Bakker's The Second Apocalypse Media Circus

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Madness

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« on: May 25, 2016, 10:07:25 pm »
So... what does everyone think of TGO rollout process so far? As a curious student of social systems, how they form and disseminate information, I'm interested to hear everyone's different experiences recounted. What's worked, possibly working, could work better?

I feel like seeing as there are up to three more possible reviews than just Pat's for a contemporary release, plus Grimdark and Grim Tidings Podcast soon to come ARC giveaways, the Hotlist and Grim Tidings interviews, and a possible Reddit AMA before release that there's been an incrementally (by no means best possible) better push for Bakker this release.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 10:16:33 pm by Madness »
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Somnambulist

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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2016, 12:29:39 am »
Add this to the list:  a series of original promo illustrations (5 in total), released through Overlook's social media at one week intervals, starting June 6, on the run-up to the release date of TGO.  Accompanying each are quotes relevant to the images.  Basically, full-page ads promoting the book.

I never really paid attention to releases and hype surrounding them.  So, all this static in the airwaves seems like a lot of 'good press' to me.  I can only hope it's not all pandering to the in-group already waiting for the book, and it actually entices people who are unfamiliar with, or had been resistant to, the series previously.  Fingers crossed.

In terms of what could be done better...  official marketing and/or promotions?  Contests (a la, fanfic, fanart, etc.).  Dare I say more author/fan interaction on a sustained/sustainable level?  That's probably the most important one, tbh.  Being accessible.  Mark Lawrence comes to mind.  The guy is prolific, and interacts regularly with his fan-base.  I realize our man is not that sort, but still...  Maybe he needs a PA, someone in charge of making sure there's some kind of regular communication between the top of the mountain and the masses gathered at its base.

Rambling.
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Madness

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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2016, 01:56:47 pm »
Lol - just seeing your name reminded me to I forgot to mention. There have also been two - huge! - excerpts and a stellar trailer made, in part, by our very own, Somnambulist ;).

Add this to the list:  a series of original promo illustrations (5 in total), released through Overlook's social media at one week intervals, starting June 6, on the run-up to the release date of TGO.  Accompanying each are quotes relevant to the images.  Basically, full-page ads promoting the book.

Congrats and congrats, Som. I can't wait to see that connection come to fruition.

I never really paid attention to releases and hype surrounding them.  So, all this static in the airwaves seems like a lot of 'good press' to me.  I can only hope it's not all pandering to the in-group already waiting for the book, and it actually entices people who are unfamiliar with, or had been resistant to, the series previously.  Fingers crossed.

Well - I mean, data is sparse. Firstly because the portion of the fandom that participates online across all mediums is probably a disparagingly low percentage of his book-buying readership. There is also probably a percentage of that book-buying readership that lurks online but doesn't participate leading to the second data problem, which is declaration. I don't care for information gathering but we don't know enough to gauge, other than what people post about themselves and their book-buying intent and the demographics different mediums provide about those participants.

Wilshire and I have talked about the "all press is good press." I'd have to see some numbers to form a better opinion. Of the differing mediums ("places people talk about Bakker on the internet"), I'd say that reddit clearly has the most vocal number of those who like the series, don't like the series, but more importantly have not read the books, read only PON, or tried reading part-way into the saga and stopped for reasons other than not loving the series. Westeros has been occupied entirely by either the "Outside" scene from the Ch. 1 excerpt or the "Whale-Mothers" from Pat's (so far unidentified numbered) chapter excerpt - the latter clearly dominating the conversation and not to benefit of Bakker or, more importantly, "possible new reader's random exposure to Bakker by way of the eternal thread on Westeros." And we're basically the worst - despite Somnambulist and MG doing real outreach work - as there is very little discussion of the reviews or excerpts here because 60% and quickly rising (of our content-generating regulars) have already read ARCs and so disappeared I know not where for fear of infecting those who remain and those who lurk with their pollution ;).

GJ's poisoned me, what with his pointing out our mutual affection for hyperbole recently :P.

In terms of what could be done better...  official marketing and/or promotions?  Contests (a la, fanfic, fanart, etc.).  Dare I say more author/fan interaction on a sustained/sustainable level?  That's probably the most important one, tbh.  Being accessible.  Mark Lawrence comes to mind.  The guy is prolific, and interacts regularly with his fan-base.  I realize our man is not that sort, but still...  Maybe he needs a PA, someone in charge of making sure there's some kind of regular communication between the top of the mountain and the masses gathered at its base.

Rambling.

Not rambling and you know from our conversations otherwise that I am quick to cite Lawrence, then Abercrombie, as the best at online interactions with fandom.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 01:59:13 pm by Madness »
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Wilshire

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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2016, 09:44:40 pm »
I can't say I ever paid attention to any book pre-release like this, so I have no idea.

At least it's something. It hints at real efforts to sell books, which is nice.

I'm not sure how much rabble rousing you can do for book 5 of 6... but I'm glad there is something out there.

My guess is giveaways generate the most publicity, so tying one to GdM and others is great.

