Bakker and Tolkien

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locke

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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2013, 11:53:58 pm »


Achamian = Smeagol

Seswatha = Gollum
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 05:57:29 pm by locke »

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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2013, 02:46:58 am »
Moved for relevance - and cause it is a worthwhile topic in it's own right. Hope that's kewl.
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locke

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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 06:10:53 pm »
Indeed, I thought this thread existed but I didn't see it anywhere.

I also think that Bakker is the sort who would find the frodo model of hero boring, but would be fascinated by the dual personality possibilities in making a Gollum/Smeagol the hero. 

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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2013, 11:54:58 pm »
Indeed. Sarl seems to be going to satisfy Gollum in some regard, especially with the Captain braided to his beard and the whole dead bouncing thing - though that might as easily refer to Moenghus and Meppa as Mimara's child and the Captain.

Also - since I've found a Silmarillion again and I've been perusing PON wiki:

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Francis Buck

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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 06:10:58 pm »
Speculated this before on Westeros, but I've wondered if the Inverse Fire has some kind of thematic link to Tolkien's Secret Fire (being, perhaps, the anathema of life, that which destroys souls, and that perhaps the No-God's carapace is a method of mobilizing the Fire itself). In any case, I do tend to believe that the Inverse Fire is more than just a way of experiencing Damnation, based on the odd, almost reverent-like quality the Consult treats it with.

And then of course there's the obvious connection between Morgoth's twisting and corruption of life, since he can't create it anew, and the Consult's Tekne, which is results in soulless lifeforms (they can't make new souls).

Also noted that the Nonmen seem like a combination of Elves and Dwarves, what with their subterranean lifestyle and reputation for craftsmanship.

Wilshire

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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2013, 09:48:15 pm »
Also noted that the Nonmen seem like a combination of Elves and Dwarves, what with their subterranean lifestyle and reputation for craftsmanship.
Good point. Most authors tend to recreate their own versions of dwarves and elves, but much less often are the two concepts combined.
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2013, 10:31:12 pm »
Like the thoughts.

Are the Anasurimbor stand-ins for the Kings of Numenor, what with their Nonmen blood and partially extended lifespan?
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locke

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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2013, 11:50:32 pm »
Yes

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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2013, 02:21:09 pm »
Noldor and the Nonmen?
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Galbrod

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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2013, 09:21:59 pm »
Concerning the the mix of man and nonman blood in the Anasurimbor line, having Bakker's Tolkien theme in mind, do you think that it is a coincidence that the terms dunyanin and dunedain look so alike? (the Dunedain are a man/elvish mix hiding for an extended period in time on the outskirts of Middle Earth, the Dunyanin breed a man/nonman mix while hiding for an extended period of time in a cave system).

Wilshire

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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 01:47:03 am »
Concerning the the mix of man and nonman blood in the Anasurimbor line, having Bakker's Tolkien theme in mind, do you think that it is a coincidence that the terms dunyanin and dunedain look so alike? (the Dunedain are a man/elvish mix hiding for an extended period in time on the outskirts of Middle Earth, the Dunyanin breed a man/nonman mix while hiding for an extended period of time in a cave system).
Coincidences arn't nearly as fun as purpose. I like it.

EDIT:
I may have had this thought a few years ago but never brought it up. Or maybe it fits strikingly well and I just think I should have noticed it. Either way, awesome.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:38:15 am by Wilshire »
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Francis Buck

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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 02:10:49 am »
Concerning the the mix of man and nonman blood in the Anasurimbor line, having Bakker's Tolkien theme in mind, do you think that it is a coincidence that the terms dunyanin and dunedain look so alike? (the Dunedain are a man/elvish mix hiding for an extended period in time on the outskirts of Middle Earth, the Dunyanin breed a man/nonman mix while hiding for an extended period of time in a cave system).

Awesome catch, I never would have noticed that but it definitely seems legit. I'm already of the mind that Dunyain are part Nonman, in some way.

locke

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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 02:41:50 am »
goes back to the originators of the anasurimbor line, the rape of omindalea led to the birth of sanna jepthera "two heart" iirc, a nonman, human hybrid. 

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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 02:55:40 am »
goes back to the originators of the anasurimbor line, the rape of omindalea led to the birth of sanna jepthera "two heart" iirc, a nonman, human hybrid.
I cannot fathom why some of those entries were not published. Lets hope for an expanded encyclopedia.

Anyway, that made me wonder, was that an isolated incident? Or was it important only because it was with an Anasurimbor, which was presumably something like a royal family at the time?
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Galbrod

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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 05:52:25 am »
Kellhus as a Machiavellan Aragorn (a prince appearing out of nowhere).