The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: Camlost on November 10, 2015, 09:32:56 pm

Title: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Camlost on November 10, 2015, 09:32:56 pm
Now I know we've tried in the past to do a forum-wide or group reread of The Second Apocalypse and it didn't meet with spectacular results; however, now we have The Great Ordeal looming on the horizon, and if that isn't impetus enough to brush up on that which has come before then I don't know what is.

So with that said, I'm going to be rereading both Prince of Nothing and The Aspect Emperor series in preparation for the upcoming release. I'm going to take it at a leisurely pace of one novel a month starting in January so that anyone else interested might join me(and so as not to interfere with my class readings..).

That also gives us ample time to discuss and speculate or resurrect any details that come up throughout the course of reading.

If anyone wants to join in reading along, I'm happy for the company. If anyone just wants to post while we go, that is more than welcome too.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Simas Polchias on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 pm
Nice idea.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 11, 2015, 12:20:46 am
I'll see what my schedule is looking like around then, but I think I'd be down for this.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 11, 2015, 01:06:17 pm
If I finish what I'm working before then I will participate. Or maybe I'll skip tdtcb, which is where I left off on my previous reread.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: locke on November 11, 2015, 08:42:25 pm
I still feel bad that my sarcastic and insincere comment about spoilers led to the slog of slogs forum being renamed the almanac. :(

Slog of slogs is the best name
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 11, 2015, 10:10:06 pm
We'll keep this one here for open spoilers. Much more conducive for conversing
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 13, 2015, 06:38:26 am
Lol - it was a valid concern, locke (Slog of slogs being a spoiler).

Once again, you all do as you will but the Almanac is (and has been) open for posts (as is TAE Almanac).

EDIT: And to be clear, obviously I encourage any brave souls to continue to quest to build the Almanacs.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 13, 2015, 04:07:02 pm
Tried to do that for TWP, but it made reading a chore and its what stifled my previous attempted re-read.


Taking notes made it too academic and I got bored.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 13, 2015, 04:46:56 pm
Lol - there's no standard of post. It's worth the social facilitation, at the very least, making a post (and necessarily a thread) after you finish reading a chapter, with a few quick sentences about impressions, personal aesthetic value attribute (was it good?), etc, etc ;).
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 13, 2015, 05:19:42 pm
When we do this, I might try to focus on cataloging Akka's dreams and their context, if I can.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 13, 2015, 06:52:42 pm
In case you missed this in Quorum, H: http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1104.msg11491#msg11491
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 16, 2015, 01:52:50 pm
In case you missed this in Quorum, H: http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1104.msg11491#msg11491

Well, I sure did miss that...I see that I have been preceded, haha.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Bolivar on November 16, 2015, 04:28:29 pm
I'll be down for this!

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Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: MSJ on November 16, 2015, 11:54:43 pm
I'm in for this too. What I recommend is when we start this is some sort of schedule. Like we have a week to read so many chapters, then on Sunday discussion will start on those chapters. I'm sure someone can figure a schedule out that will coincide with the release of TGO. It will get us all brushed up and ready to dive into all that is unholy.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: profgrape on November 17, 2015, 01:38:35 am
Alright, tipping point hit, I'm in!
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 17, 2015, 03:26:36 pm
5 books, 7 months to go once Jan 6 hits.

26 Sundays after Sunday Jan 3. That'll likely be the start day.

So 3 weeks per book and we finish a week early.

Maybe we should start earlier?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 17, 2015, 04:31:24 pm
I fear involving myself, in a "if I touch it, this might fail" kind of way but... for your information:

- When we initially started the Almanac, we were doing a chapter every week, which stopped in any consistency after I stopped making the threads (that's not true, locke, solo, and Tony P tried to keep it going). So I care not where you all do your reread but I would appreciate if you would share some of your intermittent thoughts to The Almanac: PON Edition (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?board=19.0)/TAE Edition (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?board=26.0), in this, The Most Awesome of All Possible Series Rereads (until TUC and TSTSNBN respectively are released, I guess).

