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Messages - sciborg2

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961
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: Bakker on Twitter
« on: February 14, 2014, 06:27:18 am »
I think of those ultra Goth kids on South Park who were clearly trying too hard.

Just slip from in-group to out-group on this one, and you can laugh instead of cringe.

 ;)

962
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Interesting article, though. Reminds me of Ray Brassier (author of "Nihil Unbound") who argues that entropy is the ultimate fate of everything, and that time as we know it doesn't "really" exist at a quantum level, so in reality everything is dead already.

That doesn't really make sense AFAIK. Did he talk to physicists before making that claim?

Seems to me that the universe being timeless is not the same thing as saying the universe has already experienced Heat Death. That feels forced to me.

963
Philosophy & Science / Quantum Mechanics - Interpretations & Implications
« on: February 13, 2014, 07:07:48 pm »
 Quantum Experiment Shows How Time ‘Emerges’ from Entanglement

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This is an elegant and powerful idea. It suggests that time is an emergent phenomenon that comes about because of the nature of entanglement. And it exists only for observers inside the universe. Any god-like observer outside sees a static, unchanging universe, just as the Wheeler-DeWitt equations predict.

Of course, without experimental verification, Page and Wootter’s ideas are little more than a philosophical curiosity. And since it is never possible to have an observer outside the universe, there seemed little chance of ever testing the idea.

Until now.

My notes:

If the universe is static from the outside, then it's like an object frozen? Like if someone is in another universe and could see ours? They'd see a giant (infinite?) black sphere?

Why is there a comprehensible past going into the present and then future if everything that happened already happened the instant the universe was made?

=-=-=

Next Up: Non-Locality? WTF?

964
Rick Strassman, M.D. - “Old Testament Prophecy – A Western Model of the Psychedelic Experience”

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Our clinical research with the naturally-occurring human psychedelic, DMT (N,N-dimethyltryptamine) sought to understand the relationship between the psychopharmacology of DMT and spiritual experience. Eastern religious systems, particularly Buddhist, provided the spiritual model which I, and previous investigators, believed would be most relevant to our research. However, unitive experiences of ego dissolution typical of enlightenment experiences were quite rare. Rather, volunteers actively related to what appeared to be autonomous, external alternative realties, while firmly maintaining a sense of personal identity. Old Testament descriptions of prophetic experience are replete with psychedelic content, and comport more closely with the DMT volunteers’ reports than a Buddhist model of enlightenment. This finding provides support for utilizing Old Testament prophetic literature as an alternative, Western model by which to understand and integrate contemporary psychedelic experience. It also suggests a means by which students of the Old Testament may access the state of consciousness out of which emerged prophetic Old Testament text.

965
Is the area they live in supposed to be Carcosa, or is the idea that the Lovecraftian forces -or at least themes- are seeping into the world as it marches forward technologically?

Not sure what's going on with Hart's kids if there's not an implied supernatural explanation. Maybe a huge number of people in the area are part of the cult?

966
Philosophy & Science / Re: Bohm and the Implicate Order underlying reality
« on: February 13, 2014, 06:30:48 am »
On consciousness causing the collapse of the wave function, I get the gist of it but have not really looked too deeply into the idea. All to say links are welcome!

I've definitely heard about Orch-OR...here's what I gather:

Until recent discoveries I figured it was one of the more out-there possibilities, though now with the new evidence it seems like it might be in the running.

Penrose seems to be a believer in what I understand to be Popper's three worlds, and as I understand it the brain connects to the mental/mathematical realm via quantum vibrations microtubules? (Apparently a naturalist named Massimo concedes the necessity of such a Platonic realm, so that's something.)

I know John Lucas, who has worked with or at least parallel to Penrose on showing the mind transcends computation, rejects the Platonic stuff but agrees with Penrose about the Godelian Argument showing humanity is capable of creative acts that are not simply results of indeterminism. Sadly my mathematical knowledge is not deep enough to be certain I get the Godelian argument or the rebuttals.

