5626
General Earwa / Re: Trying to solve the Whodunit? (As in who is Damned?)
« on: August 28, 2013, 01:13:35 am »
Sorry but... Gin'y?
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5627
General Earwa / Re: Trying to solve the Whodunit? (As in who is Damned?)
« on: August 27, 2013, 10:54:46 pm »
I mean, I honestly think Bakker himself could come in here right now under a different name and just lay out the basics of the series, piece by piece, and a lot of people would still take issue with it. Until that shit's in text, in a book, and the series is done, everything's up for grabs. [/i]
I particularly love this quote right here, and fully agree with it. I absolutist believe that Bakker under alias, singing revelation and truth, would be condemned by the community at large. Also, when pressed to defend this or that point, I'm sure more than a few people could poke holes in any theory brought forth. Like you mentioned, until its written in the book, its all ambiguous.
5628
General Earwa / Re: My spoil it all prediction for what the overall setting is
« on: August 27, 2013, 09:25:29 pm »
That is a good point. Even if there were only a few Nonman defending a fortress, many, many men would die trying to climb over those walls.
5629
General Earwa / Re: Requests for Tree Imagery from the Earwa novels.
« on: August 27, 2013, 08:55:07 pm »
I'll be editing this post several times so I don't have a bunch in a row.
Spoiler tags for space, except when noted otherwise.
EDIT
EDIT 2:
EDIT 3:
EDIT 4:
EDIT 6:
In PoN, searching for the word "tree" gives about 250 results. Maybe 25% of those are from the word "street", and most of the rest are uninteresting like "they ran through the trees" or "the tree exploded". I posted most of the ones that seemed more descriptive that I could find. I still need to look through the second half of TTT.
Spoiler tags for space, except when noted otherwise.
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In PoN, searching for the word "tree" gives about 250 results. Maybe 25% of those are from the word "street", and most of the rest are uninteresting like "they ran through the trees" or "the tree exploded". I posted most of the ones that seemed more descriptive that I could find. I still need to look through the second half of TTT.
5630
General Earwa / Re: My spoil it all prediction for what the overall setting is
« on: August 27, 2013, 07:20:04 pm »
Thanks for that explanation Somnambulist. First of all, I just learned that your name is actually something because google didnt underline it in red. Cool 
But seriously, the first bit of what you said is a way better explanation of something I might have been trying to say. I should probably just delete my post.
One tiny little thing that i might question though. Why would the 5 tribes represent dominant groups (its possible I am misinterpreting what you meant)? The 5 separate tribes could have just been small subsets of their dominant ethical groups. Or, they could all be minor players in whatever world scheme was happening, and they all were looking for a way out. A common enemy and all that.
Or this scenario (might help answer your question about "Yeah, lets do that"):
Say, each of the 5 groups all consisted of extremest (within their own populations) who had a a tiny overlapping of belief. Like if an Inchoroi flew over the mountains, introduced some wacky religion to each of the separate tribes, and the ones that became followers of this new 'religion' eventually found themselves all wanting the same thing (in this case, to pass through the mountains). After they crossed the mountain the groups were too dissimilar to stay as a cohesive unit, and splintered back into their old tribal ways.
I think that sounds semi reasonable
I certainly agree that there needs to be some kind of mutual prohibition of cultural interaction in order to keep them separate for a long time, but this doesn't seem too difficult to imagine. Presumably, before the breaking of the gates, the tribes had little interaction and probably warred with each other. After the tribes went their own ways, there was a log of distance and geographical barriers that prevented interaction, not to mention old feuds and decades of bloody history.
But seriously, the first bit of what you said is a way better explanation of something I might have been trying to say. I should probably just delete my post.
One tiny little thing that i might question though. Why would the 5 tribes represent dominant groups (its possible I am misinterpreting what you meant)? The 5 separate tribes could have just been small subsets of their dominant ethical groups. Or, they could all be minor players in whatever world scheme was happening, and they all were looking for a way out. A common enemy and all that.