- On that note, a chapter a week wasn't enough; though, this could easily be inversely related to that being too much time.

- Is there a TSACast component :)?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Camlost on November 17, 2015, 08:48:42 pm
My school break starts first week of December, so I'm game to begin then. I'm not sure how anyone else's reading habits go or when they're most liable to dig into it. It looks like we have a few folks interested, so maybe a more concrete plan will coalesce in coming days now that it has been broached.

Quote
Is there a TSACast component :)?
Following each book seem appropriate?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 17, 2015, 08:56:52 pm
I'll host, of course, but that depends on those not me partaking ;).
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Anasurimbor Phallus on November 17, 2015, 10:42:37 pm
Hi everyone, I jumped over from the Martin board ("Houndhelm" over there) . Please count me in for this reread.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Garet Jax on November 17, 2015, 10:54:48 pm
Welcome to the revolution, AP.

Cheers
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: themerchant on November 18, 2015, 11:34:17 am
I'm on a constant re-read atm, the Second Apocalypse ha been moved into my bathroom library.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 18, 2015, 04:28:46 pm
I'm on a constant re-read atm, the Second Apocalypse ha been moved into my bathroom library.
Pretty sure thats a promotion. Good to hear.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 18, 2015, 06:00:25 pm
Hi everyone, I jumped over from the Martin board ("Houndhelm" over there) . Please count me in for this reread.

Glad our ineptitude in activating new members didn't stop you.

I'm on a constant re-read atm, the Second Apocalypse ha been moved into my bathroom library.

I'm halfway through TWP again, right now.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 18, 2015, 06:03:05 pm
There are 92 chapters in the series and two short interludes.

There are about 32 weeks from today until the book comes out.  That means if we started lets say, next week, we would need to read 3 Chapters per week to finish early.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 18, 2015, 06:29:36 pm
I'm excited for this journey. Especially because without me, I can do nothing to fuck it up :).
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 18, 2015, 06:40:56 pm
I think three chapters a week is a pretty nice pace, since it allows us plenty of time to discuss each one and not have to speed into the next as much.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 18, 2015, 07:25:48 pm
I'm excited for this journey. Especially because without me, I can do nothing to fuck it up :).
Not true. ;)

I think three chapters a week is a pretty nice pace, since it allows us plenty of time to discuss each one and not have to speed into the next as much.
3 a week starting next week, for 6 months, sounds exhausting :P. But its the only way I'd ever do a full read before The Great Ordeal release.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 18, 2015, 07:33:04 pm
I think three chapters a week is a pretty nice pace, since it allows us plenty of time to discuss each one and not have to speed into the next as much.
3 a week starting next week, for 6 months, sounds exhausting :P. But its the only way I'd ever do a full read before The Great Ordeal release.

It wouldn't be a slog if it was over quickly, now would it? ;)
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 18, 2015, 07:54:31 pm
Damnit, you're right.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 19, 2015, 12:03:42 pm
How do we want to organize the threads for this?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 19, 2015, 02:58:50 pm
Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

The Slog of Slogs: TDTCB

etc. 

?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 19, 2015, 03:14:41 pm
Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

The Slog of Slogs: TDTCB

etc. 

?

Won't that muddy the conversation up a bit?  I don't know, a thread per chapter seems like too many, but only one thread per book seems like too little?

Maybe a thread for each week?  So, three chapters?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 19, 2015, 03:42:04 pm
Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

The Slog of Slogs: TDTCB

etc. 

?

Won't that muddy the conversation up a bit?  I don't know, a thread per chapter seems like too many, but only one thread per book seems like too little?

Maybe a thread for each week?  So, three chapters?

Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

Thats 30 threads. Seems like a lot.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: H on November 19, 2015, 04:06:58 pm
Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

The Slog of Slogs: TDTCB

etc. 

?

Won't that muddy the conversation up a bit?  I don't know, a thread per chapter seems like too many, but only one thread per book seems like too little?

Maybe a thread for each week?  So, three chapters?

