The Inchoroi

  • 167 Replies
  • 70708 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 04:22:57 pm »
Quote from: Triskele
Quote from: Auriga
- They seem to have fixed roles (Aurang is military, Aurax is a tekne scientist), rather than tweaking their own DNA and brains to fit many different tasks.

Do we have any textual confirmation on the role of Aurax?

I certainly recall references to Aurang being the Horde-General, but I do not recall any references to Aurax beyond him being a brother to Aurang.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:05 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Triskele
Do we have any textual confirmation on the role of Aurax?

The Thousandfold Thought appendix:

Aurax (? - ?) - A surviving Prince of the Inchoroi. Very little is known of Aurax, save that he is a ranking member of the Consult and twin brother of Aurang. Mandate scholars speculate that it was he who first taught the Tekne to the Mangaecca.

The False Sun:

It was just as Aurax had said: Truth becomes ignorance when Men make gods of Deceit. "I know how this sounds,” Shaeönanra said. “But what of the Ark? The Inchoroi? They prove the existence of other Grounds, do they not? Grounds like our own!”


We don't know much about Aurax, but from these scraps of info, we can infer that he's a "guru" character and a thinker, rather than a doer. The part about him teaching bio-tech to the Consult is a big hint. I have no idea what role Aurax has in the current Consult - the dude is only mentioned once in the False Sun.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:12 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I'm a +1 for Aurax being the Inchoroi at the end of TWP. Different speech patterns from all evidence of Aurang's activities.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:19 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Madness
I'm a +1 for Aurax being the Inchoroi at the end of TWP. Different speech patterns from all evidence of Aurang's activities.
I don't think the book says outright if the rapes at the end of TWP are done by Aurang or Aurax. It seems to be the latter, though, because we haven't yet seen Aurang communicate by telepathy and refer to himself as "we".

I have no idea what the relationship between the two brothers is, though.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:26 pm »
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
Also Kellhus mentions that Aurang is at Golgotterath while his consciousness is within the Synthese stalking the holy war.I don't think that he had the time to roam Akksersia interrogating people.So yes it probably was Aurax.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:38 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
Also Kellhus mentions that Aurang is at Golgotterath while his consciousness is within the Synthese stalking the holy war.

+1 for description.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:46 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
Also Kellhus mentions that Aurang is at Golgotterath while his consciousness is within the Synthese stalking the holy war

Yeah, he says at one point that he could see Aurang's body asleep in Golgotterath, surrounded by the Mangaecca sorcerers who kept him connected to the Synthese.

I wonder what the mechanics behind the Synthese are? The man who interrogated Esmenet and pumped her full of black semen, was he a Synthese or was it Aurang possessing some random guy (the same way his mind possessed Esmenent in the third book)?

Maybe I'm totally wrong here and it wasn't Aurang at all, but just a skin-spy?

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2013, 04:23:54 pm »
Quote from: Madness
You might want to gander at:

The Synthese/V. Bird
TDTCB, Ch. 9
Esmenet & Aurang

;)

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:02 pm »
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Curethan
I have specualted in another thread that the Inverse Fire was, in fact, developed as a neurological tweaker designed to remove certain inhibitions and tendencies - something to cure Bakker's Blind Brain condition, enable the ultimate warrior or get everyone behind the same socio-political mores, perhaps. 
In practice, it removes compassion and empathy and as a side effect it somehow allows one to glimpse/experience the fate that awaits them in the afterlife
The inverse fire has the intention to...?

As a side effect it shows...?

Okay, I'm being picky on a side point, but describing the inverse fire as an intention or that knowledge of the damnation machines presence is merely a side effect - this is dressing things in human robes!

RAW knowledge! Impacting - there isn't an intention involved here - raw knowledge of horrific torture for eternity! Horrific torture for eternity!

Someone decided to remove inhibiition and tendencies? No - RAW knowledge of horrific torture for eternity! JUST that. No intentions!

Okay, just had to get on that side point. And the books prompt little rants, so it's not my fault at all that I wrote this! (oh, that's so bad of me to even write in jest!)

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:09 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
Um, what?

I was describing as a manufactured object that had effects other than those intended.  Like a TV show for kids that induces seizures.

There are naturaly occuring windows into Hell (Topoi) and they don't match the IF in description or effect.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:18 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Curethan
There are naturaly occuring windows into Hell (Topoi) and they don't match the IF in description or effect.

