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So a long time ago, on a message board far away (well, actually over here I speculated about the Dunyain aims and possible access to sorcery. There's also a great post from Nerdanel there on the end where he connects the dots to show that the dunyain were founded by Mek as a fifth column for the No-god in the north Which would mean that Ieva was a proto-dunyain agent.Anyway the gist is that Kellhus' information on the dunyain is curtailed by his lack of advancement within the organization.That the pragmas actually run things to an agenda that the majority of dunyain are ignorant of.Some bullet holes around which I wish to paint my target;The dunyain repudiate history in order to escape the darkness that comes before.We have proof of this in the text where they start transforming Ishual and in every recollection of Kehllus throughout the PoN.... but really? So why did Khellus know he was an Anasurimbor? Such a name is a huge menhir of TDTCB in the material world and moreso in the outside. Perhaps it's reasonable to assume that the name itself would be enough to attract the attention of agencies.. esp. Anasurimbor ancestors ... e.g. Celmomas.The dunyain knew enough of metaphysics to know how to escape the darkness and condition ground. It is imortant to isolate the students, but the pragmas also had to be constantly eloborating training techniques etc. The teachers have to know enough history to condition the ground of the students. Easy to assume there are many things they know that the students do not.Why Ishual? I think they knew where it was and who they might find there.Why send Kehllus to kill Moe. All the dunyain Moe touched via dreams had to die anyway, why not send them - one could pretend to be Khellus. Kehllus was a star pupil, hadn't bred (probably) and therefore a valuable asset.Why send out Moe initially? Again, star pupil, many better choices. I'll suggest that whenever an Anasurimbor passed basic training he got bred then shot into the wilderness and Moe was simply the first to make it to civilization. (pragma's being mindful of the prophecy and not keen on an apocolypse ruining their project).
Great stuff. I'll try to respond in more depth later. I think many have had problems w/ circumstances by which Moe was allegedly exiled and the justification of why Kellhus was sent after him....I also will reiterate that there's a palpable panic amongst the readership over the possibility that Kellhus is the only Dunyain left in the story...if he's even Dunyain anymore.
I'll just add - Dunyain = Inri Sejenus for Nerdanel (I'm not sure who actually came up with that one).Yeah, Trisk, in the Almanac it seems evident that Kellhus tells Cnaiur five things before deciding to decide him only with the Truth.Also, Second Foundation as lockesnow mentioned, Dunyain Ishterebinth/Conditioned World as I suggested...Is the story of Moenghus' pollution a fraud? Perhaps, Moenghus was Kellhus 1.0 - that is, he was the Dunyain Pragma's (Philosopher-King) first attempt at dominating the South? Kellhus is sent to assess what happened when they learn their agent is still alive.
Isn't there a thread somewhere around here where this and other bits of the dunyain and their goals/ hidden goals was discussed. I'm sure there is but can't remember where.
Lol. Cishaurim (Second Foundation), Interlude: Ishual, Dunyain and Nonmen (Conditioned World), Saccarees & the Dunyain?Also, some extensive thoughts in the Almanac, any chapters which features Dunyain... so at this point I think Prologue and Ch. 12 - also Ch. 6, Moenghus Flashbacks.
was this the Nerdanel thread where he posted (after TTT came out) the irritated response along the lines of "it's really annoying to have a complete self-contained, reasonable meta-theory shot down by something the author says/next book"? That is my single favorite quote from the old three seas forum.
+1 Nerdanel. Lmao.
Quote from: WilshireIsn't there a thread somewhere around here where this and other bits of the dunyain and their goals/ hidden goals was discussed. I'm sure there is but can't remember where.I don't keep up with all the threads, and frankly one would need a meta-index, things go off topic so quickly. I did scan thread titles before creating this one though. I do remember being poo-pooed for these ideas on Westeros when I brought them up.I was thinking the preservation of Kellhus' family name is a rather convincing arguement for the basic premise, and wanted to continue the discussion.
Didn't mean to offend, the search feature would be nice if it worked :roll: (does it? i havent checked in a long time). I was hoping someone would know what I was talking about and direct you to it. Im not always purposely inflammatory.
No worries Wilshire
Search function doesn't work. Still trying to figure that one out .
