The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => General Misc. => Topic started by: What Came Before on May 14, 2013, 08:36:23 pm
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I'm interested in how you all disseminate and disperse Bakker? Friends? Family? Acquaintances?
And I thought, anecdotally, that you would all find this jokes ;):
There's this "Freedom of Speech" board on campus. And once a week I make a point to write something pithy and challenging, which rings especially well with the dissonance I cause being the person standing there, writing what I'm writing...
By the way, "Freedom" wasn't free. At the beginning of the semester, there was no chalk or chalk brush and I purchased them anonymously.... "Freedom" was 4.95 + tax...
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1651/63c782b075035c7d52c579d.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/63c782b075035c7d52c579d.jpg/)
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Friends mostly. My circles don't tend to lead to people that read much, and Bakker isn't one of those pick up and read just because books. I like to know that the person would stand a chance reading it before I suggest.
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I gave Neuropath to a neuroscience caltech grad who notoriously hates most fiction. He loved it, but complained there was too much plot getting in the way of the interesting things Neil said.
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Free speach is as free as free will.
Anyway, occasionally when reading forums something reminds me of a quote from the books, so I quote and maybe give a link.
I'd suggest the books to people at a game club I go to, but then I'd have to read their fantasy books in return, I think! And I kinda don't want to? And I kinda think it might be like with friends in the past who were wild about wheel of time and such and got that intense look in their eye and they could see that in each others eyes (though couldn't speak it), but I just kinda...liked it. I couldn't share that intense look in the eye? So I wonder if I'd be a let down for others when reading their fave fantasy? Or maybe by then I've already gotten them to read Bakker and it's too late for them, bait and switch mofo's! Bwa ha hahahaha ha!haha1hah...
I gave Neuropath to a neuroscience caltech grad who notoriously hates most fiction. He loved it, but complained there was too much plot getting in the way of the interesting things Neil said.
Heh, that's great! Really, to your grad, what Neil says essentially IS the plot. He's just not interested in the sort of 'run around worried by kids' plot.
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I found, on the interwebz, a .txt file of the complete WLW. Dunno how I feel about that.
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I spend my fridays handing out copies of TDTCB outside the downtown metro station
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my okcupid profile pic is just me sans pants with my copy of tdtcb covering my unmentionables. on a completely unrelated note, why can't i get a girlfriend
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my okcupid profile pic is just me sans pants with my copy of tdtcb covering my unmentionables. on a completely unrelated note, why can't i get a girlfriend
Try a larger book.
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+1 all. Lol @ bbaztek and Ajokli. There are largeprint of PON and AE, bbaztek ;).
Yeah, Wilshire, Bakker isn't joking when he says he suffers from pirating. He once mentioned that he used to look up how many different torrents and sites were offering his books for free and he just stopped when he found a torrent of PON that had some 40,000 downloads...
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Yeah he mentioned that to me as well. I feel bad for him, though I can't say I ever feel remorse when I download the big-box stuff so I guess that makes me a hypocrite.
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I will typically suggest Bakker to any friends that read SFF. If they can put up with my vulgarity, they can read Bakker... Right? Out of 5 people I convinced to read TDTCB, only 1 is current in the series and 3 stopped after the first book.
Interesting side note - The 1 friend that is current in the series is the only other RPG player out of the 6 (me included this time), and also is the only other reader out of the group the enjoys Dan Simmons' work.
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I'm at about 1 out of 4. Maybe 1.5 if you count the guy that "is reading" TWP (its been a year at this point i think).
My side note, 2 girls, 2 guys. Both girls didn't finish TDTCB.
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Still skeptical about pirating until some kind of test is made where someone who pirates is either forced to buy the product or go without. I suspect the majority of them will simply go without. Meaning there is no lost sale. They wouldn't buy it to begin with. (but if the majority would then buy it, okay, then I'd concede the point on the matter).
my okcupid profile pic is just me sans pants with my copy of tdtcb covering my unmentionables. on a completely unrelated note, why can't i get a girlfriend
Try a larger book.
Bbaztek needs a pendulous fantasy...
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I think I've stated this somewhere here before but I try to pimp Bakker every chance I get. Friends, family, colleagues, lately if someone says they like Martin, I try to sell them Bakker... I even try to publicize him in MMO's if there is any lit talk. His is the only series that I lend out to people (because I've got 3 copies of each PoN book). That said, I can only say for sure that I've added one or two fans to his list. He is a very hard sale. I understand why though, because it took me several rereads of TDTCB before I really hit my stride with him. His writing is dense and layered; it is much like when I was new to fantasy and reading Terry Brooks for the first time and someone offered me Gene Wolfe, I tried it out and found myself feeling a fool. I could grasp simple parts of the story but found myself missing so much that I was used to. Simple structure, foreshadowing that I could grasp, names that I could pronounce (in my head even lol)... And much of Bakker's work is designed to make you realize that you are a fool. It is a hard pill to swallow.
I do, however, think Bakker will someday get the attention he deserves. Game of Thrones seems to be making people take a second look at the fantasy genre and, like me, find much of it lacking in depth. Given that Bakker is one of the most talked about authors in the Lit section of Westeros and that he is finally giving in to self-promotion once again (his new website and this forum will be where the magic happens) I think his popularity will be steadily increasing over the coming years.
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I agree that it will likely steadily increase, but lets just hope its at a rate fast enough to keep him writing full time. Children get expensive fast I'd imagine.
I doubt he will ever break out of the midlist author range where he is at now, or at least not with TSA stuff. If only more people would read Disciple of the Dog... that is a book that could really take off. Its entertaining and a quick read but still with the flavor of Bakker. If anyone here hasn't read this book, get too it. It is much easier to convince people to read a 300ish page book than huge series.
Besides it only took him 3 months to write that so he could probably publish a Disciple Manning book every year to keep the cash flowing, whilst continuing to write his more epic novels.
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Random thought, anyone buy used books? From an authors standpoint, is that any better than pirating?
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I do, however, think Bakker will someday get the attention he deserves. Game of Thrones seems to be making people take a second look at the fantasy genre and, like me, find much of it lacking in depth. Given that Bakker is one of the most talked about authors in the Lit section of Westeros and that he is finally giving in to self-promotion once again (his new website and this forum will be where the magic happens) I think his popularity will be steadily increasing over the coming years.
I truly believe Bakker will be more remembered of all the current crop in the long-run
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I used to be crazy about ASOIAF but now I can't muster a single shit to give about the series. Yes, even the show. Its hardcore fans love spouting how deep and complex the books are but what anyone has to remember is that no matter how hyperbolic the praise for ASOIAF, you gotta add the little "... for a fantasy series" qualifier in your head yourself.
let's face it, asoiaf isn't especially thought-provoking, challenging, or morally complex. it succeeds in turning the reader's expectations on its head, but it's not like there's anything especially philosophically rich or literary trying to be said in the process. I'm not the type of guy who thinks even what you're reading on the shitter has to be capital-A art, but I do think the weirder ASOIAF fans were so starved for something truly challenging and enriching to read that as soon as a series like ASOIAF came along they can't talk about it now without making their O-face. compare the Game of Thrones tv show to something like, say, Breaking Bad or Mad Men. sure, BB and MM are light years apart from a fantasy show in subject matter but the way some of these assholes talk about GoT you'd think it was being directed by James fucking Joyce.
I guess my point is that while Bakker's books definitely have their weird quirks and faults, if it's a sign that the average fantasy novel is gonna start growing up then godspeed.
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I have similar feelings about ASOIAF, bbaztek.
It's this generation's Wheel of Time. Gateway back into fantasy but for something a little meatier one must go somewhere else.
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I make sure I always have a couple used copies of each book to hand out to people interested, Wilshire. I've suggested it to people more than I can remember and far less than 1 in 4 have taken a copy of TDTCB or Disciple.
I've gotten... a couple people to read Neuropath but I always accompany it with a proviso not to include me in their suicide note - one of them happens to be one of the coolest girls I've ever known.
lockesnow, I want to get a plaque made that says Never Be Neil.
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I'd guess that, to answer my own question, pirating a copy for free and buying the book used amounts to the same thing for the author. If you are doing either, you probably cant afford the full price regardless, so either you dont read it at all or you get a cheap/free copy and do read. To the author they see no revenue either way, better a bit of free publicity than none (maybe.)
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I don't believe that authors receive any monetary compensation from used books. I buy them strictly to disseminate - maybe those people continue to purchase the series themselves.
I have bought more than my share of Bakker's titles full price over the years. I always have a full untouched set.
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I have bought more than my share of Bakker's titles full price over the years. I always have a full untouched set.
Same here. Full hard cover set for the bookshelf, and a couple soft-backs that I use as loaners or for rereads.
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Random thought, anyone buy used books? From an authors standpoint, is that any better than pirating?
I bought 1st ed HCs in fine/nearfine of all three of the PON trilogy for about $1-2 each, plus shipping. I originally read them by borrowing from the library.
That's why I'm buying them again on the kindle, cause he should be paid for my enjoyment.
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You could just e-karma direct, lockesnow, if buying the kindle versions are incidental to supporting Bakker.
+1, Garet.
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http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/10/excerpt-from-r-scott-bakkers-unholy.html
Is this true? Has Bakker returned to teaching part time?
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You could just e-karma direct, lockesnow, if buying the kindle versions are incidental to supporting Bakker.
+1, Garet.
nah, I want them digitally, highlighting function, ability to copy and paste, can check copies on my phone or laptop or kindle. plus, many orders of magnitude lighter to hold when reading in bed than the dead tree version.
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haha you used the lighter argument. Thats always been my favorite pro-ebook argument.
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haha you used the lighter argument. Thats always been my favorite pro-ebook argument.
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I had some thoughts over the past couple days and I wanted to share them with those interested.
coobek & Wilshire have inspired me. And I'd like to invite you all to participate in an experiment in social dissemination.
Who are the Dunyain? - The Meme:
I'm something of an academic - it is a, yet unattributed, trait I've inherited at some point in my life, if not innate. I marvel at human interaction above all else, if only because I came from a troubled home, and communication underscores every aspect of that interaction, all extremes.