I had never actually thought about this before - the IF either shows the Hellish Outside or it doesn't - but we don't actually have any textual evidence that there's a discrepancy, right? What Shaeonanra recalls seeing in the False Sun isn't enough to say that it doesn't reflect Topoi.

Also, thinking now, I'm not sure they would even reflect each other. I like the thoughts about the IF causing neurological change, like the TV analogy above, however, Topoi reflect the bleeding of the Outside into the World and the Wight brought his entire experiential frame with the Seal.

To me the difference is markedly in experience. One (the IF), we're theorizing to have immediate changes in long-lasting behavior, the second (Topoi) have to be internalized and digested within the normal gamut of experience (how we make sense of and explain dreams, waking life, altered states)...

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:26 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Madness
To me the difference is markedly in experience.

This.

The Topoi are windows into the afterlife, an "echo" of Hell if you will. Looking into the Topoi is much like standing behind a window and looking at Hell from a distance. It's not a direct experience, just a faint echo. You can obviously see the damned (in dreams, altered states, etc) but they're at a distance and fundamentally disconnected from you. 
The Inverse Fire, on the other hand, makes you directly experience the worst suffering in Hell. It's far more personal. It doesn't give you a look at the damned in the Outside, but an actual first-hand feeling of what they feel. The descriptions we get of the Inverse Fire aren't totally unlike Mimara's nightmarish visions of Galian's fate after death.

(I've also speculated about the Inverse Fire being a neurological weapon that changes the brains of people. Not unlike Scött's other book, Neuropath, where the character Neil makes people experience reality differently.)

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:34 pm »
Quote from: Madness
See, I imagine that slightly different.

I figure the IF for either a total window experience (like watching the most horrifying porn ever) or, let's say, a total embodied experience (this speculated immediate, permanent neurological change). No halfway on the gradient for the IF.

Topoi on the other hand are experienced like dreams, altered states, and "normal" consciousness. I feel like there's no opportunity for conscious internalization or digesting with the IF but Topoi or the Wight's Seal do... whether sanity or madness ensue.

Not sure how much I'm actually agreeing, disagreeing, or just seeing things differently. As I said, never really thought about this "experience the Outside gradient" before today. Collecting thoughts.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:42 pm »
Quote from: bbaztek
Crackpottery ahead:

There are female Inchoroi. They inhabit the Nail of Heaven mothership. Female inchoroi are the leaders of the primarily all-female inchoroi race, who are a sexually enlightened race that came to prominence ages ago. The Inchoroi base their society on the divine power of sexual union, and how peak experiences are vehicles for the contemplation and understanding of God. Connection between souls, all the way up from having a conversation to sexual activity, is seen as the ultimate realization of the God's purpose for Creation. Love is the rule of the real Inchoroi society.

Their vision of damnation is what prompted their old matriarchs to construct the mothership and send the inchoroi in every corner of the universe to prevent their sexualized yet enlightened lifestyle from being snuffed out by fear of damnation. Realizing the need to seal off the Outside as soon as humanly (inchoroily?) possibly, they created the male inchoroi who were an inversion of everything true inchoroi stood for: using sexuality as a tool for domination instead of love and peace.

Essentially female inchoroi use male inchoroi as their mad dogs to subjugate as many worlds as possible because as horrific as the male inchoroi's methods are, the ends are justified by the means.

This of course comes to a head at the end of TUC when the protagonists learn that they are actively working to ensure the spiritual damnation of an enlightened and progressive race.

What Came Before

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Emwama
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
    • First Second Apocalypse
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2013, 04:24:52 pm »
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: bbaztek
There are female Inchoroi.

The Seswatha flashback in the third book implies that all Inchoroi are male and that the Ark is the "female" of their species - Seswatha basically says that Golgotterath is a dead womb. It seems that the Ark was a bio-mechanical thing and a mothership in the literal sense, which gave birth to the Inchoroi and then died upon crashing into Eärwa. (Of course, this seems to contradict Wutteät's comments about the Inchoroi traveling from planet to planet and waging an inter-stellar genocide.)

My own theory is that the Inchoroi aren't "male" or "female" in the human sense, but undergo sex changes whenever they land on a new planet.

(This brings up another point - was "Ganus the Blind" an alien?)