Or this scenario (might help answer your question about "Yeah, lets do that"):
Say, each of the 5 groups all consisted of extremest (within their own populations) who had a a tiny overlapping of belief. Like if an Inchoroi flew over the mountains, introduced some wacky religion to each of the separate tribes, and the ones that became followers of this new 'religion' eventually found themselves all wanting the same thing (in this case, to pass through the mountains). After they crossed the mountain the groups were too dissimilar to stay as a cohesive unit, and splintered back into their old tribal ways.
I think that sounds semi reasonable
I certainly agree that there needs to be some kind of mutual prohibition of cultural interaction in order to keep them separate for a long time, but this doesn't seem too difficult to imagine. Presumably, before the breaking of the gates, the tribes had little interaction and probably warred with each other. After the tribes went their own ways, there was a log of distance and geographical barriers that prevented interaction, not to mention old feuds and decades of bloody history.
5631
General Earwa / Re: My spoil it all prediction for what the overall setting is
« on: August 27, 2013, 05:51:57 pm »
Well earwa might be big, but its not that big. If you have essentially 5 races move into an area and then separate, then I don't get why its surprising that there are not 100 different ones at this point.
Its also a matter of POV. As an example, someone from Europe that has never been to America may believe that Everyone there is essentially the same. That could be correct, or false, depending on were you sit. If, for example, you compare the societal difference of those inside america to those in a similarly large geographic space, like Europe, then you could say that yes, most of America is the same. The diversity in USA is way different the the diversity in the EU. However, I bet that if you told someone from south Texas that they were culturally similar to people in Maine, they'd disagree with you.
Also, if a group of people with Arabic features, who also help similar scio/ecomoic and religious beliefs, went off somewhere and established their own colony, I'd imagine they would end up with similar beliefs 100 years down the road. So it is entierly possible that a group of people with similar physical features would have similar beliefs.
We only get flawed perspectives, so actual diversity may simply be obscured.
Hope that fit somewhere into this discussion I can't saw I was reading too closely.
Its also a matter of POV. As an example, someone from Europe that has never been to America may believe that Everyone there is essentially the same. That could be correct, or false, depending on were you sit. If, for example, you compare the societal difference of those inside america to those in a similarly large geographic space, like Europe, then you could say that yes, most of America is the same. The diversity in USA is way different the the diversity in the EU. However, I bet that if you told someone from south Texas that they were culturally similar to people in Maine, they'd disagree with you.
Also, if a group of people with Arabic features, who also help similar scio/ecomoic and religious beliefs, went off somewhere and established their own colony, I'd imagine they would end up with similar beliefs 100 years down the road. So it is entierly possible that a group of people with similar physical features would have similar beliefs.
We only get flawed perspectives, so actual diversity may simply be obscured.
Hope that fit somewhere into this discussion
I can't saw I was reading too closely.
5632
General Earwa / Re: Requests for Tree Imagery from the Earwa novels.
« on: August 27, 2013, 03:08:25 pm »
Can't think of any literal quotes right now but if people have books on them:
Twig description from near the beginning of TDTCB
Beginning of Inrau's death scene (tied to the description of a goddess) TDTCB
Probably several tree descriptions about the big tree Kellhus is crucified on TWP (3/4 of the way through, maybe sooner)
Bronze tree symbol of the Mansion (where Kell finds Moe) TTT
Also probably description of the actual tree that Mansion is Under (these are near the end of TTT)
Lots of Trees in WLW near the beginning
There should be plenty more but this should give someone a starting point, and hopefully it provides will start the mind on the right track.
EDIT
I could have sworn that the whole Inrau Death scene was quoted somewhere, which includes the description that i mentioned above, but I cant find it. irritating.
Twig description from near the beginning of TDTCB
Beginning of Inrau's death scene (tied to the description of a goddess) TDTCB
Probably several tree descriptions about the big tree Kellhus is crucified on TWP (3/4 of the way through, maybe sooner)
Bronze tree symbol of the Mansion (where Kell finds Moe) TTT
Also probably description of the actual tree that Mansion is Under (these are near the end of TTT)
Lots of Trees in WLW near the beginning
There should be plenty more but this should give someone a starting point, and hopefully it provides will start the mind on the right track.
EDIT
I could have sworn that the whole Inrau Death scene was quoted somewhere, which includes the description that i mentioned above, but I cant find it. irritating.