I think it's important to try for blindingly obvious in these sorts of proposals - considering the basic elements and variables often jogs the imagination in interesting ways.
I have three goals in advocating this project:
Who's involved?
When I first started Second Apocalypse, it was with the open intention to leverage as many social fulcrums as I can to disseminate Bakker. I hit up Wertzone and Fantasy Hotlist with both the advent of the board and the excerpt - Pat announced the Second Apocalypse and they both plugged the excerpt. Bakker plugged both of his own accord.
I'm always interested in the numbers, or nodes, involved and it would be interesting to have some feedback on that.
Neurons & Octopi
Where does our network extend to? I've never attempted a viral campaign before but I've a lifetime of experience with local band promoters & studying social networks. I'm sure there is an untapped wealth of thought here on Second Apocalypse.
Self-reflection becomes important because interaction in perusing the mystery lead people back to these very words. Likewise, this is suggested as an experiment to yield information - I'm curious as to where our growing noosphere extends to and to cultivate tools for better disseminating information in general.
I used tentacles of the Octopus as an example of visual imagery - for someone who stares at brain scans as frequently as I do, another could be the staining of neurons and the nervous system in general. We are the nervous system of this community and a decent sample of Bakker fandom.
Disseminate Bakker
Ultimately, this is a no-lose campaign for anyone who'd like to help me get this off the ground. While we can approach this professionally, we spend no real money and our profit is generated interest, not to mention again, data.
If even one new person picked up a Bakker book, I'd be ecstatic.
Core Focus
Since some inherent consistent is important there a four things I would suggest to take as core focus:
Homogeny, or If You Can Disseminate, Disseminate
Any medium we use has to reflect homogeny. Our resources like graphics, stencils, or fonts, should be easily disseminated with the network and be identifiable as representing the same message. Also, if we use social media, it should reflect the medium - Hashtags on Twitter, not on Facebook.
Also, if possible, there would be temporal homogeny, as one of the chief abilties of an internet network is to simultaneous manifest messages in the real world, irregardless of geographic borders.
Augmented Reality
Avoiding this factor is a no-start - augmented reality as a phenomenon, if not a term, is already ubiquitous. The aspect of most crucial importance to me is the reality half. The idea is to maximize real world stimuli, which peak interest, but ultimately engagement. The social media aspect for me is incidental - that's just how people are choosing to communicate now - we have to leverage that communicative aspect by getting people communicating.
This was actually kind of the idea that coobek gave me by suggesting that people probably would google "Who are the Dunyain?"
Crossing the boundary from the internet to the real world as much as possible is key. Everyone is not on the internet. Everyone is in the real world. The more we can manifest an artifact in reality gives it a chance to interact with more people.
The Medium Is The Message
"In order to move, an idea has to be encapsulated in a medium. It could be a picture, a phrase, a written article, a movie, even a mathematical formula (e=mc2) … and the medium is the substance that the idea lives in" (Unleashing the Ideavirus, p13).
Again I'm looking to learn here. I'm interested in how dissemination works at all. How to maximize replication & imitation?
Engage & Interact
When I imagine this aspect, it seems self-evident. The more interested people are in something, the more they engage it. The more they interact the more they remember.
The Meme
"Who are the Dunyain?"
This seems synchronicity but there is no better time for Bakker fans to be asking "Who are the Dunyain?" They remain central to our speculative hearts and seeing as how they remain one of the great mysteries and motifs of the Second Apocalypse, they make a fitting focus.
Ideally, in any given communicative network of theoretic nature, you could disseminate a message worldwide onto a wall in every public space in a day. What are things we can do to aspire even minimally to that philosophy as a community?
Tools & Resources
As I'm just brain storming, I'll shotgun approach some ideas.
- Social Media
- Chalk Art & Stencils
- Stickers and Telephone Pole Flyers
- Community Bulletin
Cheers anyone who read. I'm going to read-through and post.
Even if nothing comes of this it was informative to brainstorm the thoughts. Also, I'm sure the conversation will be stellar as always :D.
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Seems like a good idea to me.
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Summon 4channers?
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I think there's a bbcode for summoning?
I'm definitely not using the word meme as its been popularized in culture. Though the Internet Meme is a meme. But it is a medium and I'd never want to constrain those ideas so of course we could make one.
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I think its funny that most people don't know what a meme actually is. They think it an invention of the internet in the past couple of years.
But yeah, I almost said summon 4chan above but didnt, and making some internet memes would be comical, though i hazard no one would take notice.
So what if you do google the phrase "who are the dunyain?"
first link is sffworld.com
second link is here, pointed to the "Saccarees & the Dunyain" thread.
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This was an obviously omitted thought.
I thought about making a self-referential thread topic - I mean, we're literally not tacking down the more important part of the process, which is directing their search of the mystery - but... meh?
Lol, any tangible idea we have about the dissemination of the Second Apocalypse network is awesome to me. How cool would it be to know we could put word out, worldwide as far as we extend at a moments notice? It's already happening, incidentally - people interact with the forum and then go off and have X number of interactions, directly relating to the initial interactions - I'm just talking about articulating the process.
+1 for Thoughts, always.
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Neurons & Octopi
Where does our network extend to? I've never attempted a viral campaign before but I've a lifetime of experience with local band promoters & studying social networks. I'm sure there is an untapped wealth of thought here on Second Apocalypse.
Self-reflection becomes important because interaction in perusing the mystery lead people back to these very words. Likewise, this is suggested as an experiment to yield information - I'm curious as to where our growing noosphere extends to and to cultivate tools for better disseminating information in general.
I used tentacles of the Octopus as an example of visual imagery - for someone who stares at brain scans as frequently as I do, another could be the staining of neurons and the nervous system in general. We are the nervous system of this community and a decent sample of Bakker fandom.
Octopus is a bad analogy/metaphor. Hubs don't really facilitate a strong network effect, hubs facilitate a weak network effect.
A web, on the other hand, has multiple nodes and very strong network effects, much more so than a hub oriented network.
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This is true. I just wondered at the unavoidable side of effect of the forum - this place probably receives the most traffic from fans actually waiting to buy and read his next books?
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This is true. I just wondered at the unavoidable side of effect of the forum - this place probably receives the most traffic from fans actually waiting to buy and read his next books?
Promote buying ebook editions of the books for re-read computer based text search purposes? Amazon etc links in the various fora?
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Hm. I just had this conversation today with a friend of mine who does this for a living.
As we know, the point of a viral campaign isn't actually to get sales specifically, though, obviously that is an intended by-product. Its simply to generate interest and, possibly, replicate a message - in this case, "Who are the Dunyain?" is self-reflective because it gets people asking the question but ultimately if we could attach http://www.rscottbakker.com to anything would be best.
A couple highlights from that conversation - though, not exactly my best time for remembering or writing, long day.
She said the most successful campaigns she's run are one's that involve human interaction. She talked about having a Flash Choir to raise awareness for a newly opened civic center - Darth Vader walked into wherever they were and began conducting the singers in the Star Wars Anthem. Camera's are ubiquitous so the event made it onto youtube from a bunch of different angles and in all the video comments my friend's company made comments explaining the story.
Also, my friend had said that you explain these things to the press before hand - so that really only people in a community are kept dark.
Obviously, these are full-PR campaigns she's talking about. Just interesting stuff. I'm always a fan of disseminating information but have never really engaged it as a thought until now.
Another thing - she's said there has never been a notable advertising or viral campaign for books ever - excluding movies. Book advertising isn't talked about in industry apparently - this is a girl who both went to school for this stuff and has run and been a part of several major ad campaigns in Ottawa.
Also, that there's never been any type of Flash event done in a Chapter's.
Lastly, from my sleep & study addled brain, she mentioned that her immediate thought would be to have people do like a Flash Larp of a scene from the books - recognition isn't an issue.
Always just thoughts.
EDIT: She +1'd the ultimate goal is "Disseminate a message simultaneously to as many major centers worldwide." Obviously, sounding our network is the first step to on the ladder.
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I nominate NOT doing a flash LARP of the 'who are the Dunyain' scene.
Unless you like jail.
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Lmao. Wow. Though, anyone doing a roleplay of the Who are the Dunyain scene would probably enjoy jail ;).
Nah, if it ever came to that I've suggest one of the battle scenes - like Cnaiur and Sarcellus or something (though I have a friend who's only really into Disciple suggest that he'd dress up as a Detective and like stand-in Chapter's reading a chapter).
Lol, whatever happens, we're laying some ground work in my mind.
I'd be ecstatic if we did like homogenous chalk stencils or stickers or something, in as many different countries worldwide again, in major city centers - "Who are the Dunyain?"
Anyhow, just brainstorms.
+1 for No Jail - though, my friend said if you tell the press before hand, there is very little risk of any kind of reprimand. Apparently, a couple years ago a company used an eighteen wheeler to block five lanes of LA traffic for a twenty minute show and though the City made a big deal of being upset, no one was even fined. All over American papers the next day.
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Pulp-o-mizer[/b] (http://thrilling-tales.webomator.com/derange-o-lab/pulp-o-mizer/pulp-o-mizer.html)
Jokes ;). Clearly stole the generated one.
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I agree that it will likely steadily increase, but lets just hope its at a rate fast enough to keep him writing full time. Children get expensive fast I'd imagine.
I doubt he will ever break out of the midlist author range where he is at now, or at least not with TSA stuff. If only more people would read Disciple of the Dog... that is a book that could really take off. Its entertaining and a quick read but still with the flavor of Bakker. If anyone here hasn't read this book, get too it. It is much easier to convince people to read a 300ish page book than huge series.
Besides it only took him 3 months to write that so he could probably publish a Disciple Manning book every year to keep the cash flowing, whilst continuing to write his more epic novels.
I agree, it's less of a steep difficulty curve (emotionally!) with the Manning novels. Better entry point. I suspect that the detective novel area is rather stagnant - the audience has pretty much chosen their fave authors, not alot of cross over. Maybe we could bully Scott into doing a kick starter or something for a latter Manning novel, if the traditional publishing methods fail? >:)
Lets face it, the whole book selling biz isn't a board game where there is a solution on how to win - it's largely a fuzzy wilderness. It's just that some haven't mastered the wilderness, but know how to put it in between their cosy position and an up and comers path.
