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Messages - Clozee

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1
I might post something more substantial later, but for now...

Check out these excerpts from the discussion between Shae and Titirga in The False Sun. They are surely relevant to the argument about what, if anything, Ajokli had to do with the Inverse Fire:

Quote
“So that is the source of your madness,” Titirga said. “The Inverse Fire.”

[...]

“I know only what Nil’giccas told me. That Misariccas and Runidil returned shrieking–”

Yes. Shaeönanra had also shrieked… for a time. And wept.

“–and that Cet’ingira counselled his King to have them killed.”

A barking laugh. “And did he tell you why?”

A moment of fierce scrutiny.

“Because they could not be trusted. Because they had been ensorceled… Possessed.

“No!” Shaeönanra heard himself cry. “No!” Could this be him, wagging his head like a fly-maddened ox, gesticulating like an old hag at funeral? “Because they had seen the Truth!”

Titirga gazed with undisguised distaste. “Such is the form of all possession. You know as mu–”

[...]

“Possessed, you tell yourselves. Possessed! We are different because we are no longer ourselves. You counsel the All-King to crack our Seal, destroy us and all we have toiled to achieve. Our Voices are polluted, unclean!” He threw his back in Feal laughter, cackled with spite and glee. “So tell me , if we are possessed, who is our new owner?”

“The Tekne,” the Archidemu Sohoncu said with grim confidence. “The Mangaecca have been enslaved. You have been enslaved.”

Shaeönanra blinked. Of course the fool was unmoved. Of course he had his reasons. No matter. This was indulgence, arguing like this, availing reason.

He warred with his expression–something between a grimace and a grin.”Yes… But who is our new master?

A peculiar weariness haunted Titirga as he shook his maned head: one not so much of as for.

Feal, something whispered from his gaze.

A lunatic God… perhaps. The Hells that you think you see. Something… Something adulterate, foul. Something that craves feasting, that hungers with an intensity that can bend the very Ground.”

Aurang had stood silent during this time, gazing down at the two bickering men. After the intimacies they had shared, it seemed Shaeönanra could sense the pulse of his passion. Lust in the lazy tumescence of his member. Impatience in the incline of his shield-long head. Hatred in the flicker of membranes…

“Does that not trouble you?” the Hero-Mage pressed. “That you have but one eye!”

Tedious. Tedious. Tedious.

“Why, Titirga?” Shaeönanra implored. “Why have you come here?” He shook his head, arguing with the floor. “Did you hope to show me my folly?” And it all seemed a pantomime, this incontinence of voice and expression. For beneath, he knew exactly what he needed to do. He could feel it, the certainty of snakes coiled in the darkness, the confidence of things that neither run nor sleep.”There’s no folly in what I do, I assure you. I know. I have seen!” He jerked his face back, squinting and scowling. “What are your reasons compared to this? Your guesses? Your rumours of a dead age?”

“But what, Shaeönanra? What is it you have seen? Your damnation or your goad?”


2
It's an unanswered question.

I like the following theory:

Because of Ajokli. Ajokli put the idea in their heads. He could influence them even when they were lightyears away from Earwa, because the Ark and especially the area around the Inverse Fire were such deep topoi. This allowed some of his influence to leak through.

(edit: Or maybe Ajokli directly influenced the mind of anyone looking into the Inverse Fire. After all, it is a "but a window into his House".)

And why did Ajokli put that idea in their heads? Because he wanted the Ark to crash on Earwa, so that eventually, thousands of years later, he could fully manifest in the golden room through Kellhus.

And maybe the malfunction that caused the Ark to crash was due to a miracle wrought by Ajokli.

Also, in TUC's glossary, there's an entry for the Ark:

Quote
Incû-Holoinas—“Ark-of-the-Skies” (Ihrimsû). The great vessel that brought the Inchoroi from the heavens and became the golden heart of Golgotterath. All scholars agree that the Incû-Holoinas was some kind of ship built to sail the sky, that it crashed some time prior to the inscription of the Tusk, but only a rare handful concede the claim that it sailed the Void proper, which is to say, between stars. The most compelling rebuttal of this fanciful notion comes from Ajencis himself, who pointed out that the stars would move relative one another were they not uniformly embedded in a sphere hanging a fixed distance about the sky. Since the relative positioning of the stars is identical in star charts inked from different corners of the World, we can be assured that the Incû-Holoinas “came from someplace distant, but not far away.” This, the Great Kyranean concludes, means the Incû-Holoinas must hail from the Outside and not the stars.