Since I think doing a new thread per week is way overkill, how about a thread per book?

Thats 30 threads. Seems like a lot.

Oops, I read too quickly, I thought it said chapter.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Anasurimbor Phallus on November 20, 2015, 04:52:27 pm
Glad our ineptitude in activating new members didn't stop you.


Haha, actually I think I registered for this forum like 6 months ago, got a notification that the staff would have to activate me, and the totally forgot about it. it was a nice surprise to come back and be able to log in. Looking forward to this re-read.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 21, 2015, 01:18:04 am
Haha. I hope you find us somewhat more articulate than the One-Thread Famine at Westeros. It's hard to have in-depth discussion there.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: nicodante on November 21, 2015, 11:22:05 pm
I'm in too :) sooo excited for the next book, I've been waiting since TWLW came out :P does anyone else here listen to the GeekNights podcast btw? They talk about/mention PoN/Bakker all the time on it, and did a couple of shows where it was the main focus


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Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 22, 2015, 12:11:07 am
What, bakker in media? That's awesome. Post a link :).
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Camlost on November 22, 2015, 04:27:08 am
I thought I'd make a post to summarize where we're at as far as comments put forth so far, and to perhaps offer a suggestion as to pacing and organization. Please feel free to comment. There will be a summary to the following in the penultimate paragraph for those that are daunted by the length of this post.

As far as pacing goes, I'm not going to suggest an obligatory amount of chapters per week. I think many of us could manage all but the most rigorous reading schedules, but I also feel that detracts from the enjoyment; while it is meant to be a slog, I don't suggest we set a pace that would leave someone feeling behind or even excluded from the conversation for maybe not meeting the page count for that week.

So, given that we have five relatively dense novels, no doubt piles of forum discussion ahead of us, and several brave souls imagining they'll make it, it seems appropriate to set a starting date. In an effort to keep everyone at relatively the same pace (by all means, read ahead), I'd like to suggest bumping our start date to the beginning of December. That gives us roughly thirty weeks before The Great Ordeal hits shelves. Five novels in thirty weeks breaks down to about six weeks a piece. Now I only have my novel editions to go off of (Canadian Penguin MMPB) but the way it breaks down for me is a little more than 600 pages for TDTCB, about 730 for TWP, and roughly 500 for TTT. My copies of TJE and WLW (also Canadian Penguin editions TB) come in at slightly more than 400 and near about 600, respectively. Setting aside that I rounded my numbers for the sake of ease, that works out to just about 100 pages a week. If you're anything like me, I need to finish a chapter, but I think that is a rather reasonable pace to aspire to without wearing oneself out.

Secondly, and the rather more cumbersome if not an out right arduous task, is establishing a coherent and ultimately simple organizational pattern to not only keep us all on the same track but also keep us from constantly thread jumping. As such, I'd like to suggest two different patterns.

TDTCB and TWP both lend themselves to easy delineation. The former breaks down into five parts (the Sorcerer, the Emperor, the Harlot, the Warrior, and the Holy War) while the latter is broken down into three major parts (the First, Second, and Third March). I had toyed with the idea of dividing things by viewpoint characters, but that gets muddy and often plot points overlap each other. However, TTT describes was is ostensibly identified as The Final March, and while I suspect with a little effort we might find several salient plot points by which we might divide the novel, in this instance I'm going to suggest we subdivide by region--not simply because it might be easily done, but also because it makes for an easy transition to the following novels which follow the same pattern. As such, I'd recommend we chunk the first four chapters: Caraskand and Enathpaneah together, the following six: Xerash and Joktha, chapters eleven and twelve: Holy Amoteu, and finally the culminating chapters: Shimeh. This works out to anywhere from 100-200 pages per subdivision, but I think it makes for the easiest means of organization.