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Getting a logline for the series would be good as well. A log line is a one to three sentence description/encapsulation of the series (single clause sentences, btw), and is one of the more effective ways of creating audience buy in, if your logline isn't offputting.
you could have different log lines for different audiences. For example, I 'sold' a few people in line for ADWD signing on Bakker by describing it as 'an epic fantasy with heroines who are prostitutes not princesses' they loved that approach, but on the majority of audiences, that would not be a good sell. In that example, you have an audience who already has a big 'buy-in' within the genre and you create interest by emphasizing a unique/different/'new' quality to get them to sample.
First, you want to get more support from genre readers, so you need a strong logline to recruit a greater percentage of the niche audience. Right now, probably 95% of epic fantasy readers have read Lord of the Rings. Post-HBO, probably 75% of epic fantasy readers have read A Song of Ice and Fire. Pre-HBO, that was probably more like 25%. Bakker is probably at sub 5% and step one would be to increase that readership in genre.
But you want more than one approach, you would want a logline for the series that would sell it to people who watch game of thrones but don't typically participate in reading the genre.
You want a logline approach for the series that sells it to people who are readers or intellects who disdain the genre--but such people usually relish a good 'exception to the rule'.
And all of these approaches should be internally consistent and somewhat unified, they shouldn't be self contradictory.
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There was a thread that never really took off: PON for Twits[/b] (http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/pon-for-twits-t1228201.html) was probably an off-putting topic... One of the first few threads, relegated to the last page of Misc. Chatter.
I found it a challenge then and do now, lockesnow.
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Little Nemo with multiheaded dicks
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Lol, Ajokli.
We should just co-opt popular movie titles.
The Sum of All Reason. Planet of the Dunyain. Seven Years in Ishterebinth.
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Saurons Story: The early years
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Sounds good to me, Madness
I am still eagerly awaiting someone to create a thread titled:
'Team Serwe vs Team Esme'
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Lol. Team Esme.
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I sold PoN to friend with "an ancient cabal of sorcerers relives the world's apocalypse every night to stop a race of rape aliens from resurrecting pretty much nihilism itself"
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I wonder if Serwe would have had a whole bunch of people executed as a surrogate, if she had gotten to power?
She's not my favorite. But still...
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new 'selling' way of describing the series:
The Prince of Nothing reinterprets the First Crusade through a Game of Thrones-esque lens.
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PON is like the Twilight saga, the female lead is torn between two equally suitable gentleman whilst fighting to save the world from an evil vampire-like race.
PON is like Harry Potter, the main character is a wizard that is fighting a race of things like voldemort to save the world from their evil reign.
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Wtf... Some of y'all have a huge crush on Bakker. Full on man love.
The series directly follows the historical first crusade for three books, then its swarming with hordes of ravenous rape-monkey-werewolves (orcs) for the next three.
Then every single character its a huge whiny baby. Except kellus, who its super man and can make every person in the world cry. Then that person does his bidding.
The philosophical fluff, heard it all a thousand times before.
Anyway, its really tough to get normal people to read a book where a main character regularly rapes people, and chops up their children. Its even harder to get people not to judge you for reading a series where the bad guys stab rape holes into women and children as an interrogation method.
Me, I like this series. I do wish he would stick to a great story instead of rambling on for fifty pages about mimara/esmi's
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Anyway, its really tough to get normal people to read a book where a main character regularly rapes people, and chops up their children.
dude what have you been reading
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Anyway, its really tough to get normal people to read a book where a main character regularly rapes people, and chops up their children.
dude what have you been reading
Cnaiur kills a chieftains child after the scylvendi defeat. Then he throws the dead kids fingers and toes at the chieftains tent to goad him out, then murders the guy after killing his wives and kids in front of him. Also cnaiur rapes allot of people, also one of them a dude.
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except the reader is never meant to relate with cnaiur, or rather with anyone other character besides maybe akka. these were not characters written to fill up tumblrs or deviantart pages. sure, readers will relate to akka's self-doubt, esmi fearing for the safety of her children, cnauir's struggle with his demons, etc. but essentially they are all broken human beings. if you honestly think these books were written to attract pudgy greaseball nerds fist-pumping every time they read "peach" then I don't know what to tell you. earwa is the gym where Bakker's philosophy of life goes to workout. no shit things are gonna get messy.
depiction of horrific acts is not endorsement of the same. there is absolutely nothing difficult about this to understand about this. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you you're a prude for not liking the inchoroi and what they do, but I do give Bakker the benefit of the doubt because he has some very interesting ideas.
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I think SATXZ is saying it's hard to sell it to others - the 'you're a prude' argument aught to be aimed at them. For myself, I think the books are a hard sell in that it's more like trying to sell an educative text book - they are mostly educational. When I've thought about it, I've had trouble identifying anything, even small elements, in the books which is ever pure entertainment.
Personally I think all the characters can be related with - to a degree. Even as they also do horrible things. That's part of the gym - that, I think the books present character elements you can relate to, even as also part of the character is also horrific acts. I mean, Akka does kill a rather large number of people (and I'm talking Conpha's army, not even latter book stuff), cutting them up into little cubes.
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I just can't recommend it unless the person I'm talking to is what I would class as an advanced reader.
Pretty much for the same reasons SATXZ outlines above.
Chapter one; child gets orphaned, then raped, then murders the dude who bummed him.
Someone who thought Harry Potter was pretty edgy and hard done by 'cause he was forced to have a cupboard as a bedroom is probably gunna struggle right there.
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except the reader is never meant to relate with cnaiur, or rather with anyone other character besides maybe akka.
Actually, I'd say the reader is meant to relate to Kellhus, who is written as a deliberate Mary Sue (with the intent of fulfilling and subverting this common characteristic of genre protagonists), than any other character.
And Wilshire completely missed my point. I was using substitution. I didn't say A Song of Ice and Fire because only a handful of readers know that. I used Game of Thrones because that's the name of the series for millions. I used Game of Thrones because it's become convenient shorthand for "epic fantasy" without the negative associations that come with using the word fantasy. And using Game of Thrones conveys that something is contemporary, gritty, dynamic and set in another world. Substitution allows one to imply positive associations while avoiding those negative associations.
But I do find it interesting how insistent everyone is that the first thing to talk about is the rape in the novels. It reminds me of the reception of the movie Deliverance. That movie is known for it's rape, but the rape is only about a minute of a two hour movie, but it's anyone can talk about because it is such a 'violation' to show it as that movie does (or as these books do). if you're trying to disseminate the series, you don't start recruitment with a topic that almost everyone has an aversion to encountering (I change the channel when the news comes up on a rape or murder story).
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It was a joke, I got the point and I thought it was a good idea. Using a popular book in the same genre is something that would make a person more likely to try it out. I was just applying that logic in a silly way.
And yeah, I agree about the insistence of rape being a central theme. It happens, yes, but thats not what the series is about. Just because its in the books, doesnt mean you are ok with it or that you endorse it. I thought Django was a pretty good movie but I didn't feel left out because slavery was abolished and I can't own me a few slaves.
Typically, when trying to sell a product, its decidedly more difficult to do so by pointing out all the things that you think are wrong with it.
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I just can't recommend it unless the person I'm talking to is what I would class as an advanced reader.
Pretty much for the same reasons SATXZ outlines above.
Chapter one; child gets orphaned, then raped, then murders the dude who bummed him.
Someone who thought Harry Potter was pretty edgy and hard done by 'cause he was forced to have a cupboard as a bedroom is probably gunna struggle right there.
Spot on, exactly what I was saying.
I'm not some "fat prude", I really like the series. I own two copies of everything in print. Just my opinion, if you skip every esmi chapter then this series its the best thing out there.
But let's not kid ourselves. Shitting on religion and having child rape in chapter one, book one will never get you a series on TV. Ever. Also, you'll never have an asoiaf sized fan base. And for the record, deviantart is ducking awesome. Hating everything on the inter webz doesn't make you cool, it makes you trendy.
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Chapter one; child gets orphaned, then raped, then murders the dude who bummed him.
Acrackedmoon/Requires only hate didn't get past that, for example. >:)
I think pitch it more as an educative text. It's entirely valid for a text to cover adult issues - the only problem is the assumption on someone elses part that when they read fantasy that it wont involve adult issues. Bit of advance notice and it should be fine - assuming they can handle adult issues.
I will say though that most of the atrocities in the series - well, in other (thick) books they could be the lone subject. In most other books, they'd take one atrocity and make it the focus of the entire book. If a rape occurs, for example, the tradition is the entire book deals with that one rape. Then again, I don't really read books like that myself.
Also, you'll never have an asoiaf sized fan base.
Lose the message and you wont have a soul. Which is worse?
Heh - almost feels like the eighties again, this decade - not having the fan base is worse, of course!
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Well like Bakker said, he'd rather be rich than ugly.
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ROH went in primed to be upset by the book's use of rape though. As far as rapes in the novel, the chapter one rape is the most offscreen of them all.
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Fan bois always see an insult in every message.
Twilight. Huge fan base, got the author rich. That's the sort of writing the majority loves and pays for. At the same time, what gives us the right to judge them negatively because they would never be interested in bakkers books for the exact reasons I've previously given.
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Oh, I'd imagine some, perhaps 10% (perhaps more!) would be interested in Bakker. Just because you enjoy a fast food burger, doesn't mean you can't appreciate...a more complicated meal.
But yeah, I'd estimate were dealing in margins of other audiences. Cross road people.
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it's very flattering to view the readers of this forum as belonging to some elite, and to postulate that only other elites can 'get it' I don't think that's really very true, even if it makes us feel good. The books are not opaque and inaccessible, they're not directed at marginal audiences but mass audiences. Why else repurpose the ontological structures of so many classic genre works (Dune, Lord of the Rings, The Bible etc)?
