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Messages - MSJ

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2266
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 08:37:10 pm »
Also, since I'm about halfway through TDTCB, my 3rd reread. I've seen a couple things early that point to Seswatha being a bigger part of this story. First, I believe right of the bat Seswatha is starting to manipulate Akka's dreams. He notes in one of his first dreams we see that when he looks in the mirror he see's himself and not Seswatha, notes how odd that is. Secondly, when he's meeting with Inrau and Sarcellus knocks him to the ground he whispers in Akka's ear, "Oh, how I've longed to do that!". Right there is a skin spy speaking to Seswatha and you would never pick that up unless on a reread. And, it enforces the idea, to me, that Seswatha is part of this thing hands on. It actually shocked me when I read it, like a subtle clue left so early on.

2267
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 08:21:05 pm »
Quote from: Bolivar on July 27, 2015, 08:11:54 pm
Shae. He's the OG of scheming in Earwa.

Moenghus though obviously I re read the scene where Iyokus takes Eleazarus for a post-mortem on the plains of Mengedda. I really feel like he knew every decision Kellhus would make, down to a frighteningly specific level.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Well, I can't say your wrong. He's just manipulating for the wrong side, yo!  Unless you subscribe that the Dûnyain are aligned with the Consult. I've lost that delusion. EAMD

2268
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Meppa is X (II)
« on: July 27, 2015, 08:16:12 pm »
Meppa, the man that is always on my mind. You know, I'd love Cnaüir to still have a part in this. My money is that Meppa=Moe(intellect)+Cnaüir (passion). But, the more I think about the scene where this supposedly happens, one thing strikes me. When Cnaüir is putting the chorae to Moe's cheek, he says that the God stares back at him or something along those lines. I'm not good on the meta parts of this series, but it seems, to me, to show that they are joining the god. Like, this is why Meppa's Water is so strong. Its like the God had a hand in this thing. Almost, like how Yatwer is intervening, the God is using Meppa as his tool. I have a rough time explaining what I'm meaning here, but that's the gist of it. It would definitely align Meppa against the Consult if that's the case. The God don't wanna be wiped out.

2269
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:53:29 pm »
Quote from: H on July 27, 2015, 07:47:30 pm
Quote from: MSJ on July 27, 2015, 07:21:05 pm
H,

I like the nugget you added about the Dûnyain being all about mission, the Celmommas Prophecy. I'm currently on TDTCB where Kel and Cnaüir are crossing into the Empire. And, the use of "mission" by both of them has come up at least 20 times, explaining the Dûnyain. So, a point is being made early and often by Bakker.

A major question is, who sent Moe out, to condition the way for Kell.  I think it was all part of the plan.  Once they knew they had the right specimen in Kellhus, they knew they had to send Moe out to condition the way for him.  The whole story of him encountering Sranc, so he had to be sent in to the world to "ascertain the extent of our exposure" is nonsense.  He was sent to find out of the world was ready for the Second Apocalypse.  It was and so Moe sent dreams back.  The Pragma that received them knew the real purpose, but knew they couldn't actually deceive Kellhus, he was their better and would see through it, so to preserve the sanctity of the mission, they killed themselves.  The rest were probably in the dark, so they took those Pragma at their word, it was the save the 'purity' of the order, sent Kellhus out too.

Yes, that's the hidden Manipulator who we're speaking about. They'd have to be behind it all. My money is on Seswatha, yet I could see this being some female Nonman magi. Because, we're supposed to get some big reveal on the feminine.

ETA: she would also explain the inhanced abilities of the Dûnyain if she is the "brood made" also. Damn, if that's the case, I hope there are multiple female Nonmen. You know, so the internet doesn't explode.

2270
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:50:50 pm »
Quote
I am torn. There would have to be some pretty big reveals  to have Seswatha fit the role, but I think something bigger must be behind Kellhus. His story is strangest of all, and Bakker hiding his POV post TTT was a brilliant stroke. Could go any way.

And I have felt the same. Yet the only that tugs me in this direction is Madness's reading of The Unholy. And, him saying it was reveal upon reveal. So, its doable.

2271
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:46:48 pm »
Wilshire,

I have never read Dune, but, I gather most of the regulars here have. I've seen the comparisons before. I bought the trilogy, just haven't made the leap yet. Thanks for your insight.

2272
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:21:05 pm »
H,

I like the nugget you added about the Dûnyain being all about mission, the Celmommas Prophecy. I'm currently on TDTCB where Kel and Cnaüir are crossing into the Empire. And, the use of "mission" by both of them has come up at least 20 times, explaining the Dûnyain. So, a point is being made early and often by Bakker.

2273
The White-Luck Warrior / Who is the Manipulator?
« on: July 26, 2015, 10:12:25 pm »
I think that anyone who has read the series, would agree that "someone" is manipulating events on Earwa. We've had many theories on the prowess of Moe, you could say the Gods, but who I claim it to be is Seswatha.

There has been several suggestions that we will find out that Seswatha HAD some alternative motive or wasn't who he was portrayed to be. I've done multiple rereads and I am in the process of one at the moment. And, I find that all signs point to Seswatha being the Master Manipulator.

