Cishaurim

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Garet Jax

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« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2014, 02:27:52 pm »
To clarify, I guess I am asking if they use an utteral when performing the Psukhe.

Wic

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« Reply #106 on: August 25, 2014, 06:32:16 pm »
Yeah, pretty sure Moe sings, glowing mouth and eyes and all, when he conjures up Skauras' face.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #107 on: August 25, 2014, 06:57:57 pm »
It is worth remembering as well that the Cish are reffered to as Concerts.

I always imagined that the Cish spoke but that was not a key component in using the Water. I always believed the Water flowed from the center of the head with the snakes acting as guides. The Ciphrang pulled the nameless Cish soul through a connection he saw to the Cish forehead IIRC. I always thought that connection to be the Water.


Garet Jax

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« Reply #108 on: August 25, 2014, 07:20:04 pm »
It is worth remembering as well that the Cish are reffered to as Concerts.

True.  But I am more interested in the verb form and the secondary noun definitions of "concert". 

-"agreement, accordance, or harmony." (secondary noun definition)

-"arrange (something) by mutual agreement or coordination." (verb definition)

I merely looked these definitions up online, so their origin could contradict my thoughts.

Thinking along the lines of them not singing, I had believed them all to just be thinking the same thing (or of the same "passion") instead of signing pre-determined words and thinking pre-determined meanings.

However, if they are noted as truly singing, then my whole question is pointless ;)

Triskele

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« Reply #109 on: August 25, 2014, 08:15:21 pm »
I am not 100% certain, but I do not believe that we have any evidence that speaking/singing is part of the Water. 

That's another Cishaurim mystery that I'd love to get more on but don't really expect to.  How do the Cishaurim train?  We have a bit of an idea on Gnostic sorcerers.  They need to learn the language and practice like hell to combine the utteral and the inutteral.  What do the Cishaurim practice or train on?   What makes the Incandati better than the Primaries better than the Tertiaries?

mrganondorf

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« Reply #110 on: August 25, 2014, 09:46:46 pm »
@ Triskele - i second that!

if they do use language, would they use the same one that another school uses or an entirely different language?

i would also like to no more of their power structure in regard to the padirajah, as it seems that they help the kianene but are independent and not commanded like soldiers, like the imperial saik

Wic

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« Reply #111 on: August 25, 2014, 09:48:23 pm »
Any group of sorcerers singing is referred to as a concert:

"Achamian could hear the other Schoolmen shouting to each other in shock and dismay.  He could feel them scramble among the queues, hasten to assemble a Concert." - TWP

Wic

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« Reply #112 on: August 25, 2014, 10:13:41 pm »
Just read through the battle at Shimeh, and it's stark how they are never referred to as singing, despite song being mentioned almost every time an SS sorcerer comes up.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #113 on: August 29, 2014, 09:57:57 pm »
I could imagine the Cishaurim just vocalizing, does that sound preposterous?

Wic

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« Reply #114 on: August 29, 2014, 11:14:47 pm »
OOOO!  I've an idea.

First, the quote from TDTCB and Mallahet:

Quote
"I have come, Emperor, so you might parlay with another."
Xerius blinked.  "Who?"
For a moment, it seemed the Nail of Heaven flashed from the Cishaurim's brow.
So, no words, no glowing of the eyes or mouth (my bad).

Gnostic and anagogic sorcery are more bound to this world (through reason and metaphor), and so require the outspoken utteral as the portal through which will is made manifest. 

BUT, the Psukhe, the passion-based sorcery, requires not an utteral and an inutteral, but a conscious inutteral and a subconscious inutteral.  A perfect fusion of feeling and thought.

Perhaps, even, it is the utteral which stains the onta.

Triskele

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« Reply #115 on: August 30, 2014, 04:59:32 am »
This could be something locke has pointed out before, but it's hard to credit Moe with being weak in the Water when his warm up for the skype session creates a light that is described by the brightest star in the sky.

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #116 on: August 30, 2014, 05:59:12 am »
I'm fairly sure that the light that emanates from Cishie foreheads is analogous to the light that comes from schoolmen's eyes/mouth.

Interesting that Kellhus' eyes are described as twin nails of heaven when he teleports into Shimeh to slaughter the Primaries.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

locke

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« Reply #117 on: August 30, 2014, 06:25:46 am »
Nope never caught this before. Hidden in plain sight.  Call them singers or choruses and no one will notice if they never actually sing.  It's actually a great cognitive trick and a classic illusion.

It's amazing how easy it is to short circuit the human brain.  Give something a name and the mass delusion is we all universally edit in information to support that name/definition subconsciously.

All typ0s courtesy of Samsung.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 06:27:43 am by locke »

The Sharmat

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« Reply #118 on: September 03, 2014, 12:05:30 am »
OOOO!  I've an idea.

First, the quote from TDTCB and Mallahet:

Quote
"I have come, Emperor, so you might parlay with another."
Xerius blinked.  "Who?"
For a moment, it seemed the Nail of Heaven flashed from the Cishaurim's brow.
So, no words, no glowing of the eyes or mouth (my bad).

Gnostic and anagogic sorcery are more bound to this world (through reason and metaphor), and so require the outspoken utteral as the portal through which will is made manifest. 

BUT, the Psukhe, the passion-based sorcery, requires not an utteral and an inutteral, but a conscious inutteral and a subconscious inutteral.  A perfect fusion of feeling and thought.

Perhaps, even, it is the utteral which stains the onta.
I like your thinking here.

Also the fact that it comes from thoughts, and the light shines from their forehead, makes me realize that the similarity in names between "Psukhe" and "Psyche" is probably deliberate.

Cishaurim=psionicist, not sorcerer.

Triskele

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« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2014, 06:46:07 pm »
Question:  do we have any evidence that Cishaurim can "feel" chorae in their presence the way that gnostic and anagogic sorcerers do?