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for some reason I didn't even think the boy gets raped in the prologue. but then again this is Bakker we're talking about soooo
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I'd have to disagree. The books are inaccessible, thus why the fan base is so small. Then again, maybe its just poorly written and popularity is strictly about how good the author is at writing and has nothing to do with the subject of the text.
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We'll all look at this thread in 20 years from now on our Google Mind 5.0 and laugh
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I'm a dedicated Normie, Ajokli ;). Practice is my augmentation.
Bakker seems to be looking to engage a mass readership but certainly not to appease them. Fiction is far more persuasive than non-fiction, unfortunately. And Bakker is consciously manipulating his readers.
Again, I started this thread (and this forum) to cultivate the cycle, which hopefully yields Bakker more money and facilitates more novel words from him for us.
lockesnow, I can certainly respect the grasp members (specifically, Old Names) have on this series. I certainly don't consider myself "elite," however, I do realize that the intellectual capacity of some members here, by the draw of intelligence (or inaccessibility) of Bakker's writings, far outstrips my own or that which I find elsewhere - like the academic institutions we partake in - and I have an opportunity to learn from this... "elite" wisdom.
I think there's inherent prejudice at work here (on no one's part specifically, perhaps, in the simple assumption that those who've been posting in the past 10 months are viciously inclusive or something?) - this place is about the expansion of our selves and our community, no one knows it all, as is obviously apparent, in the diverse knowledge sets brought to bear as speculative comparison.
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By no means did I intend my classification of 'advanced readers' as being elitist. A simple generalization drawn from my experience handing out recommendations for this and other works.
Offering some examples;
If I'm discussing reading materials with someone and they engage with the world-building, themes and genre tropes displayed in Dune I would probably recommend TSA.
OTOH if it is someone who has read WoT and mainly talks about the action and characters being original and amazing, I'm inclined to steer them to something else like Robin Hobb or GRRM if they want recommendations.
Generally the former example is someone who has read a lot more stuff and formed an individual critical language - it's a smaller and more refined group, yes, but I don't think it's elite or inherently better. Just a question of time investment and interest leading to different preferences.
I don't think Bakker particulary appeals to people who aren't interested in at least some of the extra interpretive challenges he weaves into his writing. Even amongst his fans there is a strong element of people who wish he would include more simplified and likable characters, for instance. OTOH I suspect the intricacy of the world building strongly appeals to those who enjoy digging deeper in epic fantasy.
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I'm a dedicated Normie, Ajokli ;). Practice is my augmentation.
There's an app for that.
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I believe lockesnow used the word elite, Curethan, and I was simply making a statement - I don't necessarily think the accusation was leveled at anyone in particular, lockesnow just seemed to be drawing our attentions to possibilities of implicit attitude.
Lol, +1, Callan. Fuck that noise ;).
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Yes, Madness is correct. I was more concerned with the implicit in-group self-congratulation going on than with leveling any sort of accusation.
I don't think these books are very hard. my scifi journey took me through The hobbit, Star Wars EU, Dune, Lord of the Rings, Anne McCaffrey, Orson Scott Card, Robin Hobb & GRRM (found them at the same time) and Bakker. Bakker seems of a piece with these, with more emphasis on the consequences of metaphysics than most speculative fiction (other than Dune). That's about it, for genre, for me. So in my evaluation, I don't really see a need to promote tiers of understanding in my recommendations, because to me it's already such a small field that there's not much point in distinguishing. Kellhus and Ender are very--VERY--similar, the former undermines the darker implications of what the latter might really be like. Kennitt and Conphas are very similar. Bakker seems to have situated himself squarely within the genre tropes, from my perspective, and I think it can just be picked up and read by most readers--the hardest part is not the world building or the metaphysics or the philosophy but the NAMES. Granted, I'm particularly weak at names, I've been posting on Westeros for twelve years and I still can't spell Danaerys right. Likeable characters are another consideration, but the problem there is that Bakker is never content to just have a Tyrion or an Arya character, he's got to constantly undermine the character for the reader; Bakker would never have Tyrion enjoy the company of whores because they'll tolerate his appearance (and his Tysha backstory), Bakker would have Tyrion enjoy raping whores (without thinking of it as rape, but so the reader can't mistake that its rape) because it's Tyrion's way of getting revenge on the whole female gender. Martin allows the reader to empathize with Tyrion's perspective while Bakker twists the reader's perspective towards judging and condemning the character or towards participating in the character's self deceptions and crimes--I think sometimes that Bakker views empathy as an especial form of crime that should be stamped out and eradicated, a delusion that should not be tolerated.
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Not seeing this apparent "self-congratulation" anywhere. This is probably the chillest board I've ever had the good fortune to find, and it honestly kind of bums me out there's a perception of Bakker fans as insular and circle-jerky. I will readily admit I may have contributed to that a bit in this thread, but only in reaction to what SATX's perceived as fanboyish tendencies. This is the only internet fandom that I know of that thoughtfully engages the source material and doesn't devolve into sexualization of its characters or other creepy things. I fully realize these are biases speaking, though. The internet has broken me.
it's me
im teh butthurt fanboy in the OP
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Lol. I appreciate you, bbaztek.
We walk a fine line... Especially, with our tendencies to endlessly question ;). There's a comfort in ignorance, and as we (Bakker fans) consciously seek to undermine such tendencies, specifically in our selves, others find us abhorrent - as we mark the loss of comfort?
Cheeky guesses.
I mean, I could bore posters/readers for hours with evidence of ingroup/outgroup homogeneity, group attribution errors, etc, ad nauseum...
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Dissemination Point: Local Coffee Shop's Leave One, Take One book shelf.
Drop Date: Aug 19/13
Book: The Darkness That Comes Before
Taken Before: Aug 21/13
Lol - I have too many copies of TDTCB ;). Next I think I'll leave Disciple.
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Nice. I finally saw another Bakker book at Half Price Books. It was WLW. I've seen 2 neuropath's, 2 DotD, and several of PON pass through there. Don't know if I'll be back there any time soon since I just moved, but hopefully that one gets moved.
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Dissemination Point: Local Coffee Shop's Leave One, Take One book shelf.
Drop Date: Aug 19/13
Book: The Darkness That Comes Before
Taken Before: Aug 21/13
Lol - I have too many copies of TDTCB ;). Next I think I'll leave Disciple.
What book did you end up taking off the shelf? Inquiring mind(s) would like to know.
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Nice. I finally saw another Bakker book at Half Price Books. It was WLW. I've seen 2 neuropath's, 2 DotD, and several of PON pass through there. Don't know if I'll be back there any time soon since I just moved, but hopefully that one gets moved.
Half Price Books is a used bookstore chain in Americaland?
Dissemination Point: Local Coffee Shop's Leave One, Take One book shelf.
Drop Date: Aug 19/13
Book: The Darkness That Comes Before
Taken Before: Aug 21/13
Lol - I have too many copies of TDTCB ;). Next I think I'll leave Disciple.
What book did you end up taking off the shelf? Inquiring mind(s) would like to know.
I just left one because I'm fucked up like that ;). Though I did read something, in perusal, called The Canadian Establishment, which read like standard, well-researched, not-so conspiracy fare.
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Anyone know if they still sell copies of WLW with this cover anywhere? or at least a larger version of the cover image? http://www.amazon.com/White-Luck-Warrior-Aspect-Emperor-Scott-Bakker/dp/B00AZ9FAF6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377198363&sr=1-1&keywords=white-luck+warrior
Ordered it through amazon and got a weird hodge-podge of the earlier WLW cover with the trademark black border.
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Half Price Books is a used bookstore chain in Americaland?
Yup.
Anyone know if they still sell copies of WLW with this cover anywhere? or at least a larger version of the cover image? http://www.amazon.com/White-Luck-Warrior-Aspect-Emperor-Scott-Bakker/dp/B00AZ9FAF6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377198363&sr=1-1&keywords=white-luck+warrior
Ordered it through amazon and got a weird hodge-podge of the earlier WLW cover with the trademark black border.
I'd try Barnes and Noble, though I'm no expert. I'm pretty sure thats the cover my friend has on his, and he got all 5 books at the same time there... or at least I think he did.
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Wow, that makes me sad for international buyers. Why wouldn't the US and UK publishers just make deals to carry the Canadian covers... so much better.
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I saw a "little library" outside someone's house yesterday . It was a cedar box with glass face that had room for maybe 5-10 books. It had a note inside that said to take a book and leave on in its place. I should go back and slide TDTCB in there and see what happens...
Apparently its an official thing: http://www.littlefreelibrary.org/
A small 'hope restored in humanity' moment.
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I should go back and slide TDTCB in there and see what happens...
You would change someone's life, Wilshire ;).
This little library seems an elegant way to disseminate knowledge.
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At some point I might upload say the first chapter of the audiobook of TDTCB on youtube, would be good to have a little teaser there for the curious.
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I think that might cross some reproduction legislation, neh?
Sometimes it saddens me that publishing advertisement experiences no innovation.
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I think that might cross some reproduction legislation, neh?
Sometimes it saddens me that publishing advertisement experiences no innovation.
Cross it? Maybe. But how active are Bakker's lawyers? Youtube my take it down after a while but several people might discover it by then.
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I have no idea, I wont do it unless i'm sure its legit.
However youtube is def a good place to advertise these things IMO.
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What teaser texts were given out for TDTCB? Perhaps you could release those in audio form?
It's still not actual permission to release anything. But on the other hand if it's already out in text form, its mostly pedantism to raise that issue in releasing the same material in voice form.
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Apparently its an official thing: http://www.littlefreelibrary.org/
A small 'hope restored in humanity' moment.
I have a strange urge to use these as a kind of 'Canary' (ala coal mines) to test various regions quality of mind.
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What teaser texts were given out for TDTCB? Perhaps you could release those in audio form?
It's still not actual permission to release anything. But on the other hand if it's already out in text form, its mostly pedantism to raise that issue in releasing the same material in voice form.
My idea was just to post a brief sample of the audiobook, like a few minutes. I'll hold off just to be on the safe side, but IMO its a good idea. If I was an author myself I'd probably do it.
