the suspect), yet direct evidence can be lies.   I mean, irl, the weight the American legal system gives to direct evidence is one of its fatal flaws having led to numerous false convictions over our history. In the text, direct evidence has often been lies.   

The baby being Holy, in all honesty goes against or theory if anything. Because, of all we've learned about what damned one, Kelly is should be damned as no other. But, I do think Kelly is is Holy for reasons and proof that hasn't come about yet.

Should he, though?  Because despite Mimara possessing the Judging Eye, we still understand little about what damns and what saves.  Mimara and Esmenet are Saved for some reason, and definitely in the case of the latter, she has committed numerous sins - she has had innocents slaughtered, tortured, burned - yet the only sins Mimara sees are the carnal sins meaning Esmenet committed no sins when acting for Kellhus.  So if anything, whether Kellhus should be damned is an utter mystery, given the weird circumstances that seem to absolve sins.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 03:23:54 am »

Jurble, what I find ironic is the example I use is Moe. Lol. What happened to Moe? He was salted, dead, dead as dead. Yet, we plumbed the text for any evidence real or contrived to find that Moe was still "alive". Well, well, well, his son, Anasurimbor Kellhus was salted also and here we are plumbing the texts to see where our Holy Prophet is. So, to say with conviction that Mimara's son IS in fact Kellhus I find it laughable at first. Then intrigued. Then, I ask, "Is this Moe all over again?".
I was always on the Moe-is-dead camp.  There were no textual bases for his survival.   Kellhus, however, has some a fair degree of textual evidence that indicates he had contingencies planned for his death (he told Proyas he knew he was likely to fail, he instigated the journey of Akka and Mimara for some unknown purpose).  Moreover his behavior aside from that indicates something was up.  He retrieves Esme and Kelmomas after Dagliash - the moment he confirmed the Dunyain ruled the Consult - he goads Esmenet into releasing Kelmomas.  Even Malowebi's head's likely purpose was to act as his third eye - to see Kelmomas.

Using the university card, a classic.
On topic: So if the Gods were hunting Ajokli to prevent him from bringing aeons of suffering on Eärwa, then I guess it really was true that the Gods were blind to the No-God. So maybe the Judging Eye is a sort of emissary sent by the Gods to reveal Ajokli?

The Judging Eye is from The God not the Gods.  The Judging Eye can see the No-God, the Gods cannot.  God can see the No-God because the God is by definition all-seeing.    Moreover, the nature of Divine Will in its true sense, rather than that of the creatures called the Gods, is that everything occurs precisely according to divine will.   The Judging Eye, being from God, isn't meant to reveal Ajokli - precisely because it doesn't reveal Ajokli.  God's purpose is indistinguishable from what happens in the world.  So, instead, the purpose of the Judging Eye is what we have seen it do.  From the moment Mimara woke it, and saw everything she has seen with it, that has been its purpose, and everything she saw with it, she was Intended to see with it.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 01:11:09 am »
Why such hostility?  I'm laying out a theory.  Should I modify my sentences with "maybe, perhaps" or other such nonsense adverbs instead of stating my arguments with simple linking verbs?   You know that's what they explicitly teach not to do in university when making arguments.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 20, 2017, 12:14:40 am »
The Baby is Kellhus and a true Prophet -as Kellhus has always been.  From the first moment he felt inexplicable rage at Serwe being raped by Cnaiur, he was a prophet.  That rage he felt was the God's.    He realized his own prophethood in TTT, but eventually decided he was mad and "The God does not care."  Yet, the mere fact of Mimara possessing the Judging Eye demonstrates that The God does care... or at least take an interest.

The God, by the way, is Bakker himself and always has been.   Thus we can reconcile the immanent tradition of the Inrithi with the transcendental of the Fanim.  The Gods (and all of Creation) are part of God (God is Immanent) because they are composed of Bakker's own thoughts, his thoughts being a material portion of himself.  The God is yet transcendental because Bakker exists apart as entity from his Creation despite it being composed of him.

Moreover, Mimara is an anagram for Mariam, the Aramaic and Arabic name for Mary.  I asked Scott about this on his blog a year ago, and he replied he wasn't sure if it was intentional - but he did not deny the Marian parallels between Mimara and Mary. 

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 19, 2017, 03:28:30 pm »
Kellhus is now a baby, you noobs.

Welcome back to SA, jurble. I don't think I've seen you posting here since the old red v1 forumer!

Though, please, don't leave it up to MSJ or anyone else to make sense of your posts for the rest of us ;).

I'm just too attached to the hilarious concept of Kellhus being a baby now to elaborate.  The fact that it isn't entirely absurd amuses me to no end.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 18, 2017, 11:37:31 pm »
ye

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 18, 2017, 08:49:30 pm »
Kellhus is now a baby, you noobs.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Unholy Consult Giveaway
« on: May 25, 2017, 08:22:37 pm »
Humans (and Nonmen) are the 'spirits' and Ciphrang are the flesh-and-blood people!

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Given their Nonmen blood, royal stature and the fact that Nonmen did engage in royal marriages prior to the Womb Plague, an Anasurimbor bride would seem ideal for Nil'Giccas, his sons or Gin'yursis.

Was the attempt ever made?  If not, was it because marriage with a human (even one with Nonman blood) was seen as too demeaning and the Anasurimbor wouldn't consent to concubinage or other reasons?

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Author Q&A / Was Celmomas' First Ordeal orchestrated by the Consult?
« on: August 04, 2016, 11:38:29 pm »
The Nonmen who warned Seswatha had to have been made aware that the No-God's summoning was imminent somehow, right?  Perhaps that information was leaked by someone like Mekeritig in order to supply Golgotterath with the captives that appear necessary for the No-God?

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Author Q&A / Flying chariots and ocean-worthy ships
« on: July 30, 2016, 01:18:18 am »
Why hasn't Kellhus equipped the Ordeal with flying chariots like those of the Nonmen?  Especially on the plains, they would offer protection and mobility to the Schoolmen beyond that of just the billows.

And we're told that Kellhus lost numerous expeditions trying to reach Injor-Niyas.  The Three-Seas are still using galleys, but Kellhus should've been able to design a junk, caravel or carrack fairly easily - the hard part in their design is that of the masts and the manner of sail rigging, which would Kellhus would be able to easily see.  Edit: Someone pointed out to me that Cironji Carracks are mentioned frequently in the series.  Are these less ocean-worthy than historical carracks?

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