[TGO SPOILERS] Aorsi/Dagliash

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spacemost

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« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2016, 09:15:18 pm »
As far as I feel compelled to comment on topic, and I think regurgitate many of my ARC discussion thoughts, I'd say that Kellhus didn't expect the Tekne artifact. Likewise, the Consult didn't expect that the Metagnosis would allow Kellhus to Sing away Dagliash and excavate the ruins of Nogaral from the Well of Viri. Probably the Consult hoped Kellhus and company would be beset at Dagliash long enough for the Tekne-Nuke to explode beneath ground and take them unawares, especially as a greater portion of the Ordeal would have been much closer to blast-radius (as the Ordeal's plan fixated on converging on Dagliash).

And as for Kellhus knowing what the "golden coffer" is going to do: all he has to do is recognize that there is a countdown and that he and anyone he still needs probably shouldn't be near it when it counts down (countdowns are bad, mmm'kay ;) ). After that, he can readily see what the consequences of the fallout are.
I read it as the Consult's Plan B. It doesn't make sense to me that they would throw away their nuke, their Sranc, and the army they had hidden in Viri all in one go -- seems more likely they were hoping the Ordeal would be defeated in battle, but if they were not, then the tekne-nuke was hidden under Dagliash to finish them off.

JRControl

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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2016, 10:59:12 pm »
But a below ground detonation is a serious waste of its power. He might as well have shoved the damn thing down under again. Things don't add up for me. Primary witnesses of him digging it up ended conveniently dead.
“Because you’re a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me, Akka. The old food pyramids have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Slimmest Path, and I say that you are not damned.”

generic

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« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2016, 07:13:31 am »

As for Kellhus deducing the radiation risk... He probably has some limited knowledge of Tekne, and has deduced the basic laws of physics. He could probably use his Metagnosis to peer into the nuke and deduce how how it worked, and then go from there.


Nah, I doubt that was the first nuke ever used. So there should be old Nonmen stories partly known to the Mandate.

MSJ

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« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2016, 09:49:38 pm »
Proof that Kellhus didn't know of the Nuke and thought the real threat was the Bashrag and chorae. And why the Nuke coming out of the well was a surprise.

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A legion …” Kellhus interrupted, his tone miraculously peeling aside the obstructing din. “Thousands lie concealed in the wrecked Viritic halls beneath our feet. Bashrag, Sranc . Sequestered here for days—weeks. Their stench rises through Dagliash as a soiled cloth.” Gwanwë, Saubon , everyone in the war-party, cast dumb looks at the ground. “Perhaps they anticipated our gambit,” the Holy Aspect-Emperor surmised. “Perhaps they hoped to catch us unawares after overcoming the Horde."

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We need only bar their exit,” Kellhus said.

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The Holy Aspect-Emperor of the Three Seas smiled in grim reassurance. “We set plow to the field,” he said in reply to her unheard question . The din had swallowed all mundane voices save his own. “We make the ground anew."

This was the plan, this is what Kellhus anticipated. It's why he wanted to make new ground of Dagliash, to negate the threat of the legion of Bashrag and Sranc and a multitude of chorae. It just so happens that while making this new ground a golden coffer appears, mind you, unbeknownst to Kellhus. Saubaon informed him of it. As for Saubon conviently dying, well I think he would've been sacrificed one way or another, and that made clear between Proyas and Saubon's interactions.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Titan

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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2016, 04:39:14 am »
As for Saubon conviently dying, well I think he would've been sacrificed one way or another, and that made clear between Proyas and Saubon's interactions.

I think he planned on sacrificing *one* of them, yes, but I think Kellhus was keeping his options open by grooming both of them for command in his absence. And at the time of the nuke, Saubon just happened to be the one closer to it.

MSJ

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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2016, 01:40:34 pm »
As for Saubon conviently dying, well I think he would've been sacrificed one way or another, and that made clear between Proyas and Saubon's interactions.

I think he planned on sacrificing *one* of them, yes, but I think Kellhus was keeping his options open by grooming both of them for command in his absence. And at the time of the nuke, Saubon just happened to be the one closer to it.