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Check what sample audio bit they play on Amazon,Audible, or some other offical site where you can buy it. I'm sure those sites have some kind of right to play those clips, but you might be able to get away with posting those same ones on youtube. Maybe ;)
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Now that I have a stable computer again I'm seriously considering editing a conversation between a buddy and I where we range across topics post-WLW.
The Second Apocalypse Podcast ;).
I always had a strange urge to make my own audiobook of PON, though. Not that I particularly favor the sound of my own voice.
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Now that I have a stable computer again I'm seriously considering editing a conversation between a buddy and I where we range across topics post-WLW.
The Second Apocalypse Podcast ;).
I always had a strange urge to make my own audiobook of PON, though. Not that I particularly favor the sound of my own voice.
All good ideas.
Though has ever a fan made their own Audiobook? Is that even legal? It would be funny regardless though.
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Probably there is no precedent because fans are not fanatics.
It takes some zeal, no doubt.
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Someone should take that picture of Chorae to a metal shop and manufacture a few of them. Bakker could sell them in some kind of cheap pouches on his site. Maybe put different sigils on the outside... Like Sil's S's or the 3 sickles of Yatwer. You get the idea.
The perfect gift for your TSA enthusiast!
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Pffft - he'd sell two of them at a time, both attached at one end to some kind of holding stick (no wait...a 'grasping' stick)
No, but seriously it'd be pretty cool to have some of those swing from your backpack!! Certainly when people ask about them, they'd be easier to explain in interesting ways than the rape alien saga is.
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per Wert, Bakker is on his top 100 SFF selling authors of all time.
With a whopping 145,000 sold!
That's with only US figures, not counting UK and Canada.
But seriously, someone should tell Overlook et al so the blurb at the top of TUC can say, "One of the top selling fantasy authors of all time!" --Wertzone
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Wow really? That is very surprising, but he's down there at 95th,which is a "conservative estimate". I'd have never guessed.
Here is the link for those interested:
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-new-and-improved-sff-all-time-sales.html
Thought this was interesting too:
"Frank Herbert's Dune is the biggest-selling SF novel of all time, shifting 12 million copies by itself. I would hazard that most of the remaining 6 million copies are of the five other Dune novels as well."
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Honestly, I'm happy he's on the list and that it's quite possible that, conservative guess, some 30% - 40% of Bakker's digits are unaccounted for - allegedly.
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Somewhere else in the list it is mentioned that a rule of thumb of the industry, for foreign sales of books, is taking the # sold in the US cutting it in half and adding it to the total. I think this rule might safely be applied to Bakker, especially since he's not actually an american writer.
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per Wert, Bakker is on his top 100 SFF selling authors of all time.
With a whopping 145,000 sold!
That's with only US figures, not counting UK and Canada.
But seriously, someone should tell Overlook et al so the blurb at the top of TUC can say, "One of the top selling fantasy authors of all time!" --Wertzone
Not sure if this makes me feel more or less like a hipster. Is Bakker now "cool" because he's on this list, or has be already been cool and I just didn't know it?
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Hmm. I would ask the Nonmen but they are erratic and do not return...
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no-cool
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When you sell space on your website to advertisments, how specific can you be? Like if you did Amazon, could you specify what books you'd like to advertise? Probably not :(
Wouldn't it be entertaining to sell space to Penguin Press, or whatever other publishing company sells Bakker's books, and advertise his books on this site? Then you could get paid to do what we are kind of already doing, which is disseminating Bakker's stuff. Everybody wins, Bakker gets more sales (at no cost to him) and Madness gets two nickles to rub together for being awesome and running this site.
... we might have already discussed this somewhere but i cant find it.
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By becoming an amazon affiliate (which is easy enough) they give you link codes to whatever books you want to sell in particular (along with cute little graphic options for the link, if wanted). The codes can be just for a specific book. And obviously you can show several codes on one page. And a cut of any sales goes to the affiliate.
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Interesting... I'll definitely look into it when I find some time.
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I talked with the manager of my local Bookmans about getting RSB on a main display for a couple months and she plainly told me that if I can donate enough books to keep a stock on the display shelf, she will keep him out there... Anyone know the cheapest place to get a decent stock of Bakker books to donate?
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What condition? I bet many can be found in good, but not new, condition for cheap all around the internet. What are you looking for(#, condition, price), and what is Bookmans?
edit.
I like half price books, they are a used books store, and they've got a decent site. The link below has 16 copies of TDTCB for $0.99 each. (not sure about shipping)
http://www.hpbmarketplace.com/The-Darkness-That-Comes-Before-R-Scott-Bakker/book/8033202?qsort=p&matches=203&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused (http://www.hpbmarketplace.com/The-Darkness-That-Comes-Before-R-Scott-Bakker/book/8033202?qsort=p&matches=203&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused)
Edit. Edit.
I like this site as well. Its a bit search engine that looks through a bunch of sites and compares prices for you. Saves time when buying text books, but i'm sure it can be used to any book. Here is the search result for R. Scott Bakker:
http://booksprice.com/compare.do?inputData=R+Scott+Bakker&Submit2.x=-896&Submit2.y=-421&Submit2=Search&searchType=theAuthorName (http://booksprice.com/compare.do?inputData=R+Scott+Bakker&Submit2.x=-896&Submit2.y=-421&Submit2=Search&searchType=theAuthorName)
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What condition? I bet many can be found in good, but not new, condition for cheap all around the internet. What are you looking for(#, condition, price), and what is Bookmans?
edit.
I like half price books, they are a used books store, and they've got a decent site. The link below has 16 copies of TDTCB for $0.99 each. (not sure about shipping)
http://www.hpbmarketplace.com/The-Darkness-That-Comes-Before-R-Scott-Bakker/book/8033202?qsort=p&matches=203&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused (http://www.hpbmarketplace.com/The-Darkness-That-Comes-Before-R-Scott-Bakker/book/8033202?qsort=p&matches=203&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused)
Edit. Edit.
I like this site as well. Its a bit search engine that looks through a bunch of sites and compares prices for you. Saves time when buying text books, but i'm sure it can be used to any book. Here is the search result for R. Scott Bakker:
http://booksprice.com/compare.do?inputData=R+Scott+Bakker&Submit2.x=-896&Submit2.y=-421&Submit2=Search&searchType=theAuthorName (http://booksprice.com/compare.do?inputData=R+Scott+Bakker&Submit2.x=-896&Submit2.y=-421&Submit2=Search&searchType=theAuthorName)
The best condition possible, but pretty much any condition works. If it is in bad condition, it goes for a cheaper price. I honestly wanted to provide 5 or 6 copies of each book if possible with a funding ceiling of $100 to get started.
Bookmans is a self proclaimed entertainment exchange that is a local "chain" with about 6 locations throughout Arizona. I actually live around the corner from one, and a couple miles from half priced books as well.
http://www.bookmans.com/about-us (http://www.bookmans.com/about-us)
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I'd be willing to help out. Like ordering some and sending them your way or some such. Let me know.
edit
Anyway, if you look at the second link, you can find 5 or 6 of each book for around 5 each (including shipping). Though there are 5 books, which will max out your budget at $4 a piece so you'll have to look around, but its a place to start.
Also, amazon might have a couple.
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Sounds good. I will probably make the first donation in full, and then need help (hopefully) keeping them stocked enough to continue his display.
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Probably best to start a link like Bakker's paypal e-karma.
I'd definitely be down to pitch in.
Lmao, anyone interested in starting a Publishing House? 'Cause this is how it begins ;).
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Oh yeah sure a publishing house. My degree in chemical engineering and my 3 months experience in consulting will help out tremendously. 8)
Guess we could start some crowd source funding project to help us start out. How much would that cost lol?
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Well, ideally, we sign some kind of contract that protects us as investors. We can't profit from our facilitating Bakker's book sales (and ultimately doing the publisher's job for them) but using the same crowd-sourced investors as a publishing firm would be interesting. We'd have to volunteer our time to various jobs, etc, work with a small number of clients.
;).
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Can I turn this topic around (if it hasn't been done before)? Who introduced you to the Bakkerverse?
My father was the one that delivered the above mentioned favor. He recommended the book to me under the pretense that it was "dark" enough to pique my interest.
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Can I turn this topic around (if it hasn't been done before)? Who introduced you to the Bakkerverse?
My father was the one that delivered the above mentioned favor. He recommended the book to me under the pretense that it was "dark" enough to pique my interest.
I was out looking for some new books, hitting all the authors alphabetically I used to rigorously check out (before I started reading non-fic, fairly religiously). In my wandering through, finding nothing, I saw this beautiful black cover. Pulled it down. Read the jacket. Read some random open pages in the prologue and during the first two chapters somewhere. Put it back. Two weeks later, still hadn't found something new to grasp my attention. I saw it again when I returned. Finished it in two shifts at the gas station I worked at. Bought TWP. I thought initially that a WLW-esque (true appendage of Gods) was going to be TWP before I began reading that one - it was a mild disappointment then that it just described Kellhus' rise but now we have the WLW and Mimara so I was more than equally pleased.
I had to wait for TTT but then I literally read the books like back to back to back twice over course of a couple months before I realized a) that there was another series and this wasn't a standalone trilogy - mind blown - b) and that the Three-Seas forum existed - I had not the care enough for other books to talk about them online yet.
/monologue ;)
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I just picked up TTT at a used books store. It had a cool cover :P
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I was at a WH Smith's in Brent Cross, looking for something new to read. Started at the A's, came across a cool black-covered book, looked dark, had a blurb from Erikson on the front about how good it was, read the back, loved the names (SOOOOOOO tired of the faux European fantasy names, etc.), and bought it on the spot. Changed my life. Can't go back.
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Since there is a lack of fantasy books available in book stores where I live,I buy them online.Pure luck that his name popped up when I was randomly searching for some fantasy to read.Some guy just mentioned PON as "fantasy for grown ups,deeply philosophical,and it shows how mass delusion can form massive religions" So since I consider myself somewhat grown up,interested in philosophy and the nature of why people believe shit,I gave it a go.It turned out to be one of my better gambles so far :)
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I saw a map of Eärwa on some random site somwhere in the web. There was also a short review of the first book on the site and I liked the title "The Darkness that comes before".