5633
The Great Ordeal / Re: Excerpt - The Unholy Consult, Chapter Three (Summary)
« on: August 26, 2013, 08:15:37 pm »
You could always catalog them somewhere over here if you wanted
5634
General Earwa / Re: Who'll live through TUC?
« on: August 26, 2013, 06:28:46 pm »Currently, I don't know what to believe anymore,
This is exactly why I'm here. I abandoned "knowing" anything and now just jump from idea to idea. TSA is as complex as you want to make it, and it might be that once its over there is little mystery to be had, but for now, I'll keep coming back for the crackpot theories of insane speculations.
5635
General Misc. / Re: Disseminating Bakker
« on: August 26, 2013, 04:29:16 pm »
I saw a "little library" outside someone's house yesterday . It was a cedar box with glass face that had room for maybe 5-10 books. It had a note inside that said to take a book and leave on in its place. I should go back and slide TDTCB in there and see what happens...
Apparently its an official thing: http://www.littlefreelibrary.org/
A small 'hope restored in humanity' moment.
Apparently its an official thing: http://www.littlefreelibrary.org/
A small 'hope restored in humanity' moment.
5636
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: What is the No God?
« on: August 26, 2013, 04:23:58 pm »Mimara feels something that appears to be the God when she looks into the chorae with her Judging Eye.I'd say "a" God, rather than "the" God. Maybe not all of the 100 are hellish soul-eating torturers. Though we haven't heard about any of those...
The Aporos was actually banned before they made Chorae. Was it simply because they broke the power of sorcery? Or because the Aporetic sorcerers discovered something about reality that upset the assumed natural order the Nonmen took for granted?Certainly wouldn't be the first time some select few Nonmen had some kind of revelation and then the info was suppressed or destroyed. The Nonman are really bad at dealing with change. Or maybe they just forgot the joy of finding out they weren't damned.
I want to say the Aporetics found the divinity Mimara seems to have experienced by looking into the chorae, but it's hard for me to believe anyone touched by Heaven would side with the Inchoroi.If Mimara is some kind of Jesus figure that opens up heaven to the masses, then anyone before her that saw into this other world might have only seen endless purgatory or hell... like the inverse fire. Maybe there was only pain and suffering until a savior is sacrificed.
I liked your thoughts about the no-god. I'm not sure I know if you are right or not, but there is a lot of stuff in there that makes sense.
5637
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: The Endless setting echoes the Bakkerverse
« on: August 26, 2013, 03:16:43 pm »
Ah ok that makes sense. Sorry to many "endless" words in one sentence
5638
General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: August 26, 2013, 03:06:52 pm »
Yeah he said as much to me. The first few books of Dune Bakker got an idea or two from, though apparently none from the later books.
I'd say Chapterhouse is THE endpoint. It could certainly have used book 8, but it doesn't exist. There is a lot of closure and it could have ended nicely there, except Frank Herbert clearly had plans for another one and there are a few elements that don't get fully explained... and the epilogue is like chapter 1 of the next book. Its kind of frustrating, but I would rather leave it as it was written than try to read what amounts to (in my mind) a fan's version of how it might have ended.
I'd say Chapterhouse is THE endpoint. It could certainly have used book 8, but it doesn't exist. There is a lot of closure and it could have ended nicely there, except Frank Herbert clearly had plans for another one and there are a few elements that don't get fully explained... and the epilogue is like chapter 1 of the next book. Its kind of frustrating, but I would rather leave it as it was written than try to read what amounts to (in my mind) a fan's version of how it might have ended.
5639
General Earwa / Re: Who'll live through TUC?
« on: August 26, 2013, 02:58:38 pm »
I think its possible that there might be some kind of multi-WLW thing going on, and the text/POV of ignorant characters is pointing us down the path of one WLW.
lol I figure we'll just conceive of every possible twist, so then when something happens unexpected we can all say "yeah saw that coming".
lol I figure we'll just conceive of every possible twist, so then when something happens unexpected we can all say "yeah saw that coming".
5640
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: The Endless setting echoes the Bakkerverse
« on: August 26, 2013, 02:54:47 pm »
Just to be sure, this isn't about the 4X game Endless Space right?
I might check this out later when I'm not at work.
I might check this out later when I'm not at work.