Well, don't you remember Proyas begged and begged to be the one to take Dagliash and Kellhus just...ignored him. It was giving to Saubon, because Nuke or not, Saubon was going to die that day. Proyas was Kellhus's only option to lead the GO in his absence.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Madness

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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2016, 04:31:12 pm »
I'm not entirely convinced that the Consult even intended to destroy the Ordeal with the nuke

Yeah, I'm not sure either way, just trying to think in terms of least complicated intention.

I read it as the Consult's Plan B. It doesn't make sense to me that they would throw away their nuke, their Sranc, and the army they had hidden in Viri all in one go -- seems more likely they were hoping the Ordeal would be defeated in battle, but if they were not, then the tekne-nuke was hidden under Dagliash to finish them off.

I guess it all depends on the trigger. Is it a countdown? Is Aurang there to detonate or just oversee the happenings of things?

But a below ground detonation is a serious waste of its power. He might as well have shoved the damn thing down under again. Things don't add up for me. Primary witnesses of him digging it up ended conveniently dead.

Lol. Well, Dagliash is built on top of a tower that plugged part of a low-set mountain length Well, which itself is the center of a former Nonman Mansion, which riddles the interior of that mountain...

I'd imagine a below ground nuke might be entirely effective in this circumstance. The floor would just give out below Dagliash and outwards to a good portion of the Ordeal I imagine.
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locke

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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2016, 06:29:16 pm »
I take it like this:

The consult has spent twenty years testing kellhus abilities and will be aware of his sensory abilities: meaning they know kellhus will smell the sranc and bash rag immediately upon arrival. Which he does.  There is no way they can be ignorant of this ability post ishual war.

But they still lay a trap they know will not work. But they lay a second trap hoping the first will conceal its existence long enough and they bait the trap.

The second trap is the nuke, they know kellhus will anticipate a second trap, and indeed, kellhus does as he immediately begins excavating In search of the trap.

But they have to bait the trap.

Aurang is the bait, Aurang appears in order to lure kellhus away from finding the nuke.

But here is where it goes pear shaped. Saccarees, does not summon kellhus to take the bait.

Kellhus as a result finds the nuke and is able to salvage the ordeal from certain defeat.




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Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2016, 07:27:23 pm »
I'll recapitulate my thoughts from the ARC thread that the purpose of the tekne-nuke was actually to destroy the Horde thereby destroying/irradiating the Ordeal's food supply. 

Think of the Kianene destroying the Nansur fleet off Trantis so the Holy War had to march without water.  Agongorea will be another trail of skulls.

Trying to kill Kellhus at Dagliash was a hopeful secondary objective.

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« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2016, 02:44:20 pm »
+1 both the previous posts, if I do quibble with a secondary implication or two.

Question is of what comes next? The Consult has to put up now.
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MSJ

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« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2016, 12:26:38 am »
I wanna know why the Ordeal doesn't have a fleet of the "flying ships" we see Kellhus use at Dagliash. Like why is this a new development? Why haven't that been using these to scout ahead and such? I mean, I can set here and think of a thousand uses for them. Same as the Nonman chariots, why walk when you can fly?

Wouldn't it be more efficient than the Cant of Translocation?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 12:30:43 am by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

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« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2016, 03:32:43 am »
Probably only Kellhus has the ability to create the floating platforms.

H

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« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2016, 11:55:45 am »
+1 both the previous posts, if I do quibble with a secondary implication or two.

Question is of what comes next? The Consult has to put up now.

Well, I actually think that the Consult realizes that killing Kellhus is essentially impossible.  I think they are focusing more on simply destroying/ruining his plans now.
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MSJ

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« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2016, 03:05:45 pm »
Probably only Kellhus has the ability to create the floating platforms.


See, I don't get that. The Nonman had chariots before The Raft, and they didn't use the MetaGnosis.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

themerchant

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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2016, 03:32:48 pm »
Probably only Kellhus has the ability to create the floating platforms.


See, I don't get that. The Nonman had chariots before The Raft, and they didn't use the MetaGnosis.

those have the locomotion of horses running across the echo of the ground.

This is huge platform with locomotion provided by the metagnosis.

I'd say it's easier to move let a chariot run across the echo of ground, than fly a huge platform with hundreds of folk on it.

I obviously don't know, just my reading.