The review was not so positive about the book: too dark, too complicated, too brutal, no main characters to root for, etc... ), all things, which I adore in my fantasy readings 8)
I must admit, I slogged through the first book at first, but somhow at the end, when the skinspy was revealed and the Holy War marches against Shimeh, I was hooked. I reread the whole book some weeks later, and found out, I had missed the best stuff and understand more and more about the characters and the world. After that, I bought all available books. And I hunger. Hunger... for... more.... 8)
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I think TSA was the first fantasy I read after being drawn into the genre through ASOIAF (before that I read very little fantasy, maybe a handful outside of Tolkien and Harry Potter, and mostly when I was younger). The exotic aspect of the world-building and culture is what initially drew me in the most, and it's probably the biggest inspiration I've taken from the series in my own writing -- as Somnambulist said, the same old medieval pseudo-European settings, names, etc. are boring as hell. I find it kind of baffling that with so much fantasy writing out there, so few authors have really attempted to branch out. Later on it was the depth of the world and metaphysics that kept me hooked though.
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I must admit, I slogged through the first book at first, but somhow at the end, when the skinspy was revealed and the Holy War marches against Shimeh, I was hooked.
This exactly.
When all the characters and stories converged near the end, I had this overwhelming feeling of awe. From that point forward I couldn't stop.
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I just picked it at random (well, I liked the art on the spine, the medieval stuff), I think I thought the title was cool in an ominous way (TDTCB) and flipped open an arbitrary page. It was at a time when I felt I lacked in reading anything, really, and should read something, but had no idea where to start. So I started largely at random. I flicked open a page at random (I think it was a conphas scene) and it had something interesting on it. I flipped to another page - something interesting. Third time was a charm. Really it only had to have had one interesting thing in three to four random page flips.
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I asked my feminist book club for books that had feminist themes, was recommended the works of Scott Bakker
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Nailed it.
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...
I'm inclined to think I shouldn't take this seriously.
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Maybe it was ironic book suggestion day and P.P. didn't get the memo?
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I asked my feminist book club for books that had feminist themes, was recommended the works of Scott Bakker
;D
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I've been in a couple Barnes and Noble bookstores, and it doesn't appear that they stock Bakker anymore. I haven't seen any of his books in any of those stores for a while. :(
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Read the synopsis in a book store, thought about it, went back and bought TDTCB.
Not even my local genre book shop stocks Bakker anymore. Frikkin' heathens.
Mind you, its like when I was a lad and folk turned their nose up at the mention of fantasy, sci fi et al. Now-a-day's media is saturation with stuff nerds pioneered. I feel like Bakker will one day be seen like JRR is today.
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I talked with the manager of my local Bookmans about getting RSB on a main display for a couple months and she plainly told me that if I can donate enough books to keep a stock on the display shelf, she will keep him out there... Anyone know the cheapest place to get a decent stock of Bakker books to donate?
One month later, anything ever happen with this? Not to put you on the spot or anything ;)
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I talked with the manager of my local Bookmans about getting RSB on a main display for a couple months and she plainly told me that if I can donate enough books to keep a stock on the display shelf, she will keep him out there... Anyone know the cheapest place to get a decent stock of Bakker books to donate?
One month later, anything ever happen with this? Not to put you on the spot or anything ;)
No worries, I brought it up in the first place. :D
I have 5 copies of tdtcb, twp, and ttt (that aren't my annotated or bookshelf copies). I will be purchasing 5 tje after my next paycheck and 5 wlw with the one after that. Raising a little shit demon is quite a bit more expensive than I had anticipated.
I haven't talked to the manager in two weeks, but last we spoke she was still game, so I still have high hopes.
I didn't bring it up again because my plan was to post a picture of the display as my update...
edit: I
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What are you paying for sets of five?
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Read the synopsis in a book store, thought about it, went back and bought TDTCB.
Not even my local genre book shop stocks Bakker anymore. Frikkin' heathens.
Mind you, its like when I was a lad and folk turned their nose up at the mention of fantasy, sci fi et al. Now-a-day's media is saturation with stuff nerds pioneered. I feel like Bakker will one day be seen like JRR is today.
And his kids with be managing the mmorpg rights...
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What are you paying for sets of five?
Right around $20 unfortunately. The books can be found just about anywhere online for .99 but you pay out the ass for shipping. If I was just patient and went to some used book stores I am sure I could cut it down to 15 or less.
But I am on track for 5 copies of each book with my original budget.
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Lol - I'll gladly give you money for one or two rounds, Garet. Let me know if there is an easy way to facilitate this.
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Lol - I'll gladly give you money for one or two rounds, Garet. Let me know if there is an easy way to facilitate this.
Second this. Send a PM.
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And his kids with be managing the mmorpg rights...
I've been playing Diablo 3 recently, and I can't help imagining how awesome an isometric Diablo-style game set in Earwa would be. There'd be some issues, like figuring out the dynamic between sorcerors and Chorae, since I don't think it's conducive to gaming as is, and also the fact that the enemies would have to mostly be variations on humans, sranc, and bashrag, but damn it, unleashing the crazy arcane stuff the Wizard does being transformed into some epic gnostic sorcery would be awesome as hell.
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Everyone just wants the Gnosis ;).
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And his kids with be managing the mmorpg rights...
I've been playing Diablo 3 recently, and I can't help imagining how awesome an isometric Diablo-style game set in Earwa would be. There'd be some issues, like figuring out the dynamic between sorcerors and Chorae, since I don't think it's conducive to gaming as is, and also the fact that the enemies would have to mostly be variations on humans, sranc, and bashrag, but damn it, unleashing the crazy arcane stuff the Wizard does being transformed into some epic gnostic sorcery would be awesome as hell.
Lol it would make a terrible mmorpg, not enough variety for monsters as of yet. You're better off RPing in a game like Path of Exile.
Might make a half decent RPG though. Could even add some morality.. I dunno fight your way through the sranc infested north to Golgotterath. DLC mansions, final dungeon would have to be the pit of atrocity, killing the Inchoroi.
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I don't know; you could have a non-man hero lost in Golgotteroth after it was sealed, fighting his way through the pits of the aborted.
Endless opportunity for uncontrollable weaponized critters and so forth.
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I don't know; you could have a non-man hero lost in Golgotteroth after it was sealed, fighting his way through the pits of the aborted.
Endless opportunity for uncontrollable weaponized critters and so forth.
Thats a good point. I forgot about how big golgotterath is supposed to be. Could make it like Dante's Inferno, ever circling down to greater atrocities.
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And his kids with be managing the mmorpg rights...
I've been playing Diablo 3 recently, and I can't help imagining how awesome an isometric Diablo-style game set in Earwa would be. There'd be some issues, like figuring out the dynamic between sorcerors and Chorae, since I don't think it's conducive to gaming as is, and also the fact that the enemies would have to mostly be variations on humans, sranc, and bashrag, but damn it, unleashing the crazy arcane stuff the Wizard does being transformed into some epic gnostic sorcery would be awesome as hell.
Having been giving some free hosting space recently, I've been meaning to get back onto, using how urban dead (http://www.urbandead.com/) works as a model for play, making a browser game for PON. Get killed, then you play sranc, until they are properly slain, then return as a human scalper...I think that'd tie in nicely to some of the themes of parralels in the book. Though other than that I'm afraid dishonouring the books themes (never mind that I probably only understand 70% of them - and that 70% is the more banal stuff). I'll note in regards to Wilshire's point that urban dead only has zombies as the enemy - and it's been going strong for years. Curethan's idea of being trapped as a non man IN golgoterath is pretty insane and bad ass, though! I was just going to focus on the scalper period.
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Callan: Good point about Zombie games. I guess there is the potential to make a decent game out of the limited Weapon-Races that we have. A lot of video games only have a handful of monsters anyway, and just re-roll color pallets later in the game. Boss-like monsters would still be a bit of an issue though, otherwise any game would just be the wholesale slaughter of endless horizons of sranc.... But there are other game types than RPGs. Maybe a RTS/TBS, or a shooter, or a stealth....
Anyway, back to "the topic":
I think I've settled on a new bit to convince people to read Bakker. After reading Game of Thrones, just the first book, I have decided upon a line of questions.
Do you read fantasy? (if the answer here is no, abandon ship for TSA, but perhaps consider Neuropath or DotD)
Do you like Game of Thrones? (Yes or no doesn't matter)
Why? (this is important, based on the response here determines whether I bother continuing)
Well, The Second Apocalypse is similar to GoT, though a bit darker and with more magic/creatures. The Darkness that Comes Before is the first book of the series, by R. Scott Bakker, and I always recommend it to people who enjoy GoT. You should check it out (and/or, if I know the person well enough: I've got an extra copy of it, I can lend it to you if you'd like).
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Oh gall. Lol.
So happy I found this thread again so I might stamp my commentary forever here.
Wilshire, your decision-tree reads like Jehovah's Witness 101 ;).
Yeah, I changed the joke since I told it last :P.
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I am in the process of contacting Half Price Books to try and start a similar project to Garet Jax. The goal at this point will be to get the books and have things green-lit around the time TUC is going to be released (whenever the hell that might be).
I'm planning to buy them new from amazon, since I figure that generates the most revenue for Bakker, and because I get free shipping so I'll probably end up saving money.
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Oddly enough I am good freinds with the manager of my local Waterstones store. Might be able to make something happen.
Garet I will also keep my eye out for copies as I often buy books in bulk online and from car boots sales. (Second hand sales I think they call the across the Atlantic.)
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Also have lent TDtCB to a freind at work.
Would be nice if someone I knew had actually read it!
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Oddly enough I am good freinds with the manager of my local Waterstones store. Might be able to make something happen.
You really should ask :).
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Oddly enough I am good freinds with the manager of my local Waterstones store. Might be able to make something happen.
You really should ask :).
Please do SR. I have 5 copies of the first 5 books waiting to be donated... Not sure if I updated anyone other than Madness, but after reading tdtcb, the manager changed her mind on putting him on a main display and instead relegated him to a shelf in the SFF section. So I never donated them. But now that this has resurfaced, I would love to try again there or many other places. More to follow after some beers and phone calls.