This brings me to TAE series. Narratively speaking, neither of these two novels follow a pattern similar to any of those in the first series. As such, I'm suggesting an organizational pattern similar to both TDTCB and TTT. In each novel we have several viewpoints (more added in the second) by which we might subdivide our discussions; however, as I mentioned previously, I feel organizing by viewpoint might cause for too much overlap between threads, so in an effort to strike at the heart of simplicity, I'd like to champion an organizational pattern by geographical focalization. In each novel, we largely have three main plot progressions occuring: Slog, Ordeal, and Momemn. By organizing the second series by geography, this allows us to incorporate those additional viewpoints that come up in the second installment (ie. Malowebi, Proyas) without developing a new system or over straining the current one. Because of the chapter pacing/breakdown in the second series this makes for a slightly different discussion thread dynamic, but I think given that they alternate with each other fairly regularly that no one thread should get too tripped up by most recent events.

So to put it all succinctly, I reckon about 100 pages a week starting at the beginning of December. Book length will determine how long we actively discuss it (don't let the pace discourage you from continuing to post on previous threads, or reading ahead for that matter). As far as thread breakdown: TDTCB would follow the five part division it sets forth in the novel, the same to be said of TWP, a four part division based on geography for TTT, and a geographical focalization for TAE novels (Slog, Ordeal, Momemn).

Please, please comment. Not that I wish we get bogged down by the minutiae before we've even started, but having everyone one the same page will go along way to keeping this outfit together. As comprehensive, and long, as I tried to make that be, I'm certain there are things I've overlooked, so don't hesitate to speak up or make a suggestion as to tweaking or changing things. Everything I've included are merely suggestions striving at the simplest way to go about this
Title: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: locke on November 22, 2015, 06:29:20 am
K.I.S.S.

It's an interesting approach to vary the read as outlined but I think the slog needs to move simply through the syllabus as methodically as possible in order to complete the reading by semesters end.  A highly regular and reliable reading schedule will be the logistical backbone ensuring success of the reading endeavor. 

I'd have never gotten through Rousseau Locke, Rawls weber and Nietzsche my first semester of college if I hadn't assigned myself a schedule of x per day early on.  Nope I wasn't a philosophy major that was just the reading for my honors class that replaced a generic humanities requirement. Funnily enough my other honors class I took that semester to also replace a humanities genes requirement had us reading all of the Aeneid, Ovid, Orlando furioso paradise lost, three Shakespeare plays, and Calvino.  That was a lot of reading, but no wonder my notebook margins are filled with notations of "this would be a great basis of a story!" From both classes. No wonder I like these series so much.


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Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 22, 2015, 04:03:39 pm
100 pages a week seems like a good idea, and chunk ing the discussions seems more reasonable than what has been suggested so far. Also, I definitely won't be able to start until December so I think that sounds like a good start date
Great post camlost.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: MSJ on November 22, 2015, 07:40:43 pm
I can start whenever and read whatever is suggested. I just hope something is agreed upon and set in stone. This is exactly what we need to be tuned in and ready for all that's Unholy. I know its not The Unholy Consult anymore, but in my mind it is.
Title: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: nicodante on November 23, 2015, 10:55:08 pm
What, bakker in media? That's awesome. Post a link :).

http://frontrowcrew.com/geeknights/20080626/the-darkness-that-comes-before/

There is more than one episode where they talked about the book a lot :)
I'm ready to start the reread in December also!
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 24, 2015, 03:15:10 am
Thanks for that, nicodante. Welcome to the Second Apocalypse. I like your cat :).
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Camlost on November 27, 2015, 03:45:24 pm
Time to depart for the journey boys. December begins next week and so too the Slog. I'm going to likely begin on Sunday and set up some threads to organize things as we go.

I suspect this probably isn't very many people's first reread and that there are a lot of heavily thumbed books out there, so don't hesitate to post even if you aren't reading but just have something worth mentioning/discussing. As I've also mentioned, feel free to read ahead.

As per locke's post:
Quote
A highly regular and reliable reading schedule will be the logistical backbone ensuring success of the reading endeavor.
Just referencing the books I have on hand, for TDTCB all of the individual Parts tend to be roughly 100 pages, perhaps 15-20 more on average. Reading one Part per week will easily keep everyone on pace, in fact it should put you slightly ahead of the pace we've set. I'll take a closer look at the following books as we approach them, but a cursory glance at TWP looks as if a decent guideline would be Ch. 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-17 (slight stretch there for discussion's sake), 18-21, and then round it off 22-25.