967
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 12, 2014, 07:18:48 pm »
My own reservations come from a sense of limited scope. I occupy such an insignificant slice of history (though I concede that I could be doing a lot more with yon slice). Maybe I would feel more fulfilled if I were to have access to more of existence, or maybe I should stop watching time-travel films.

So many of these films use the time loop as if it's original. At least Continuum makes you guess what kind of time travel it uses.

I've read time doesn't exist at the quantum level, and that it might be an emergent phenomenon only existing for those within the universe...which raises new questions about why things seem to follow rationally from moment to moment...might make a thread for this but want to do some reading.

968
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 12, 2014, 02:01:26 am »
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An interesting article, all in all. Reminds me a lot of the "total uncertainty" of Celia Green, in many ways.

Interesting coincidence that she's been recommended to me in varied circles this last week. The crazier subpersonals in my blind brain would dare to suggest it's Jungian synchronicity! ;)

Thanks, will check her out.

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Because there is no "I" in any real sense. Once those comforting illusions are broken, I can't go back and live a lie.

Maybe I'm clinically insane. I don't know. 

This makes me think of the question on Conscious Entities - If the I is an illusion who is being fooled? If there's no "you" who is suffering?

As for clinical insanity, I suspect many people are. I know my underlying feeling of indeterminism is a symptom of anxiety, but it does make things funner in the mental sphere as it leads to:

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I suppose that's one way of dealing with existential doubts, lol.

Heh, I think my brain exploded after nonlocality and what is apparently the lack of time at the quantum scale which allows for retrocausality!

I haven't even gotten to Hume's critique of causality itself...

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Panpsychism makes no sense to me. If "everything is conscious", what even counts as a "thing"? If my shoe is conscious, is any part of it separately conscious too? Is the (arbitrary but valid) object consisting of my foot inside the shoe a conscious mind?

Oh, I'm not an advocate for panpsychism, it's just that I recall a philosopher who noted emergence has to include proto-consciousness in matter. As I remember the critique regarding emergence is all physical emergent properties like liquidity/wetness are extant in some sense within the molecules that make things up.

Chalmers goes into a similar critique of emergence in Consciousness and Its Place in Nature (linking again for convenience)

969
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 12, 2014, 01:15:33 am »
Auriga, who said that last quote? I guess I've never really understood the idea behind big-M "Meaning", since things feeling meaningful always seemed subjective and thus a personal pursuit to me.

Why does the possible lack of Meaning prevent you from finding things that are personally meaningful?

(Also made a new thread to discuss stuff like Krippner's results here.)

970
Want to get people's thoughts about the Weird in real life. As this is a side hobby of mine feel free to say you think it's all bullshit. ;D

So some time ago I came upon this article about Krippner in the SF weekly.

The part that piqued my interest was:

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The knock on parapsychology studies has long been that any so-called evidence of ESP is usually limited to negligible effects only detectable after scouring massive bodies of data. "Those to whom this criticism has any appeal should be aware that the Maimonides experiments are clearly exempt from it," wrote Irvin Child, Yale's former psychology department chair, in American Psychologist, the APA's flagship journal. "I believe many psychologists would, like myself, consider the ESP hypothesis to merit serious consideration and continued research if they read the Maimonides reports for themselves."

Now I didn't have much knowledge about this stuff though I felt like I'd heard of Child before. Strangely enough I later met a former grad student of Krippner's, and I asked him why Krippner's attempts at replication had all resulted in failure.

Said student actually passed along a message from the man himself:
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First of all, our original dream telepathy results were repeated several times in our own laboratory. We published both the successful replications and the unsuccessful replications. All of these articles are referenced at the end of our book DREAM TELEPATHY (by Ullman, Krippner, and Vaughan). A meta-analysis of all the studies produced high significant results and was published in a 1985 article by Irvin Child in The American Psychologist, flagship journal of the American Psychological Association..