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Wow well that is a real shame. I was told by a local Half Price Books that they don't typically like to put too much focus on one author. Which is b.s. because I know they did something for GRRM at some point, but whatever.
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Some ideas from the Quorum. If we can get people to send MG some pictures of Bakkeresque things and their location, it could help spread the word?
Garet Jax: I have been talking with Madness, and kicking around the idea of gettings a shirt made as well as some sticker
Garet Jax:Then put them around the city or send you a picture of me wearing the shirt, so you can say (what ever you want really) but "Bakker fan from AZ" or something like that
mrganondorf: i had a shirt idea
have a huge raven where the top of the raven's neck ends at the shirt collar, be your own synthese
mrganondorf:someone just tweeted a good idea: the bar of heaven + logo "truth shines"
Garet Jax:Solid idea
I was thinking "Who are the Dunayin" on front. With a list of three or four websites on the back = walking billboard
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Second Apocalypse themed chess set. Someone make it so, and I will buy it.
I'd buy one as well.
King - Arc, capture this and you win
Queen - Inchoroi, the most powerful of the pieces
Bishop - Skin-Spies, strong yet subtle
Knight- Wracu, flies over the heads of other pieces
Rook- Bashrag, the powerful backbone of your offense
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Second Apocalypse themed chess set. Someone make it so, and I will buy it.
I'd buy one as well.
King - Arc, capture this and you win
Queen - Inchoroi, the most powerful of the pieces
Bishop - Skin-Spies, strong yet subtle
Knight- Wracu, flies over the heads of other pieces
Rook- Bashrag, the powerful backbone of your offense
I think the black set should be as noted above. The white set should be the "good" side. K, Akka, Esmi, SS, Proyas etc..
I just spoke with the manager of Bookmans, my local used bookstore, again. (Went to buy another, finally usefull chessbook) They only had a total of 2 Bakker books. I donated a 1 copy of the first 5... She asked why, I reiterated my mission, and she agreed to put him on a main display since I didn't take store credit for my donation.
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I think the black set should be as noted above. The white set should be the "good" side. K, Akka, Esmi, SS, Proyas etc..
Brilliant. Though I am having trouble decided who should be which pieces.
I just spoke with the manager of Bookmans, my local used bookstore, again. (Went to buy another, finally usefull chessbook) They only had a total of 2 Bakker books. I donated a 1 copy of the first 5... She asked why, I reiterated my mission, and she agreed to put him on a main display since I didn't take store credit for my donation.
Incredible news :).
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I wish we could buy direct from Bakker...
Under the table cash transactions anyone? All we need is a courier system, Madness can be our point man who exchanges the cash for the goods. From there we'll identify a trusted chain of people until its dispersed enough so the IRS doesn't flag anyone's paypal accounts. Keep withdraws/deposits under $200 a day, $1000 a week. ...
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Make bookmarks for Bakker and slip them in at book stores and libraries. Target books that would be likely Bakker readers: grrm, tolkien, dune. Bookmarks could say "Who are the Dunyain?" or have fan art. People might be likely to keep the bookmark or pass it on if it looks neat. If we have any design folks around here, you could format it and post it here, and then we could print them up whenever. Other books to stick them in? Warhammer 40k?
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MG that is brilliant. I want to do the bookmarks at every bookstore I walk into now.
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I'd be up for helping out with that. My day job is graphic design and art direction, so I have all the software to set those kinds of things up. Let me know how I can help.
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You're awesome Somna.
All idea's welcome. What would make a good bookmark for TSA?
We are looking for ideas that will:
1) Make people want to keep the bookmark.
2) Will inspire people to look up R. Scott Bakker and/or buy one of his books.
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I think a really cool looking image with TSA on the back and a simple question'
My recommendations would be:
Who are the Dunyain?
The No-God Rises...
The Second Apocalypse
I would personally slip these into GRRM, Brent Weeks, LotR, Brandon Sanderson.
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Joe Abercrombie and China Mieville are also candidates. Any fantasy that is darker than your typical LotR knockoff. More author suggestions? I'm not as well versed as some folks.
I would stay away from Second Apocalypse, as there are religious overtones and a lot of nut job theories about Apocalypse nonsense. Too easy to get lost on the way here.
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Here are a couple of first drafts, same theme, just vertical and horizontal options. These are just jumping off points, to see what people like, don't like, sizes, etc. etc.
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Honestly, it looks too much like sanskrit or arabic for me, but I'm uncultured :P
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I like the top (vertical) one. Possibly that on front and then your rendition of Kellhus (which I stole for my twitter account) on the back?
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I'm not entirely sure we could get away with this one (from a copyright standpoint), but it's made to look like the cover of my copy of TDTCB (uses the same font, image, but I created a simple background texture for it). It draws a visual association with the first book, but I realize there are other cover versions out there. Thoughts? Also, the cost of printing these is going to need to be taken into account if sending to a printer. Full color, full bleed, double-sided will be more expensive than grayscale single-sided with a white border. They could be set up to print on a color printer on card stock, doing all the cutting manually, and that would save a lot of money, but be more time intensive depending on how many you'd want. Blah. I guess those are just details. Anyway...
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I like that one better than the [first] couple.
Hmm, what about incorporating a map of earwa as the background to one of these?
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I like that one better than the couple.
Hmm, what about incorporating a map of earwa as the background to one of these?
People do love maps!
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Map version. This is the best quality map I could find. If anyone has a better one, we could use that instead.
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I really like that one, and it can be done in black/white, which is nice.
I'll look around and see what I can find later today, that map is of mediocre quality :P.
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Map O' Earwa: PON Wiki (http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110823120645/princeofnothing/images/0/01/Earwa.jpg)
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Would be nice if someone made up a logo for the PoN Wiki.
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It'd be nice if the people running the PON/TSA Wikis would communicate and coordinate with us at all :).
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It'd be nice if the people running the PON/TSA Wikis would communicate and coordinate with us at all :).
lol yeah it would.
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Thanks, Madness. I think the quality is a little better than the last one, but still not great unfortunately.
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Damn... would it be possible to make a little thinner and taller and a little less black at the top?
And perhaps (if we can do two sided somehow) www.rscottbakker.com and www.second-apocalypse.com wouldn't hurt either? Though, I guess then people wouldn't search "Who are the Dûnyain?" themselves...
Maybe scratch the url thoughts.
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I think RSB's site is a good idea.
Also, is the black and white map on his site any better?:
http://www.rscottbakker.com/fan-resources/
Edit:
actually, I'm on the fence about the website.
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Somna this fucking rocks. Bakker's not only the best fantasy writers, he's got the best fans. Will Neil Gaiman be jealous that no one's doing this for him? :P
Other authors?
Cormac McCarthy
Michael Moorcock
Glen Cook
Peter Watts
Daniel Abraham
Robert Howard
Jeff Vandermeer
Patrick Rothfuss
Jim Butcher
Mark Lawrence
Christopher Paolini
Lev Grossman
Susanna Clarke
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I think a website address would be good. Is it bad to want to put the Second Apocalypse forum over Bakker's? lol Is that blasphemy?? :)
Madness: Sure, I'll fiddle with the dimensions. Only factor in making it 2-sided is cost. My local UPS store has a pretty good color copier that can do 2-sided pretty well. I imagine the BW one would work just as well. Other locations should be the same. Just the cost factor, I guess. Obviously, a 'real' print shop could do it, but again, costlier. I can certainly do up some versions that are color/2-sided if people want.
Wilshire: That's where I got the first one, so... nope.
Cheers, MrG. I think they're just okay. Trying to give them some time, but make them simple and effective. Don't know if I'm succeeding, but... anyway.
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latest
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By far my favorite so far.
Don't worry, I kind of wanted to put us on there too :P. Bakker's site is just so much less interesting than us here! .. Both? Neither? Each has its own to offer. Bakker's page is at least professional and pretty obvious what its for. Our forum is more useful for actually interacting with people, but might a bit overwhelming for a newbie.
The only with with branding it, either way, is it kind of removes the "mystery" bit that I think Madness was going for. On the up side, it removes Google ambiguities. On that note, perhaps we should make a Wikipedia page lol.
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The only with with branding it, either way, is it kind of removes the "mystery" bit that I think Madness was going for. On the up side, it removes Google ambiguities. On that note, perhaps we should make a Wikipedia page lol.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't keep the .com on the bookmarks I slip out. Considering the number of books stores I can cover myself (which actually are a fair amount for one person), it probably wouldn't take long before someone had the opportunity to identify me as the "perpetrator."
Without branding, there is absolutely no blow-back on anyone but the people specifically "donating" bookmarks to different books ;).
EDIT: I really like the idea of us being pompous enough to describe what we're doing on a wiki page like "Frodo Lives!"
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqaqxNyCYAALhax.jpg)
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That's great GJ. 4 per page will cut down on costs.
A wiki might get some google hits... SR needs to learn me how that works (google hits).
We could basically just copy the Frodo Lives wiki, replace any references to Tolkein to Bakker and "Who are the dunyain". Link all the fan resources as references: twitter, both wikia's, this site, ZTS, TPB, reddit, Bakker's site, wikiquotes, tvtropes... Maybe use Somna/Quinth's artwork to spruce it up.
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Here's the version without the url, per Madness' suggestion. These are just screen resolution captures, so let me know when you are happy with the product and I can provide a printer's PDF for production. Will be cleaner than using what I post here.
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Yeah, I think it should be basically a satirical yet informative version of the "Frodo Lives!" page.
Lol - thanks, Somnambulist.
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Well, at least to start, we could go with no branding.
After some time we could go then start using ones with this website, to give people a place to actually go. The point is to bring people here and get them to read the books, so putting this site shouldn't be an issue.
Its not like its going to be a secret what we are attempting. Its all detailed here in the topic :P.
Anyway, once we finalize a design, we still need to work on having the google search actual point to someplace useful, which isn't what it is doing right now. There is yet work to be done before the bookmarks should be printed, or we'll lose people due to our lack of organization.