First, what got this little theory of mine started, was that I found it to be weird that in The Sagas[/i,] Esme notes that Seswatha is never the described the same or he isn't described well at all. This is the very reason The Mandate gives no credence to it.  Also, is the fact of the "grasping" of Seswatha's heart. This seems eerily similar to Shae's soul trapping device described in the sample chapter.

I believe Seswatha took the Celmommas Prophecy literal and went to extreme lengths to make sure he was there at the end of the world. Akka has a dream where Celmommas confides to Seswatha the location of Ishual. I believe Seswatha sent the Dûnyain to Ishual and that they are his secret weapon. He realized that to truly defeat the Consult mankind would need a superhuman, a self-moving soul who could truly speak with the God's voice, enter Kellhus. He's the culmination of Seswatha's original plan.

Now, this takes nothing away to the theory that Moe was manipulating events of the first trilogy. In fact, during my current reread its glaringly obvious. I just say that Moe was being manipulated also, by the Dûnyain elders. To take a phrase from Lockesnow, the Dûnyain was just a Truman show. There true intent a purpose was only known to an elect few, the elders (or hell, maybe it will be revealed the Dûnyain women). So, the Dûnyain was just a tool of Seswatha to breed and create a humans that will be effective against the Consult during the 2nd Apocalypse. I believe that Magic was known to them just hidden and that they still have a huge part to play. They just won't be waiting inside of Ishual when Akka and Mimara get there. But, something will be....

Seswatha's other tool has never been a secret, The Mandate. This is how Seswatha is able to keep an eye over events and know when the time is right to set his plan into motion. And Akka is his tool. I believe why Akka has come to be a Prophet of the Past is to actually be Seswatha's hand in these events. I believe what will be waiting on Akka will be the Heron Spear, deep in The Thousand Thousand Halls.

I'm also positive that Meppa is his 3 rd tool in the events of the 2nd Apocalypse. I like to think that he is a combination of Moe's intellect and Cnaüir's passion. And that somehow he will play a crucial part in theses events.

Well, that is my theory on who is manipulating events on Earwa. Please rip it to shreds, or offer your opinions on who the manipulator could be.

2274
Literature / Re: Weapons in Fantasy
« on: July 23, 2015, 11:35:50 pm »
Cool topic! I like many you've mentioned, but my favorite weapons of all-time come from A Land Fit for Heroes. And its not til the final book The Dark Defiles, that they get that special touch.

Archeth, who is half human/Kiriath, has an assortment of Kiriath steel daggers (sharpest product in the world, duh). Long story short, she meets a Warhelm (a machine made by her fathers race used for......war!) and is trained how to properly use them. They are essentially an extension of herself, and when she needs them they will "jump" out of their holders and into her hands. Totally awesome and the names are too. Bandgleam, Quarterless, Laughing Girl, Wraithslayer and Falling Angel. And Ringil's sword Ravensfriend (also Kiriath steel), isn't too shabby either.

2275
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: May 18, 2015, 05:31:41 pm »
Thanks Alia, yea, I've read them pretty much straight through. I love Morgan's writing, he reminds me a lot of Bakker. Maybe not in prose, but, he has plenty of mysteries and leaves a lot for you to dig through on your own. I've never done any SF before, Morgan seems a good place to start as any. Thanks again!

2276
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: May 16, 2015, 09:44:24 am »
Just about halfway through The Dark Defiles, a really great series. Morgan is one of my favorite authors now, and was wondering if anyone has read any of his other books, and your thoughts on them.

2277
General Earwa / Re: Crazy Ass Speculation Thread
« on: May 04, 2015, 02:34:06 am »
The Judging Eye~Autumn 19 New Imperial year (4131 Year-of-the-Tusk) to Spring 20 New Imperial year (4132 Year-of-the-Tusk)

The White-Luck Warrior~Spring 20 New Imperial year (4132 Year-of-the-Tusk) to Late Summer 20 New Imperial year (4132 Year-of-the-Tusk)

So, only about year......

2278
Literature / Re: What you want to read this year - Totals and specifics
« on: April 27, 2015, 08:42:58 pm »
Right now I'm in the middle of two series going back and forth between Gentleman's Bastards and The Book of the New Sun. Then will probably give Rothfuss a go and towards end of the year do another reread of TSA.

2279
General Earwa / Re: Your favorite character?
« on: April 24, 2015, 05:06:52 pm »
Breaker of Horses and Men! The Most violent of all Men! Yatwers Baby Daddy! Conphas's spurned lover. His proof is Serwe. Yes, him, Cnaüir urs Skiötha.

Then Akka. Everyone seems to have a general dislike for him, I guess they say he broods too much. I didn't see that, and in TDTCB, he was the sole reason I kept reading.

2280
Literature / Re: Steven Erikson (The 3.5 million word journey?)
« on: March 10, 2015, 10:09:09 am »
I 2nd Toll the Hounds ending is worth it! That is the ultimate convergence!

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