This disagreement in origins forms the basis of the two different families of speculation on the Incû-Holoinas, with Nonmen and Far Antique Mannish accounts generally insisting it’s a vessel constructed to cross the Void, and with more recent Mannish accounts agreeing that it’s a vessel constructed to escape damnation in the Outside. Where the former accounts hold the occupants to be “aliens,” monstrosities from another World, the latter accounts claim the Inchoroi were in fact ciphrangi—demons, in effect.

The tremendous advantage of the latter theories turns on their economy, on the fact that they need posit nothing new to explain either the Incû-Holoinas or the Inchoroi. If the Ark were a vessel from another planet, then it had to be constructed by the Inchoroi themselves, when plainly, given its boggling dimensions, only a God could have forged it. Given the evil, rapacious nature of the Inchoroi, the construction is typically attributed to Ajokli. Some even think the Incû-Holoinas comprises two of the fabled Four Horns attributed to the trickster God in the Tusk and elsewhere. Indeed, some Near Antique lays refer to the conspicuously golden vessel as the Halved Crown of Hate.

Though the question of the origin of the Incû-Holoinas can be assumed to be safely settled, vexing questions abide, not the least of which concerns the actual size of the unholy vessel, and, most notoriously, whether the Consult still inhabits it. Though some promise is to be had in the resolution of the former controversy, Mandate arrogance and delusion promises to render the latter debate an endless mire.

So, this is supposed to be an entry from an in-universe encyclopedia, written by a scholar who thinks the Ark came from the Outside, and was maybe constructed by Ajokli.

We are supposed to laugh at this entry since we know better. We know that the Inchoroi actually are aliens, and the Ark was constructed via the Tekne, not by a god.

But we were also supposed to laugh at Fanayal and Harweel when they insisted that Kellhus was a demon! Even though, in the end, they were partly right. More right than most of us suspected.

So maybe this entry is also partly right, in that Ajokli did have something to do with the Ark crashing onto Earwa.



edit: changed topic title to be more accurate, was "Why was Earwa the promised land?'

3
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Music for TUC
« on: March 11, 2018, 11:55:42 am »
I, too, got back into some metal while reading TUC. And I, too, found that the lyrics which I used to find embarassing and comically dark, could totally have been written about the story.

Here's a song: Dimmu Borgir - Mourning Palace. (Ignore the video.)

Here's the lyrics. This song is clearly about the crimes the ordealmen commit on the field appalling, and how they're damned for it, and how they lament it afterwards. For Satan, read Ajokli. :)

Quote
Daylight has finally reached it's end
As evenfall strikes into the sky
Far away in the dark glimpsing moonlight
Sickening souls cry out in pain

Whispering voices summoning screams
Waiting for Satan to bless their sins
Blackhearted angels fallen from grace
Possessed by the search for utter darkness

Hear the cries from the Mourning Palace
Feel the gloom of restless spirits
Hear the screams from the Mouring Palace
Feel the doom of haunting chants

Eternal is their lives in misery
Eternal is their lives in grief
Abandoned in a void of nothingness
A chain of anger, a fetter of despair

In this garden of depraved beings
This unsacred place of helpless ones
Satan blessed the creatures
Inswathed them in endless night

 (Also, the Dark Souls 3 soundtrack that was already mentioned. That was great.)

4
General Earwa / Re: Modern Day Times With A Dunyain
« on: March 11, 2018, 11:39:50 am »
Sometimes, to fall asleep, I think about what would happen if a Dunyain was dropped into the modern world with some very difficult mission. Like traveling to Proxima Centauri (a planet about 4 light years away). Or diving into a black hole. You know, maybe he's been summoned there :)

Obviously, he doesn't know anything about science, and doesn't even speak any modern language.