A wiki to write, a FAQ to post, metadata to tag... The list grows.
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Actually, someone around my campus did this same kind of thing, though with chalk. A group wrote some number, might have been 311, all over campus, and no one knew wtf it was. After a few weeks they started providing a website underneath the numbers, and I bet it worked out pretty well. Everyone was curious to find out what it was.
Problem for us in Dunyain is unique enough for people to get results in google that are specific to the books, but potentially not good jumping off points for a newbie, thus my suggesting to wait for a bit until everything gets straightened out.
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Also, we don't know how long it will take for enough people to find the bookmarks for a buzz to build.
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It might be difficult to "build a buzz" because people probably don't frequent bookstores. Most people will encounter the bookmarks maybe once or twice in a few weeks time. After month I imagine the staff will have noticed something, and I don't know if that is good or bad.
I'd guess a few weeks to a month after the first drop, per location, would be plenty of time. I don't know many people that "frequent" bookstores, certainly not more than once a month. The goal might be to get people once unbranded, and again with a website. Those that were curious the first round probably already tried to google it (hopefully successfully leading them here). Those who get the second one with the site will hopefully get curious enough to go to the site.
One side note, we might just end up with a bunch of really confused readers wondering when the mysterious Dunyain will show up in the book they are reading :P.
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Dear Joe Abercrombie,
I recently read your book Before They Are Hanged and I discovered there-in a bookmark asking "Who are the Dûnyain?" I dutifully used the aforementioned bookmark while reading your book in the anticipation of the answer to this riddle. However, nowhere in this book, nor the greater trilogy are these "Dûnyain" mentioned?
What kind of troll are you?
Sincerely,
A Confused Fan
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;) exactly. We'll have to pick through forums and see if the Question is asked.
btw if we keep using the phrase it will lead people to wherever we use it at. So this thread shows up in the google search :P
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Which is probably why it's good if everyone posts a little spoiler-free blurb in the thread itself, no?
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One side note, we might just end up with a bunch of really confused readers wondering when the mysterious Dunyain will show up in the book they are reading :P.
That's what I was thinking. Maybe when the Dunyain don't show up in their book, they will take to google...
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Instead of a url, we could put 'google it' on the bottom of the bookmark. lol
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Just to let you guys know.
I have asked an ex-colleague of mine who specialises in SEO to give me a call when he has some time so we can get this done properly. Who are the Dunyain gives the first result of Who destroyed Ishual - we don't want spoilers for the newbs.
Once I have spoken to my friend I will let you all know.
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Instead of a url, we could put 'google it' on the bottom of the bookmark. lol
Do people need to be told to Google questions?! seriously!! :)
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It might be difficult to "build a buzz" because people probably don't frequent bookstores. Most people will encounter the bookmarks maybe once or twice in a few weeks time. After month I imagine the staff will have noticed something, and I don't know if that is good or bad.
I'd guess a few weeks to a month after the first drop, per location, would be plenty of time. I don't know many people that "frequent" bookstores, certainly not more than once a month. The goal might be to get people once unbranded, and again with a website. Those that were curious the first round probably already tried to google it (hopefully successfully leading them here). Those who get the second one with the site will hopefully get curious enough to go to the site.
One side note, we might just end up with a bunch of really confused readers wondering when the mysterious Dunyain will show up in the book they are reading :P.
Sure would be great if we could figure out a way to put a 'digital bookmark' into kindle copies, but I guess that is impossible/illegal. Hmm, tapping audiences from a from a digital pov, maybe we could put "who are the dunyain?" in the bottom corner of popular porn flick uploads.
Seriously though, Wilshire you mentioned the ability to buy books directly from Bakker--i don't know if that would work, but if there's any funds at all to be had, then maybe tsa would want to buy ad space on sci/fi fantasy blogs, reddit, twitter, whatever.
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Just to let you guys know.
I have asked an ex-colleague of mine who specialises in SEO to give me a call when he has some time so we can get this done properly. Who are the Dunyain gives the first result of Who destroyed Ishual - we don't want spoilers for the newbs.
Once I have spoken to my friend I will let you all know.
You're amazing.
Instead of a url, we could put 'google it' on the bottom of the bookmark. lol
Do people need to be told to Google questions?! seriously!! :)
Apparently they do. I have to do it for people all the time. I mean some people don't even know about quotation marks... Sometimes, I worry....
In all seriousness though, please don't put that at the bottom of the bookmark lol. People reading TSA should make that cognitive link themselves.
Seriously though, Wilshire you mentioned the ability to buy books directly from Bakker--i don't know if that would work, but if there's any funds at all to be had, then maybe tsa would want to buy ad space on sci/fi fantasy blogs, reddit, twitter, whatever.
This has been discussed from time to time, no one has pulled the trigger. Someone pages back mentioned doing something similar once... No one has looked into costs or done anything officially though.
Of course, I'd potentially be willing to pitch in, but I'm too lazy currently to do that research myself.
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Madness/FB/anyone - Do you think we should separate all the "Bookmarks" discussion into its own topic? Its covered at least an entire page here and we are running close to our 15 page limit.
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trying to make it viral, new look:
https://twitter.com/Bakker_Fanatics
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trying to make it viral, new look:
https://twitter.com/Bakker_Fanatics
Soma can make a horizontal version of the final bookmark for MG's twitter once we get it settled?
MG, look good to me, I like the Dunyain picture as well. Thanks for running with that twitter account, awesome work.
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Thanks Wilshire!
Getting a few favorites and retweets today--I guess the more silly little retweets, the more people will see the account.
Curious--what does @Bakker_Fanatics look like from computer/phone that's not mine? Hard to judge the aesthetic... Plase halp!
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Soma can make a horizontal version of the final bookmark for MG's twitter once we get it settled?
You betcha
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On my phone I can't make out the Who are the Dunyain behind the Kellhus picture, MG. It looks good regardless, I like Quinthane's sketch-style on black on white.
Also, Pat's Fantasy Hotlist (http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.ca/) has unbid ad-space that is just sitting there...
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I thought it might look like that. Suggestions?
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https://www.projectwonderful.com/advertisehere.php?id=57890&type=3&_r=http%3A//www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D740.195%3Btopicseen
Its $0.50 a day for that space, for as long as you like I guess.
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It'd be nice if the people running the PON/TSA Wikis would communicate and coordinate with us at all :).
You guys should create your own wiki then...
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It'd be nice if the people running the PON/TSA Wikis would communicate and coordinate with us at all :).
You guys should create your own wiki then...
There are already 2 wikia's, no need for a 3rd redundant one with similar information. What would be nice to see would be the major contributors of both existing ones to consolidate their efforts. One really great site would be far better, imo, than two mediocre sites.
The online RSB community is rather fractured, and with so few fans, I think its easy for those seeking information to get lost. I believe Madness just wishes he had the ability to communicate with those people who run their own fan sites, so that efforts such as the Bookmarks, or the Coordinated Amazon purchases, could be more widely known and have greater participation.
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For MG, mobile Twitter header. Again, let me know if it needs adjustment.
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+1 Wilshire & Somnambulist.
Also, Wilshire, that Pat's advert space sounds affordable... do we link here or rscottbakker.com?
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Thats a good questions. Where and what to advertise :P
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+1 Wilshire & Somnambulist.
Also, Wilshire, that Pat's advert space sounds affordable... do we link here or rscottbakker.com?
I didn't look past the first page from the link but if there is a way to have it alternate between both rscottbakker.com and here, that would be ideal.
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Yeah I have no idea if it would cycle or what. Might be that every person that pays for that spot gets time, so each image would cost $0.50 a day. I really don't know though.
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Lol - $0.50 is the 'Merican rate ;). I should probably be paying for this, I guess... $0.10 Canadian.
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There are already 2 wikia's, no need for a 3rd redundant one with similar information. What would be nice to see would be the major contributors of both existing ones to consolidate their efforts. One really great site would be far better, imo, than two mediocre sites.
The online RSB community is rather fractured, and with so few fans, I think its easy for those seeking information to get lost. I believe Madness just wishes he had the ability to communicate with those people who run their own fan sites, so that efforts such as the Bookmarks, or the Coordinated Amazon purchases, could be more widely known and have greater participation.
Agreed, but honestly, the whole PON/TSA wikis thing is total farce. It's the same content and they keep copying each other whenever one of them makes a new entry. I guess if they can keep up with each other then there is no harm for now?
TSA wiki has a half decent background though...
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I think its just at a point where the participants of each one likely feel like they have invested too much to combine and/or drop their site. As long as they keep both sites looking good, there really is not harm done.
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Yeah, you're right. ASOIAF has two wikis as well. But I wonder why the people who are more invested and knowledgeable about the series either from here or Westeros don't contribute. These wikis need a lot of work.
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Interestingly enough, there are all of three people who seriously edit those wikis from what I understand.
One person founded PON Wiki and another founded TSA Wiki because the PON founder wasn't doing anything. Then another user has now come along and gotten Admin powers from the first founder at PON.
In both cases it is difficult to do anything without Admin powers...
I tried to link up Quinthane's and Somnambulist's pictures to entries a couple times at PON wiki... Edited something once or twice too. Somewhere I got frustrated in my inability to code or something, probably.
These wikis need a lot of work.
And yet they had almost the same number of entries last time I checked, which would imply they're reaching their maximum content saturation points (though, I think the second contributor on PON is literally going through the books now page by page to find Pronouns that have been missed).
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It's not really about page count. There is plenty to be done in terms of updating character pages now that the JE and WLW have been published, for instance take Fanayal:
Fanayal ab Kascamandri is the first-born son of Padirajah Kascamandri ab Tepherokar, and leader of the Coyauri, his famed elite heavy cavalry.
Or even Esmenet:
Esmenet is a whore from Sumna, a friend and lover of Drusas Achamian who gets caught up in the events of the Holy War.
Or just take a look at Proyas' page, one of the more important characters in the series, and almost nothing...
http://2nd.wikia.com/wiki/Nersei_Proyas
And before you say it, I know I should be contributing more as well. :)
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Lol :).