[TUC Spoilers] (or maybe not) - The Daimos

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Cüréthañ

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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2017, 02:48:01 pm »
I think you are quite right. Given that sorcery also depends on the Outside for power, there is an argument for it to be classified as of a kind.

Other points;

In the Knife of Many Hands we learn that a Ciphrang can be implanted in 'special' humans (specifically a Holga or whatever they are called) and does not leave a Mark.

Practioners (Iyokos) may be blind. Like Chisaurim.

It seems to be at least similar to power that Outside agencies use given the two way connection between ciphrang and summoner.

Prime difference seem to be that it does not use language to hinge meaning. Should we regard language as an intrinsic part of sorcery, I wonder?

It seems reasonable to suggest that Seswatha's Heart is diamotic by effect.
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Yellow

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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2017, 05:34:56 pm »
Wow, never connected Seswatha's heart with the Daimos, but thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. Maybe Kellhus is controlling Akka's dreams through the Daimos?

Need to re-read KOMH, don't remember that aspect of it you mentioned. :)

Edit: I wouldn't label language as an intrinsic part of sorcery at all, just one of the methods one can use. The correlation between meaning and language makes it very useful and teachable, since it is intellect-dependent.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 05:38:15 pm by Yellow »
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2017, 02:09:31 pm »
The Daimos is not simply about summoning Ciphrang, perhaps we should look more closely at it's metaphysical attributes.

Something I noted from the glossary

"elhusioli The daimos of excess.  As per standard Kiunnat metaphysics, souls directly move other souls, impart the imprint of daimos upon another daimos.  Some, such as terror or enthusiasm, are set apart for the dramatic nature of their effect."

It seems that there is both Daimos as sorcery, and daimos as a concept.  The Ordeal seems to experience extremes of excess, terror and enthusiasm at various times.  Does the intense emotional experiences of thousands and thousands of Ordealmen provide momentum for Kellhus or Ajokli?

Also I note the contrast with the extreme dispassion of the Dunyain, who seek to become self-moving souls

I can't wait to dig into the Expanded Glossary. This helps to understand Cüréthañ's perspective more.

Good catch. So Daimos is a principle, like Logos or ...phusis(?) - sorry, can't remember what the "physical" principle was called, as referred to by Crabicus in TGO. Also, there's the Psukhe, of course, for emotions.

This had never occurred to me before, so I just went and looked up Logos in wiki, which led me to an entry on Heraclitus, which had the following quote:

Quote
Ethos anthropoi daimon, "character is fate"

This influential quote by Heraclitus "ἦθος ἀνθρώπῳ δαίμων" (DK 22B119) has led to numerous interpretations. Whether in this context, "daimon" can indeed be translated to mean "fate" is disputed; however, it lends much sense to Heraclitus' observations and conclusions about human nature in general. While the translation with "fate" is generally accepted as in Kahn's "a man's character is his divinity", in some cases, it may also stand for the soul of the departed.

So I take it the daimos is the principle or nature of souls and the Outside. And the Daimos as a sorcery technique is simply the mastery of the daimos as a principle.

Very cool, Yellow.

In the Knife of Many Hands we learn that a Ciphrang can be implanted in 'special' humans (specifically a Holga or whatever they are called) and does not leave a Mark.

Hmm... This is what you perceive that Shinurta did to Ratakila? Interesting.

If you haven't read Bakker's latest, The Carathayan, yet, Cüréthañ, FB thinks there's some Ciphrang related nuggets therein as well.

Wow, never connected Seswatha's heart with the Daimos, but thinking about it, it makes perfect sense.

Interesting.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2017, 04:58:29 pm »
Topic was split. Discussions related to this topic about the Diamos, please continue. Digression topics related Ajokli/Kellhus/Kelmomas please continue  here: Ajokli and the metaphysical whodunit.

Thanks.
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