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Darzin

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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 04:37:44 am »
Well as an idea to raise his profile on book 5 and 6 when the Unholy Consult comes out I think we should try to get the Aspect Emperor series nominated for a Hugo award not sure if the Judging Eye or White Luck Warrior have been nominated before but if they haven't we can get the series as a whole nominated.
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Madness

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2016, 01:23:36 am »
I can't say I ever paid attention to any book pre-release like this, so I have no idea.

Right - I likewise can only compare it to previous Bakker releases (my understanding of musical album rollouts is much more informed). Traditionally, Pat's Fantasy Hotlist has been it regarding promotion and as I understand it that was Bakker's doing entirely - nothing on the part of his publishers previously. That "traditionally" would be an excerpt, interview, and review basically right as they are happening now (Pat's review and excerpt are up and the interview is "being sat upon to look at with fresh eyes" - whatever that means regarding a published time-frame).

At least it's something. It hints at real efforts to sell books, which is nice.

I'm not sure how much rabble rousing you can do for book 5 of 6... but I'm glad there is something out there.

Well, if there's rabble to rouse, it's been done on our parts, I think. There's another recent thread on r/fantasy revealing even more of that hitherto untapped population of Bakker fans. I do hope Bakker commits to an AMA.

My guess is giveaways generate the most publicity, so tying one to GdM and others is great.

Yeah. Grim Tidings and Grimdark Magazine are all borne of the same soup - the facebook group "Grimdark Fiction Readers & Writers," I believe, but it's great that there are ARC giveaways. I think Pat's excerpt could have been chosen to leverage Bakker's exceptional prose to garner new readers rather than dealing out morsels for those heavily invested already but Overlook went with a safe play on the prologue and chapter one at Grimdark Mag so mayhaps together the excerpts serve both purposes of appeasing the fandom and attracting new readers.

It recalls Somnambulist's author interaction comment above - on ZTS, during the two years that TWP and TTT came out, it's evident that Bakker was traveling to promote the book, doing signings, interviews (even one mentioned on ET Canada, which I can't find online - haven't looked hard enough), and randomly sending books to fans on the forum.

Well as an idea to raise his profile on book 5 and 6 when the Unholy Consult comes out I think we should try to get the Aspect Emperor series nominated for a Hugo award not sure if the Judging Eye or White Luck Warrior have been nominated before but if they haven't we can get the series as a whole nominated.

I don't think Bakker's been nominated for many awards - mostly, I think, because nominations have never coincided with releases?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 01:53:26 am by Madness »
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Wilshire

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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 04:16:05 pm »

It recalls Somnambulist's author interaction comment above - on ZTS, during the two years that TWP and TTT came out, it's evident that Bakker was traveling to promote the book, doing signings, interviews (even one mentioned on ET Canada, which I can't find online - haven't looked hard enough), and randomly sending books to fans on the forum.
I'm always jealous of tales from that particular past. Signings and book giveaways... alas.
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Madness

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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 02:07:52 am »
Lol - right?
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Omnirom

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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2016, 11:54:28 am »
Surely a choice quote from the author could help steer the feminist twitter sphere into forgetting that real people are being killed every day in the real world and help focus media attention on a book with dragons ?

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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 01:43:07 pm »
Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."

But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?

Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)
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Omnirom

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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2016, 04:24:53 pm »
Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."

That is such a beautiful quote.  The "god save us" part didn't register at first; brilliant.

 
Quote
But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?

No energy or inclination to fight this fight now.  Just hope that not one character of the text was influenced by auto-invalidated thought fascists.

 
Quote

Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)

Functionally GRRM. Another 100,000 nodes which have processed Bakker in the world would make it a better, more effective place.

Madness

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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2016, 04:51:33 pm »
Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."

That is such a beautiful quote.  The "god save us" part didn't register at first; brilliant.

Just something I stole from someone more articulate than I :).

Quote
But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?

No energy or inclination to fight this fight now.  Just hope that not one character of the text was influenced by auto-invalidated thought fascists.

Lol - I personally don't think it influenced The Second Apocalypse narrative, past, present, or future. I know it influenced some of his past (future?) yet to be released writings (in ways that I think are both peripheral and inconsequential but will placate those kinds of criticisms).

Quote

Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)

Functionally GRRM. Another 100,000 nodes which have processed Bakker in the world would make it a better, more effective place.

Agreed. Seems like it would yield dividends to a greater swatch of humanity and our interaction with Reality.

EDIT: Though, if we can't have GRRM, I'd love if MG's bakkerfans quote graced the cover 8)!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 05:09:30 pm by Madness »
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Omnirom

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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2016, 07:08:11 pm »
Quote

EDIT: Though, if we can't have GRRM, I'd love if MG's bakkerfans quote graced the cover 8)!

jajaja, great call !

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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2016, 06:08:49 pm »
Who would you wish to blurb the next book

Thinking about this more, Umberto Eco could have been interesting; intellectually closer and likely to have helped attract a very different set of readers than GRRM.

Alas, it's a few months too late.

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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 12:14:36 pm »
I'm halfway through Name of the Rose right now. A philosophy prof recommended it to me years and years ago and I only remembered to pick it up the day after Eco died (and started reading it a week or so ago on and off).

Really good book.
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