What do you believe? (Redux)

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MSJ

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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 11:59:40 pm »
Quote from: Tleilaxu
What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?

Absollute as there is nothing? Well, one, how could that be proved? Other than that, nothing would change. Is live my life to the fullest, being the best person I can be. And, well, it is what it is. I just don't see how that could ever be certain.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2018, 12:01:29 am »
What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?

All a guess, of course. Relieved and terrified. The terror would subside rather quickly and probably continue living on the way I've been, but with less "concern".
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:03:37 am by TaoHorror »
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2018, 02:18:14 pm »
Quote from: Tleilaxu
What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?

Absollute as there is nothing? Well, one, how could that be proved? Other than that, nothing would change. Is live my life to the fullest, being the best person I can be. And, well, it is what it is. I just don't see how that could ever be certain.
Interesting. Of course, my question was hypothetically speaking.

What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?

All a guess, of course. Relieved and terrified. The terror would subside rather quickly and probably continue living on the way I've been, but with less "concern".
Less concern because of no damnation?

TaoHorror

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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2018, 05:18:55 pm »
Quote
All a guess, of course. Relieved and terrified. The terror would subside rather quickly and probably continue living on the way I've been, but with less "concern".
Less concern because of no damnation?

Good question - I guess so - just the idea of that makes it seem my self-perceived failures are finite and maybe less frustrating ( just guessing, can't say for sure what my reaction would be if I actually come to know this ). That and the idea my whole life being visible to the cosmos makes me queasy even though I know embarrassment is an illusion, but still feel it. A few of my previous incarnations have been spiritually paranoid ( is someone out there just fucking with me! ).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:20:33 pm by TaoHorror »
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MSJ

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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2018, 10:08:13 pm »
Tao, please explain to me, how in our lifetime any of these questions would be answered? Aliens? Doesn't mean there isn't an afterlife.

ETA: nnot saying it won't shock the people of Earth, lose faith and so on. It just doesn't mean that a part of us (one that I feel will never die) doesn't go on to somewhere else, as I explained. A higher consciousness, so to say. I still don't understand that in any way shape or form there can ever be definitive evidence of nothing in the afterlife. You said Absolute, I would use the word Oblivion.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:40:03 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2018, 03:19:53 am »
Tao, please explain to me, how in our lifetime any of these questions would be answered? Aliens? Doesn't mean there isn't an afterlife.

I can't find a previous post referencing your comment - was it directed at me mistakenly? Direct me to the post ( maybe I lied ), but I believe/know there is an afterlife and can share my explanation reconciling the physical with the meta-physical ( probably will be viewed as sad among many of you - though simplistic, I'm pretty sure I've never come across same description - original TH material for those bored enough to hear it ).
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Wilshire

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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2018, 01:41:46 pm »
Quote from: Tleilaxu
What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?
...
I live my life to the fullest, being the best person I can be.

What would you do if you woke up tomorrow absolutely certain that death was absolute? How would your beliefs, your goals and your drives change?

All a guess, of course. Relieved and terrified. The terror would subside rather quickly and probably continue living on the way I've been, but with less "concern".

I think I'm somewhere along these lines regarding the initial question posed.

I honestly feel that the existence of an eternal afterlife drains all meaning from living. What is the point of your flicker of life when all that matters happens after? (rhetorical question, I'm not asking someone for an answer). I probably feel something along the lines of Koringhus and his jump off the cliff - if there is an eternity, might as well start it now. (btw, I'm not suicidal or recommending that anyone). Not sure how to articulate it otherwise, I just feel that life is far more meaningful when its all you have.

I also ultimately don't see a difference between the two options either, since a person can choose to live their life any way they like, regardless of their belief structure. People who do good, and people who do bad, exist on both sides of the line.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2018, 02:27:34 pm »
I honestly feel that the existence of an eternal afterlife drains all meaning from living. What is the point of your flicker of life when all that matters happens after? (rhetorical question, I'm not asking someone for an answer). I probably feel something along the lines of Koringhus and his jump off the cliff - if there is an eternity, might as well start it now. (btw, I'm not suicidal or recommending that anyone). Not sure how to articulate it otherwise, I just feel that life is far more meaningful when its all you have.

