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Messages - Hiro

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Foreshadowing in the books.
« on: September 01, 2017, 07:33:52 pm »
Quote
The attempt to bend the Holy War to Nansur interests had been a daring gambit, they all agreed, but so long as the brilliant Conphas marched with them, the Emperor might still succeed. Conphas. A man like a God. A true child of Kyraneas, or even Cenei—of the old blood. How could he fail to make the Holy War his own? “Think of it!” they cried. “The Old Empire restored!” And they raised yet another toast to their ancient nation.
- The Darkness That Comes Before, chapter 19.

Go Sherlock! That's a great find.

5
The Unholy Consult / Re: Big question about the consult's intentions.
« on: August 30, 2017, 10:49:43 am »

Fwiw, I interpret the 'oar' as the horde controlled by Mog also. They power and steer the Apocalypse as the no-god's tool and here are used to spank the Ordeal. There is no need for Bakker to invent yet another term for Tsuramah, but there is a need to differentiate the Horde from the Oar as a controlled swarm of sranc.
The Horde of the No-God is generally referred to as the Horde of the No-God (actually, has another name ever been used?). The Oars, on the other hand, are alluded to as being parts of the Ark. For example, here:
Quote from: R. Scott Bakker, "The Unholy Consult", Chapter Fourteen, "Golgotterath"
The Horns reared impossible, commanding all, the two great Oars of the Ark goring the belly of the sky.



Yes, the Oars referred to the Horns. Perhaps, probably, it took more time for the Carapace to power up, since one half of the Oars was missing. That seems like a partial explanation of the hologram, as well as the retreating Sranc.

Regarding the Sranc, I find the withdrawal, orderly as it is, a distinct signal of the coming of the No-God. The timing puts it right in the sequence of Resumption, it could also serve as a false signal to the Ordeal, keeping them close to the Ark while the hologram fools them, in order for the Ordeal to be annihilated afterwards.

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General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 29, 2017, 01:52:18 pm »
Mediocre episode. The final scene was amazing. The dialogue wasn't as bad as it can get, but nothing special otherwise.

Well...mediocre is a gentle assessment. I do have great issues with the dialogue. That Bran and Sam scene, for instance, the dialogue is so on the nose, and the jokes are so forced, shudder.

Another example, the Hound just walking up to the Mountain to have his say. Was that really the most organic way they could conceive of...?

Visually, absolutely amazing, from Drogon carrying Dany into the Dragonpit to the Ice-Dragon. Plot and character-wise? See my previous comments.

 :(

8
Introduce Yourself / Re: Aspiring novelist from Kevin's Watch
« on: August 24, 2017, 07:08:55 am »
Hello everyone!

Before I learned of Bakker through fellow Watcher Brinn (goes by another name here), it was easier to feel discouraged about working on a philosophical epic fantasy novel for the past 20 years, in virtual obscurity.  As Tolkien has said of his own work, my tale grew in the telling.  Now it has expanded into at least 6 books, the first of which will need to be broken into 2 or 3, depending on how much I can whittle down the 400,000 words I've got for book 1 so far.  Watching it grow has been not as much exhilarating as it is depressing.  (Sorry, couldn't resist ... 8) ... Madness gets it.)     

After learning about Bakker's experiences, I've been encouraged by his example.  Inexplicably, there appears to be an audience out there for unabashedly philosophical, thought-provoking fantasy!  Who would have guessed?  You crazy fuckers rock.  I've only been a lurker for a few weeks, so I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone.

Until the disappointing TUC, I was having difficulty deciding if Bakker was my 1st or 3rd choice for favorite fantasy author (you can probably guess the other two :) ).  I'm extremely impressed with his vision, prose, and intellectual rigor.  I'm moved by his evocative, conflicted, and enigmatic characters.  I'm jealous of the things he does that I could never do, but can't wait to show you all the things that are uniquely me. 

It's a wonderful time, for fantasy authors and fans alike! 

[Zarathustra" was taken.  I'm a mirror of my Watch self here.]

Welcome, fellow Watcher, glad you could make it.

