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Messages - Cynical Cat

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211
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Moenghus is a lying liar who lies
« on: August 11, 2016, 07:09:51 am »
Upon consideration, we cannot rule out that particular form of long range communication from being within the capabilities of the other branches of sorcery.  It is the only instance that I can recall of communication between two fixed points at an appointed time.  All the other times its between an unknown point (the sender) and a fixed point (the receiver).  In the case of projecting Skaurus, it involves a scheduled appointment between Skaurus's citadel with an unknown number of Cishaurim and Moenghus at the other end in the Emperor's throne room.  I imagine it to be likely, given the broad capability overlap shone between the branches, that the other types of of magic could manage that as well.

212
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Moenghus is a lying liar who lies
« on: August 10, 2016, 06:14:49 pm »
The Cishaurim in the battle of Shimeh instantly went down when struck by Chorae, Moenghus did not so we can definitely tell his slow death wasn't due to him being Cishaurim.  As for the long range communication, the Scarlet Spires are capable of that and its easy enough that you don't need a sorcerer of rank to handle it.  It's clear that the long range communications powers of the Cishaurim work differently, but no other sorcerers blast people by pouring burning light from their foreheads either.  The Psukhe is different and there's no indication that sending Skaurus's image required brute strength as opposed to skill and we know Moenghus had skill.  Moenghus never demonstrates any sorcerous strength at all.

213
RPG Discussion / Re: Any pen&paper roleplayers here?
« on: August 09, 2016, 11:10:21 pm »
I've had a lot of experience with Roll 20.  My current RPG playing crew is international and we play over Roll 20 after switching from Screen Monkey.  It's pretty good and there's even scripts out there that allow you to simulate the funky nonstandard dice used in Star Wars or Warhammer Fantasy.

214
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: The Consult and the Sranc
« on: August 09, 2016, 11:50:29 am »
The Battle at Caraskand is based on the Siege of Antioch in the First Crusade.  The starving Crusaders emerged from the city to fight an overwhelmingly large and well provisioned Muslim army, but they had "discovered" the holy lance that pierced the side of Christ inside Antioch and were convinced that God was with them.  As has been mentioned by Darzin, morale is utterly crucial in battles where you fight in hand to hand conflict.  That's why a good Spartan came back with his shield or on it (because a shield is the first piece of gear a hoplite chucks when running away) and the warrior codes of so many western cultures focus on courage as the epitomy of virtue.  Most of the killing is done when an army breaks and its order collapses, with cavalry doing a lot of the killing. 

215
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Side Effects of Eating Sranc
« on: August 09, 2016, 11:39:19 am »
Those blurbs are written by add people, not the writer.  They exist to try and hook your attention.  Of course Kelhous arranged to have prisoners and volunteers eat Sranc and had the effects studied, but it is possible that those effects will interact with some secret of the Consult or conditions in the north that he didn't forsee. 

216
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Dunyain Weakness
« on: August 09, 2016, 01:02:44 am »
Lets not get confused over how the Psuhke works and the existence of the Solitary God.  The Psuhke's work is, to the best of our knowledge, completely independent of the existence or non-existence of the Solitary God.  The Cishaurim believe that their sorcery is the Water of Indara, but Kelhous's explanation indicates that's not how their sorcery functions.   Titirga and Fane were both blind men finding sorcery, but Fane also experienced religious revelation while Titirga did not and was instead cured of his blindness and educated as a Gnostic Schoolman.  His stain is probably reduced because he has better recollection of the other angles and so his sorcery more closely resembles creation. 

217
Literature / Re: The Black Company - Glen Cook
« on: August 08, 2016, 09:53:06 pm »
The first three Black Company books and the Silver Spike are really good, and the first two books of the South are almost as good.  The rest aren't up to the rest of the series in terms of quality.  Cook's influence is absolutely clear on Erikson (who gives Cook multiple acknowledgements in his books) and present in Bakker and Martin.  Cook is the guy who brought armies of morally questionable soldiers fighting wars for even more questionable warlords to the center stage of mainstream fantasy.  In Dunyain terms, he prepared the ground for Martin.  The early books are definitely worth reading.

218
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Moenghus is a lying liar who lies
« on: August 08, 2016, 01:50:21 am »
All the evidence suggests that Kelhus is correct in his evaluation of Moenghus's strength. 

