[TUC Spoilers] The Seven Revelations of SuJuroit (Kellhus and Ajokli)

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Woden

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« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2017, 10:41:31 am »
Pretty lame scouts they were.
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« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2017, 12:03:40 pm »
Pretty lame scouts they were.

I think everyone was pretty lame after a whole march across the world, losing 1/3 of their ranks, and surviving by eating the remains of the rest, only to stare at an impregnable fortress that is the very heart of life's undoing.  Not looking behind you with the utmost scrutiny is probably somewhat excusable, even if it is still rather dumb.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

SuJuroit

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« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2017, 02:18:58 pm »
What good is preventing resumption if the world becomes Hell?

I think this question goes to the root of what RBS was trying to achieve.  Golgotterath is a crash space, where meaning and morality collapse.  So is it better for mankind to suffer horribly in the Inward and go extinct under Resumption?  To live normal lives in the Inward, but suffer an eternity of torment in the Pit?  To experience Hell on earth under a manifested Ajokli (that one seems like an easy call, but what becomes of the metaphysics of souls under a God manifested in the Inward?)?  I think we're meant to grapple with these questions ourselves, although it seems clear that if Kellhus chose the second option presented above, he deviated from what the rest of the Dunyain did or would have done.  We can only guess at why; he went crazy, Ajokli tricked him into it, his love of Esmenet made him do it, etc. 

Duskweaver

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« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2017, 06:38:36 pm »
Hell on earth under a manifested Ajokli (that one seems like an easy call, but what becomes of the metaphysics of souls under a God manifested in the Inward?)?
For all we know, maybe if Ajokli rules the World and brings his Hells with him, that might leave the Outside full of only Heavens?
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

The Sharmat

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« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2017, 09:06:52 pm »
I don't think Ajokli has the only hell. Yatwer at least seems to like to torment.

EdwardReynolds

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« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2017, 06:21:50 am »
There were scouts, the Scylvendi took them out.

Uh huh, so a veteran army at the end of their objective all of a sudden doesnt mind that all the scouts are being killed in one sector? Or that all the scouts are being killed? Some of the scouts have to be schoolmen since they can basically fly.

You really think no-ones going to not kick a stink if mages start getting salted? If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.

I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.

Duskweaver

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« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2017, 12:26:01 pm »
I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.
The Ordeal posted sentinels in the ruins of the Akeokinoi. Naked Scylvendi painted with camouflage snuck up on them and killed them all. The rest of the Ordeal were already fully occupied at Golgotterath by this point, so even if any of the sentinels had lived long enough to send some sort of message, it would not have helped.

Quote
If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.
There seems to be a limit on how high above the Ground a sorcerer can conjure an echo to walk upon. Even Serwa couldn't get high enough to take out the wielder of the Spear of Sil. Kellhus could get right up to the top of the Upright Horn, but he might have been using Ajoklian thaumaturgy rather than sorcery.
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

Walter

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« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2017, 12:47:39 pm »
I think Kellhus gets up above Aurang by warping, not by walking on echoes.

Duskweaver

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« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2017, 03:34:41 pm »
I think Kellhus gets up above Aurang by warping, not by walking on echoes.
Yeah, I just re-read it. He teleports onto an echo of the Spear-wielder's balcony, then later on repeately teleports up and freefalls, then teleports back up again.
"Then I looked, and behold, a Whirlwind came out of the North..." - Ezekiel 1:4

"Two things that brand one a coward: using violence when it is not necessary; and shrinking from it when it is."

The Sharmat

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« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2017, 11:28:23 pm »
Quote
If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.
There seems to be a limit on how high above the Ground a sorcerer can conjure an echo to walk upon. Even Serwa couldn't get high enough to take out the wielder of the Spear of Sil. Kellhus could get right up to the top of the Upright Horn, but he might have been using Ajoklian thaumaturgy rather than sorcery.
Kellhus seemed to actually be flying, yeah. That and teleporting. Serwa can't get up to the height of the spearbearer because the Horn has an echo too. She raises the relative frame of the ground, she raises the relative frame of the Ark.

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« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2017, 12:00:14 pm »
I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.
The Ordeal posted sentinels in the ruins of the Akeokinoi. Naked Scylvendi painted with camouflage snuck up on them and killed them all. The rest of the Ordeal were already fully occupied at Golgotterath by this point, so even if any of the sentinels had lived long enough to send some sort of message, it would not have helped.

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Woden

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« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2017, 01:14:20 pm »
But did Kellhus know that Cnaiur was coming or not?
If so it seems that he didn't care at all.
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EdwardReynolds

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« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2017, 02:22:01 am »
I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.
The Ordeal posted sentinels in the ruins of the Akeokinoi. Naked Scylvendi painted with camouflage snuck up on them and killed them all. The rest of the Ordeal were already fully occupied at Golgotterath by this point, so even if any of the sentinels had lived long enough to send some sort of message, it would not have helped.

Quote
If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.
There seems to be a limit on how high above the Ground a sorcerer can conjure an echo to walk upon. Even Serwa couldn't get high enough to take out the wielder of the Spear of Sil. Kellhus could get right up to the top of the Upright Horn, but he might have been using Ajoklian thaumaturgy rather than sorcery.

Huh. Right, some how I had no idea. I knew the Schoolmen were walking on an echo of the ground not 'flying' but never noticed anything about there being X distance as being the maximum delta between the surface and foot. Its always seemed they are low enough to get hit by missiles so they were close enough for their offensive spells i.e. it makes sense that dragon heads only puke fire out to a certain range...id just never noticed anything that indicated the ground echo having such a low limit.

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2017, 03:53:15 am »
I think Kellhus gets up above Aurang by warping, not by walking on echoes.
Yeah, I just re-read it. He teleports onto an echo of the Spear-wielder's balcony, then later on repeately teleports up and freefalls, then teleports back up again.
Yeah that's also how I read it. He's able to effectively fly by having such a fast teleport cooldown and nearly unlimited mana.

Bagletown

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« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2017, 04:14:36 am »
But did Kellhus know that Cnaiur was coming or not?
If so it seems that he didn't care at all.

Possibly he did but just as the Empire was a ladder for the Ordeal, the Ordeal was a ladder to get him into the Golden Room to destroy the Consult Brain trust (with Serwa and Kayutas maybe). So as he was willing to let the empire burn, maybe he was willing to let the Scylvendi destroy what remained of the Ordeal so long as it happened after his confrontation with the Dunsult.