Daimos, Dagliash, & Kellhus

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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:10 pm »
Quote from: Madness
+1 for the former part.

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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:19 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Anasurimbor Bob
Well to me what kellhus discovered in the outside is how to create his own "Ground" like the greater Ciphangs do there as well as possibly send,against his/her will people from Earwa there thus"destituting"(The use of that word being made on purpose and hinting about another form of sorcery long thought lost :mrgreen: )them.
So what are you suggesting about this new ground?

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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:26 pm »
Quote from: Madness
AB seems to be appreciating my Nerdanel of Moenghus and Kellhus being able to create their own realms of Desire in the Outside with the deaths of their followers - I'm pretty sure he's not using Grounds to refer to the more traditional Planets interpretation.

Echoed in other posts that Kellhus is somehow collecting souls in his own Outside realm, stopping them from reaching Yatwer or any of the other Hundred.

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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:33 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Quote
"You speak as thought the Thought were a living thing."
...
"Because it is."

Perhaps TTT is the architect of a realm in the Outside.  Moe and Kell are it's prophets.
Quote
The Darkness that Comes Before

Frontispiece:
I shall never tire of underlining a concise little fact which these superstitious people are loath to admit—namely, that a thought comes when “it” wants, not when “I” want . . .
—FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL

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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:42 pm »
Quote from: Camlost
Might Kellhus' establishing of his own realm within the Outside lend some illumination to Ironsoul's comment in Cil-Aujas (sorry I don't have my JE to reference) that is something along the lines of "If this were Hell I'd remember it"? If I'm not mistaken, there is a moment where Akka reflects that Ironsoul must be Zaudanyani (I know that is not even close to the right spelling but I imagine you guys will know what I mean), and he certainly must be someone of significance within Kellhus' schemes given that he accompanies Nil-Giccas and plays host/guardian to our favourite Wizard. Could this be interpreted, in light of previous posts, as corroborating Kellhus' direct agency in the Outside?

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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 04:00:49 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Does Kellhus plan on playing a sort of intermediary role and thus prevent himself from falling into damnation (is this the trick the ciphrang have used to not fall into damnation?)?

For example, X prays to his ancestors, his ancestors are his intermediary, the intermediary petitions the god.  X cannot contact the god directly, so he must first reach an intermediary, and that intermediary, could be ancestors, a 'god' (yatwer), or a powerful prophet (sejenis, fane, ajencis) can contact the god.  Kellhus could be trying to achieve that role and secure for himself a place that is not damned.

iirc there's a christian interpretation that used the intermediary idea to explain how man -> Jesus -> God that Jesus intercedes on man's behalf.

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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:02 pm »
Quote from: Madness
"'Anasurimbor Kellhus!' the Captain raved at the survivors. 'He is the God!' And this' - he swung Hurm's head so that blood flew from the crimson lobes of its mouth - 'is His work!'

Achamian could only watch with detached wonder, the kind that afflicts the survivors of sudden catastrophes. He saw well enough. He knew well enough. And yet none of it made the slightest sense.

...

The Captain, it seemed, was a Believer.

Zaudunyani" (WLW, p295).

Cheers, Camlost. I'm going to feel your semester overload, in a week or so. Glad to have your perspective.

lockesnow, I have to assume at this point that Kellhus knows how to play the Hundred. And I also Nerdanel that Moeghus created his own Realm via his sect of Cishaurim dying at Shimeh, and thus plays benjuka from the Outside.

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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:11 pm »
Quote from: Anasurimbor Bob
Quote from: Madness
AB seems to be appreciating my Nerdanel of Moenghus and Kellhus being able to create their own realms of Desire in the Outside with the deaths of their followers - I'm pretty sure he's not using Grounds to refer to the more traditional Planets interpretation.

Echoed in other posts that Kellhus is somehow collecting souls in his own Outside realm, stopping them from reaching Yatwer or any of the other Hundred.
I did indeed use the term "ground" to refer to a metaphysical realm in the Outside.Also I cannot help but to wonder if certain Nonmen managed to go to the outside,like Kellhus did and were for some them,replaced by Ciphrangs and if so what if those nonmen who managed the crossing were users of Apropos,I mean this could be tied to the ban of the said discipline.

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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:19 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Well, there is the Ciphrang Throughout History thread, which takes that as its focus. According to Maleowebi, at least, there have been instances of possession and those possessed become beacons of fruitless destruction...

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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:26 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
Mimara saw Kosotor as a ciphrang, right?  he's something of a beacon of destruction.

I mean if you're going to send a bodyguard with the Ring of Power, why not send a bodyguard of demons?

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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:36 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
Define "saw".

She thought of him as mr. big evil.
I thought she only "saw" (JE) that he was a tad more damned that anyone she'd ever gazed upon.

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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2013, 04:01:44 pm »
Quote from: Madness
"The Judging Eye, which had remained sealed for so long, opens.

And she sees them standing in a ragged arc, demons on the plain. Their hides charred, the hair of their few redeeming deeds the only light threading them. And the darkest, the most fearsome by far, lies directly before her… kneeling. The Captain.

"Princess-Imperial," it croaks, glaring from eyes of fiery tar. "Save us from damnation" (WLW, p644).

I think they're just damned... I certainly don't think this provides evidence to the Captain is Ciphrang theory. Though, the Daimos summons their Outside forms to the world. Perhaps, a Ciphrang's essence or soul trapped in the Captain's body would just look more damned.

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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2013, 04:02:03 pm »
Quote from: Madness
"She tells him what she has learned about the Captain and his mission. "He knows he's damned. We are his only hope of salvation - or so he believes. Kellhus has promised him paradise" (WLW, p673).

In retrospect, at this moment, my take away from this and forming opinion is that Kellhus is using the Daimos exactly like the Inchoroi have been using the IF. Show your followers that true damnation is far worse than anything you might imagine. Tell them you alone can promise the way past... to Oblivion or Redemption.

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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 04:02:32 pm »
Quote from: Triskele
Quote from: Madness
"She tells him what she has learned about the Captain and his mission. "He knows he's damned. We are his only hope of salvation - or so he believes. Kellhus has promised him paradise" (WLW, p673).

In retrospect, at this moment, my take away from this and forming opinion is that Kellhus is using the Daimos exactly like the Inchoroi have been using the IF. Show your followers that true damnation is far worse than anything you might imagine. Tell them you alone can promise the way past... to Oblivion or Redemption.

If that's the case it could be that Kellhus took the Captain to the Outside simply to create one of the most hardened souls imaginable to follow him...and yeah...it affect would be a lot like the IF.  Nothing else matters but salvation/oblivion/redemption.

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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 04:02:47 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Brain is working on overtime today.

I was rereading a bit of WLW and I've realized something...

Kellhus is constantly going back and forth between the World and the Outside!