1) Moenghus admits that sending to Ishual tests his strength to the limit.  He could be lying, but he could also be telling the truth.

2) There was no teleportation involved in the Scarlet Spires assault.  Scott has confirmed that what Eli saw was the Cishaurim appearing from stealth, not them stepping across space.  That's why the Scarlet Spires responded in part by having patrols with trained dogs help secure the halls.

3) The two definite feats we've seen Moenghus perform are long range communication and incinerating a single Skin Spy.  Incinerating a single target is peanuts as far as sorcery goes in this series and long range communication is well within the capabilities for minor Schoolmen (as evidenced as Cnauir's force had a single acolyte as their long range communicator)

4) Moenghus does not instantly turn to salt when touched with a Chorae.  We know that especially powerful Quya begin to salt when close to a Chorae so the clear implication is that the more powerful the sorcerer, the more lethal the Chorae is.  And Moenghus doesn't go fast.

219
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Who attacked the Scarlet Spires and why?
« on: August 08, 2016, 01:18:25 am »
No, I hadn't.  Thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't think that the Cishaurim had translocated as part of the attack but the ambiguity of the passage meant that that it couldn't be decisively ruled out.

220
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Who attacked the Scarlet Spires and why?
« on: August 07, 2016, 11:00:24 am »
A few of my thoughts on the subject.

1) The Psukhe is a sorcerous practice based on passion, not intellect.  It is invisible precisely because of that.  Even the the more intellectual practices of sorcery has limited understanding of their own metaphysics.  The Cishaurim are going to under even less because blind faith is what makes them good sorcerers.

2) Since even the metaphysical understanding of Anagogic Sorcerers and Gnostic Schoolmen of their own practices is limited the same follows for the Cishaurim.  The do not have the Mandate's knowledge of the Consult and the Tekne.  The Scarlet Spires are known to be arrogant practitioners of unholy arts, they are from the Cishaurim's point of view, natural suspects.

3) That said the suicide strike, while not inconceivable for fanatic priest-magicians, is something we do tend to expect from those under the influence of the Dunyain.

4) Moenghus's lack of command of the water is absolutely relevant to his ability to influence the Cishaurim.  Kelhous didn't declare himself a prophet, he displayed overwhelming wisdom and insight and his followers came to believe he was a prophet.  Moenghus's weakness is going to undermine him just as failure would have undermined Kelhous.  He's still a Dunyain with the ability to manipulate people but his ability to read them by his blinding and his authority is undermined by his weakness. 

221
General Earwa / Re: Mimara's Father?
« on: August 06, 2016, 10:06:08 am »
Mimara knew where he was because Kelhous, and by extension some of the royal court, knew where he was.  The rationalization Mimara might have heard is that he was essentially under her mother's protection, but we know that Kelhous has his own reasons.  That's why Ironsoul was sent out to play Scalpoi although what Kelhous was attempting to accomplish with that gambit remains a mystery.

222
The White Luck is a contrivance, everything is  . . . . debatable.  Besides, Fate is a whore.  Use whatever name you're happy with, I just use the term from Warhammer Fantasy because its well recognized in the gamer community and its also a fantasy world where men are crushed with uncaring cruelty by forces greater than them.

223
There are no spoilers from the TGO.  All references are from the earlier books, which should be fair game as they've been out for years and this is a discussion of how to reflect Earwa in an RPG format.

224
A few thoughts from a veteran gamer

1) Chorae are more common than sorcerers.  Their are literally thousands of chorae out there but most are in the hands of caste nobles and elite archers.  They're rare, but potentially obtainable by PCs.

2) Chorae are lethal to sorcerers, but they aren't an instant win button.  Chorae didn't save the guys Akka dropped a roof on, or the guys on the walls of Shimeh when the Spires blew up the walls, and more than a few Shrial Knights died when Cishaurum scourged the earth beneath their horses' hooves.  There's going to need to be rules on indirect sorcerous attacks.  A chorae won't save you when an earth moving cant drops smacks you with a two ton boulder.

3) This world is lethal.  Sorcery blows people into smoking meat.  Spectacular badasses get stabbed in the ear and die.  Chorae turn sorcerers to salt.  Bashrags turn people to bags of stew.  Guys catch sranc javelins in the eye.  Warriors like Saubon and Cnauir slaughter their way through hardened veterans. 