Several other researchers attempted to replicate our work. Both the successful replications and the unsuccessful replications have been published in the chapter by Roe and Sherwood in ADVANCES IN PARAPSYCHOLOGICAL RESEARCH, VOLUME 9 (edited by Krippner and Friedman). A meta-analysis of all these studies produced highly significant results. They were not as strong as the Maimonides data, probably because they used "home dreams" instead of "laboratory dreams," the latter involving psychophysiological recordings. In the lab, participants can be awakened once they have been in REM sleep for a while. For home dreams, participants are usually awakened randomly by telephone, hence many dreams are lost.

I'm thinking of buying the book, doubt I'll get Volume 9 of something I'm not really sure is real.

971
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: Conspiracy or paranoia?
« on: February 12, 2014, 12:08:27 am »
I prefer justified paranoia with no conspiracy.

No WMDs in Iraq, but Bush gets reelected?

The banks fuck up the world economy, pay some meager fines, and go after pensions as the new resource they want to gamble away.

People know about the injustices of conflict minerals and sweat shop labor.


All this is open information.

So why is there a need for conspiracy?

972
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 11, 2014, 11:17:21 pm »
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But everytime I say to me:"What can he tell me, that I don't know myself?" and I don't go.

You might be surprised. I didn't think therapy could help but it can be pretty great just to talk to someone who isn't in your circle.

@Auriga:

First, definitely read the link suggested by Phallus Pendulus as it's an interesting response to Ligotti.

Minor point on Philosophers - I'm obviously more sympathetic to McGinn's "Mysterian" idea but I think we might conceive of questions without being able to conceive of answers...and our inability results in us retreating to the easy ones inherit in materialism.

Just seems the more I read/watch/listen the less sure I am about the supposedly obvious conclusions. Hoffman, who deals with perception, dares to suggest Idealism is possible while noting we're not in a position to figure it out:

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Although the interface theory is compatible with idealism, it is not idealism, because it proposes no speci fic model of objective reality, but leaves the nature of objective reality as an open scientifi c problem.

Finally, regarding consciousness as an emergent phenomenon I've read critiques that this seems to lead to Chalmers' dreaded panpsychism anyway. IIRC the issue related to how the qualia of subjective experience emerge from non-conscious material.

973
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 11, 2014, 10:30:57 pm »
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Never heard of those Krippner telepathy experiments, either. Since this is the first time I ever hear about them, they can't have been especially convincing, so excuse me if I'm still seriously doubting that telepathy exists.

Oh, I wasn't saying telepathy definitely exists, just that there's so many weird results like the ones Krippner got and so many things left to be found. My point was that there's still so much weird stuff out there, which is why I mentioned the placebo effect. Basically my point was Krippner, who's never been convinced by his own unusual results after decades of work, still was driven by the curiosity of what might be possible.

Part of the reason to stick around is to see what unfolds, and part of it is to experience things yourself. Why I suggested the ayahuasca ceremony. If you're thinking of doing drugs anyway might as well try and do something that could change the way you perceive things. Curiosity seems like a good reason to stay alive.

974
Philosophy & Science / Re: Suicide or not
« on: February 11, 2014, 09:15:02 am »
Addendum:

Madness mentioned Krishnamurti, and I made a thread about the guy here.

eta: I should mention Searle, as he posits the physical body creates consciousness but there's still a possibility for free will. Here's a video.

eta: Maybe Searle is supposing a model for the mind like the one described here? Note other quantum consciousness possibilities here & here.

975
Philosophy & Science / The works and ideas of Krishnamurti
« on: February 11, 2014, 09:13:57 am »
Found this video, which has a biography and then some summarization of his works.

Note that Bohm, who I made a thread about yesterday, came up with his Implicate Order partially through his dialogue with Krishnamurti.

Here's the repository of his work.

Madness might better direct us to specific works.

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