I also ultimately don't see a difference between the two options either, since a person can choose to live their life any way they like, regardless of their belief structure. People who do good, and people who do bad, exist on both sides of the line.

I take your point, Wilshire - there's something to that, if this is all we have, making it all the more important to live it. I suspect my survival instinct is at least above average ( making me a coward, he who runs away lives to run away another day ... point of pride with me  :) ). In the beautiful words of Roy Batty, "I want more life, fucker". I so so hope there's an afterlife, even if that means you're right in that it reduces the meaning/significance of said life ( unless of course it means eternal fire - in that case, I'm with you all the way! ). But, you're not necessarily correct - an afterlife is wide open, which could be our experience here is important for our growth after death ( and not a reward/penalty phase of existence, but continuation in some fashion ).
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MSJ

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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2018, 09:25:36 pm »
Wilshire, id say, that it dosmmesnt diminish our life here on Earth, its just the next step in the evolution in what we will ultimately end up becoming. I said, I think that what you do on Earth matters and, and where you continue cosmic scheme of things might be drastically different. These are the musings of a 2 year associate degree, Quality Control worker for Coke. Don't take em seriously, just what I think. And, I don't think it makes life any less worth living.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

MSJ

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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2018, 09:40:22 pm »
Quote from:  TaoHorror
]I can't find a previous post referencing your comment - was it directed at me mistakenly?

Excuse me. You never referenced anything Tao. I was simply Asking you how it could ever be proven, that's all. I'm not interested in a study, just your thoughts if you think it can be proven.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TaoHorror

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2018, 02:38:33 am »
Quote from:  TaoHorror
]I can't find a previous post referencing your comment - was it directed at me mistakenly?

Excuse me. You never referenced anything Tao. I was simply Asking you how it could ever be proven, that's all. I'm not interested in a study, just your thoughts if you think it can be proven.

We can't prove it to each other for the same reason we cannot see our souls, but we can prove it to ourselves. I'm open to I could well be deluded, but I claim I see God. I get it, the really real world has no color or sound and our brains are deliberately generating the conscious experience of color and sound for survival advantage ... but the beauty of this experience is Godly. Trees are purty. To me anyways  :D
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:40:31 am by TaoHorror »
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2018, 11:44:08 am »
I just don't follow why some people (not anyone here) would think that life ending (meaning nothing is after), if true, means that life is meaningless or pointless.  Consider, you know that a video game will end, but you still play it.  The whole point is to go through (with) it.

I don't know, I don't predicate meaning on continuance.  But I know my way of thinking about a lot of things isn't very representative...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2018, 02:20:48 pm »
Consider, you know that a video game will end, but you still play it.  The whole point is to go through (with) it.
I like that
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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2018, 06:31:15 pm »
I also ultimately don't see a difference between the two options either, since a person can choose to live their life any way they like, regardless of their belief structure. People who do good, and people who do bad, exist on both sides of the line.
Well, in one of the options, you die - forever- and in the other you're still around albeit not in the same shape or something.

I just don't follow why some people (not anyone here) would think that life ending (meaning nothing is after), if true, means that life is meaningless or pointless.  Consider, you know that a video game will end, but you still play it.  The whole point is to go through (with) it.

I don't know, I don't predicate meaning on continuance.  But I know my way of thinking about a lot of things isn't very representative...
I think it's because they predicate meaning on a "deeper" level of existence rather than the mundane physical reality we live in, and not having an afterlife for their souls excludes this deeper metaphysical existence.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2018, 06:39:14 pm »
I think it's because they predicate meaning on a "deeper" level of existence rather than the mundane physical reality we live in, and not having an afterlife for their souls excludes this deeper metaphysical existence.

Well said, thanks. Otherwise it seems to me we're just machines marveling that we know we are. If nothing more beyond what we can discover, why marvel at anything?

Another question: is the view there's nothing more for us preclude there's nothing more at all? Perhaps there are beings in the after, just not us ... that would be a real kick in the dick, wouldn't it?

So Wilshire/H ... let's say we definitely figured out the show doesn't go on. Would your state of being/view/self satisfaction be the same regardless if there was no metaphyscial reality at all vs there was, just for other species in the universe, but not for us? I think this is where the rubber meets the road on this ...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:43:34 pm by TaoHorror »
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