Maybe in the modern world he would soon figure out that the best approach is to hide out, master the field of AI by studying over the internet, and program a superintelligent AI to serve his mission.

Could also ask how he would do if he was dropped into ancient Rome. Or into a hunter-gatherer tribe 10000 years ago. Could he still pull it off and how?

Would make for good fanfiction :)



5
General Earwa / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Foreshadowing in the books.
« on: March 11, 2018, 11:16:22 am »

I believe Clozee's question was whether the word "obliterated" is "Dunyain" or "Kellhus?"

Yep.



I think the two drops have to stand for two people who go mad. I present the reason for this below.

But first, if they do have to stand for two people who go mad, then they can't stand for Kellhus and Moenghus, because Moenghus didn't go mad.

(Or did he? Was the thousandfold thought a concoction of Ajokli, that he infected both Moenghus and Kellhus with, with the ultimate goal of getting himself into the golden room? I like this theory but it doesn't seem compatible with what Bakker has said in Q&A's. Bakker said that that Kellhus "failed to execute on the Thousandfold Thought" because of Ajokli's influence.)

So why do they have to stand for two people that go mad? Because the ink drops bleed out in a similar way in both quotes. Again:

1:
Quote
... Each man, he explained, was a kind of hole in existence, a point where the Outside penetrated the world. He tapped one of the beads with his finger. It broke, staining the surrounding parchment. When the trials of the world broke men, he explained, the Outside leaked into the world.

This, he had said, was madness.

2:
Quote
... Two drops of ink—tap-tap—marred the script. He watched them bleed outward, chasing a million infinitesimal veins, obliterating the word.

So, which two people? I think the most obvious option is Achamian and Cnaiur. But I guess you could make the argument that one of them is Kellhus instead.


6
General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Nascenti of Zaudunyanicon
« on: February 25, 2018, 02:21:52 pm »
I hunger for this Meat. Hope you haven't forgotten about it.

7
News/Announcements / Re: TSA T-Shirt Contest
« on: February 25, 2018, 02:08:06 pm »
My ideal TSA t-shirt would just have a graphic of the golden Horns of Golgotterath. Could be small or could cover the whole shirt. Maybe no text needed at all. Would have to make sure that one of the horns is appropriately canted. Don't know who would be up to designing such a thing though.

8
General Earwa / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Foreshadowing in the books.
« on: February 25, 2018, 01:57:40 pm »
Check this out:

First quote:

Quote
He had poked holes of varying sizes throughout the parchment, and when he held his oil lantern high to complement the firelight, little beads of water glinted across the tanned landscape. Each man, he explained, was a kind of hole in existence, a point where the Outside penetrated the world. He tapped one of the beads with his finger. It broke, staining the surrounding parchment. When the trials of the world broke men, he explained, the Outside leaked into the world.

This, he had said, was madness.

Second quote:

Quote
... thinking of all the Scylvendi had said regarding the new Emperor, of how even now he marched on the Holy War from the west—or from the sea. “Warn them,” the leering shadow had said. “I would not see Proyas dead.”

He quickly scratched a welter of new lines, all the connections he had ignored since his abduction by the Scarlet Spires. Then, in a hand too steady to be his own—for he was mad, he knew that now—he wrote,

THE DÛNYAIN

in the open space to the left of,

ANASÛRIMBOR KELLHUS

He held his quill above the ancient word for some time. Two drops of ink—tap-tap—marred the script. He watched them bleed outward, chasing a million infinitesimal veins, obliterating the word.

The ink drops seem to stand for Achamian and Cnaiur and for the fact that they have gone mad. (And this is due to Kellhus.)

That's interesting enough. But also, the ink drops "obliterate" a word on the paper. It's not clear whether that word is "Dunyain" or "Kellhus", though.

If it's "Kellhus" this would appear to foreshadow that Achamian and Cnaiur together will defeat Kellhus, aided by their madness. That's not what happens in the end, but they did try.

If it's "Dunyain", dunno. Could be about how Cnaiur kills Moenghus and Achamian is involved in the death of Koringhus.

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