The game's rules need to reflect that aspect of the world and provide some kind of protection for players as well.  Akka, after all, isn't directly struck by the sranc's chorae.  He's wounded and knocked out, but not killed.  Cnauir survives the crushing defeat inflicted on his people by the Nansur due to a very generous amount of luck.  Kelhous survives a Nonman unleashing deadly sorcery at close range when he first goes into the world.  Something like fate points would allow players to buy down their fatal bad luck to merely incapacitating incidents or narrow escapes.  That would allow the players to survive a small number of bad rolls without stacking up a massive PC body count while keeping the world dangerous to them.  And, of course, if you want to increase player fatalities one need only cut down or eliminate the fate points.

225
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: July 30, 2016, 01:10:01 pm »
Thank you Madness.  Good to see you as well.

The things to remember:

1) The Scarlet Spires had already wasted their strength blasting into Shimeh while the Fanim conserved theirs.  It's bad enough that one of the senior magi begs Eli to stop and he laughs it off and continues to push.  I'm going to repeat that because it's important:  the Scarlet Spires continues to push after one of their senior magi warns their leader that they are squandering their strength and this is before they fight a single Cishaurum.  The Scarlet Spires throw away one of their only advantages before the fight even begins.

2) The Cishaurim don't just ambush them.   The encircle them and unleash their Chorae archers as well.  Envelopement is pretty damned deadly and the Spires shield men can provide only limited protection.  The Scarlet Spires tire themselves out in the process of walking into a trap where a fresh enemy waits to spring upon them and Chorae archers can attack on all sides.  It isn't strength that wins this fight for the Cishaurum (although they clearly have a fair amount of that as well), it's tactics. 

3) It's not an impressive display of strength to overwhelm exhausted men.  Despite this, Eli is able to hold off two of the greatest Primaries and some of the Scarlet Spires survive long enough for the Men of the Tusk arrive and provide some aid.

4) Despite having wasted his strength, despite having two of the strongest Primaries gang up on him, Eli is able to fight on until finally the strongest of Cishaurum overcomes him.   You're not proving yourself stronger than a guy you don't fight until he's tired, gang up on, and then manage to beat when your buddy who was helping you drops out of the fight.  You are, however, stacking the deck in your favor.

5) No one is saying the greatest Primaries aren't really powerful or greater than many Anagogic Schoolmen, but nothing indicates that the Cishaurum as a whole are more powerful.  If they were there is no way Eli could hold out against two of the greatest Primaries after wasting so much of his strength and he's not only able to hold out, but to counter attack and fight on against their strongest when he's given a little respite by having one of those Primaries who is beating the shit out of his wards fall.  Eli's feat of endurance is exhausting in of itself.  When I was first reading the Thousandfold Thought I was thinking "Christ, all this and they still haven't managed to kill him.  Is he somehow going to live through this shit because this is hardcore?"  And just when I think he might actually Rasputin his way through his fuck up (and it's a colossal fuck up, he leads his entire School into a meatgrinder) he finally is beaten down and dies.

 There's also the small matter of having seen powerful sorcerers swiftly overwhelm weaker rivals and hold out against superior numbers of weaker enemies and Eli's performance is consistent with great strength.  It takes a long time for him to fall and a lot of hammering just as it takes a massive beatdown to overwhelm Akka.  The mercenary mage, on the other hand, doesn't last long against Eli.  That does show there's a fairly significant variation in strength between Sorcerers of Rank, consistent with having the strongest Primaries being able to outmatch many Anagogic Sorcerers one on one, but it's also shows just how strong Eli by being able to hold out against two Primaries even after squandering so much power.

5) Kelhus choses a highly mobile strategy to fight the last remaining Primaries and their supporting Chorae archers.  His ability to teleport and his lethalness in close quarters is an advantage only he possesses.  If he allows them to concentrate against him they might kill him.  If, on the other hand, he's teleporting around he's a hard target to concentrate against and he can attack his opponents by surprise.  His telekinetic rubble shield also helps protect him from Chorae archers but why would he do them of the favor of staying still and lining up shots? 

This is another example of Kelhus's intellect allowing him to make full use of his abilities.   


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