If more people feel that a syllabus of sorts will help keep them on track, I can spend a little more time putting together something more comprehensive than what is listed above.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 27, 2015, 07:43:38 pm
As said, I won't partake (except in winks and nudges), though I might help organize, but feel free to make threads in the Almanac (regardless if they adhere to my ridiculous expectations).

Strength on the Slog. Slog well. And to quote, with addition, my meager offering of epigram to TSA from my Untitled fan fiction on TPB:

Hold fast all revelation. Each is but another flavor of ignorance. And for one last time shall you partake in ignorance before revelation so forcefully overturns all you've come to know...

EDIT: First Reread Thread (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1655.msg23241#msg23241)
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Camlost on November 28, 2015, 08:14:43 pm
I don't want to derail the discussion over in the Almanac before we even get started, so I figured I'd bring it up here. How would we like to handle spoilers? I was kind of under the impression that it being a reread that everyone would have already been familiar with the five novels. I had also naturally assumed that it being in the title ("reread" that is) that new readers would be hesitant if not previously aware were they to peruse this forum.

All that said it looks like some folks are thinking otherwise. So what do you guys have to say about it?
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Madness on November 28, 2015, 08:22:21 pm
Do open spoilers, Camlost.

Don't make it a discussion and alienate anyone (which I realize you are trying not to do by making this post ;) ). It's a headache. It's been done. You all enjoy your open spoiler reread extravaganza.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on November 28, 2015, 09:10:59 pm
Open
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: MSJ on December 01, 2015, 01:05:34 am
And thus the Slog begins. Rejoice in the madness that will follow fellow Bakkerite's! I shall read and post my thoughts later. As I feel this reread will enlighten me to all that is Unholy and I will unlock the secret of The Thousandfold Thought. Or, I'll just post my repetitive thoughts. Anyway, I've consumed my Quirri (Monster Import) and I'm game baby!
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: nicodante on December 26, 2015, 06:14:32 pm
I'm nearing the end of TDTCB already thanks to a long Xmas holiday with no Xbox - some questions that have arisen so far are:

Where are the fields of Eleneot exactly?

What were the consult doing in Sumna following Inrau/Akka and plying Esme? Just monitoring the mandate?


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Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: Wilshire on December 26, 2015, 06:20:13 pm
Monitoring the mandate, yes. Its implied that they are hunting down and killing all of the mandate informants, and likely following around their field spies. Remember the skin-spy in the first chapter.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: MSJ on December 26, 2015, 11:55:22 pm
Where are the fields of Eleneot exactly?

The fields of Eleneot are just East  of Tryse. Here is a great map made by Somnambulist.

http://spiralhorizon.deviantart.com/art/Earwa-4109-sm-489666427
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: nicodante on December 27, 2015, 12:47:09 am
Thanks guys :) is it ever made clear why they've decided to take more overt action and become more active at that time, after 300 years of being invisible?


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Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: MSJ on December 27, 2015, 02:46:37 am
Thanks guys :) is it ever made clear why they've decided to take more overt action and become more active at that time, after 300 years of being invisible?


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Hmmm, I think things are just coming to a head, so to say. Aurang, says at the end of TDTCB, that he will be free of this world very soon. So, I believe we're just seeing the beginning of what is The Second Apocalypse. That's my take anyway.
Title: Re: The Slog of Slogs: A TSA Reread
Post by: locke on December 28, 2015, 01:24:58 am
I'm nearing the end of TDTCB already thanks to a long Xmas holiday with no Xbox - some questions that have arisen so far are:

Where are the fields of Eleneot exactly?

What were the consult doing in Sumna following Inrau/Akka and plying Esme? Just monitoring the mandate?


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Not monitoring the mandate, monitoring the coronation of the new shriah.