9
General Misc. / Re: World War IV
« on: August 23, 2017, 09:50:01 pm »
I mean to say that I'm very confident that as soon as one's own life is at stake, of your own wife or daughter is raped and killed, one has no problem with morality, moralizing and clear moral choices.
...
The question therefore is, why can't you apply that personal stake to others as well? Which is succinctly expressed in various religions as 'do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself' (paraphrasing a bit here).
...
the dignity of our own life and that of others.
...

- Both of these points lead to the recognition that our own life and that of others are not separate. Therefore, a basis for morality being relative is tenuous.

Defending yourself doesn't make it moral: ie, Hitler defended himself until he gave up. Does that justify his war because he knew if he lost that he'd be killed? I don't think it does.

Defending another doesn't make it moral: All war could be justified as defending your compatriots against the evil invaders.

I think people hold their own lives in high regard, but not those of others. See: war, or any other act of violence.

So, imo, your points point out only the disfunction of beliving in some type of objective morality: that self preservation is the only thing that 'morality' ever leads to. I'd rather not live in a world where "I" am the only thing that matters, justified by each persons personal sense of 'what is right'. There isn't objective morality that I've seen - I think if there was, then we'd all agree on it, certainly after thinking about it for 2000+ years.

W, I'm not sure where you are coming from here. Or I've been extremely unclear. I do not recognize anything, of what you write in response, in connection to what I wrote, or at least meant:

I stated, in other words, that to extend morality outside your own life to the recognition that all life has value and dignity, is a worthwhile model of a non-relative moral. That's about the opposite of what you wrote down. Isn't it?




10
General Misc. / Re: World War IV
« on: August 23, 2017, 01:26:45 pm »
This is a loaded thread, and I hate to just leave a comment, like a troll, and not return for a while. But I'm still swamped in work. So the reason for this comment is that I've been thinking about the views on morality that were presented in this thread. They surprise me a little bit. Although, armchair philosophers that we are here, maybe not entirely.

Briefly, I think the idea of morality as something relative is fundamentally wrong. For a couple of reasons:

- (Straw man, but bear with me:) People who don't like moralizing view it as something divorced from their own concerns. I mean to say that I'm very confident that as soon as one's own life is at stake, of your own wife or daughter is raped and killed, one has no problem with morality, moralizing and clear moral choices. The question therefore is, why can't you apply that personal stake to others as well? Which is succinctly expressed in various religions as 'do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself' (paraphrasing a bit here).

- The reason that morality is not relative and can be based on something common to all is that all of us human beings share something upon which a shared sense of morality can, and I believe should, be based: the dignity of our own life and that of others. Hard to see at times, easily taken for granted, but this whole existence and our ability to even debate is presupposes our being alive. This seems to get lost often, however, life is primary in the beginning, in the middle and in the end.

- Both of these points lead to the recognition that our own life and that of others are not separate. Therefore, a basis for morality being relative is tenuous.

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General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 23, 2017, 01:14:40 pm »
Another 2 cents added to this bowl:

Plausibility is dead and buried, with no possible resurrection by White Walker. For the sake of spectacle or something, the plot and character engines have gone bust.

12
General Misc. / Re: World War IV
« on: August 22, 2017, 07:07:53 pm »
As Winston Churchil said: The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Another one by Winston Churchill, although with an unknown reference:

Quote
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…

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General Earwa / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Nascenti of Zaudunyanicon
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:22:22 pm »
More cool stuff... thanks for sharing.

Sarl -   :o - with Kosoter...?

What about the tapestries, any light on the meaning and whereabouts of the Ekkinû, for instance?

15
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Serwa and Kelmomas
« on: August 14, 2017, 09:02:12 pm »
Hi Ordealpeople

Since it come up in this thread & in lieu of starting a new one, anyone have any ideas how Kelmomas physically got into the Golden Room? I know it's been discussed the Serwë skinspy snatching him up some point, which I don't remember happening. Barring that, my assumption is he was trailing in Ajokis' footsteps, and can just move about Narindar-like because he's the No-God.  Or something like that.

Hi Fellow-Slogger,

Kelmomas was led by a Skin-spy, who know the lay of the land and the Ark. I assume they used the tunnels under the Occlusion, after which, as the Skin-spy knows the Ark, it took Kel up to the Golden Room.

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