The Therapeutic Value of Psychedelics and other drugs

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jamesA01

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« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2013, 05:53:01 pm »
Instead of another long post I'll just ask you a question Madness, what do you propose as the solution or the idea that is going to change things? I don't have any faith in fighting for change or altered perspectives. There is too much profit in drugs for anything to change. In fact what will happen is a massive intensification of the range and quantity of substances available. There will be many casualties and much psychosis, but also a lot of hard data gathered.

Also - the NoGod speaks:

Life: Chore that regularly convinces you to smoke dope instead.

I remember the bad old days when I planned a cannabis farm in my flat but pulled out at the last minute. I knew it was a dodgy set up, my roommate had this friend who was smart, he would go pitch a cannabis farm to people. He'd provide the equipment and stop by to help them grow it, and of course it wouldn't be in his house so he wouldn't have broken any laws. Crucially, he had the connect to sell large crops too. I could see his angle and realized that my roommate was too stupid and high to pull this off, so I declined.

I kicked out my roommate and he went on to start one in his new flat. He got too drunk one night and his 'mates' came in and robbed it all! Pulled off the buds and leaves and left him with a bunch of stalks.

Now when I smoke weed - I don't get high. I seriously just get a kind of dark dull depression. I smoked so much weed I went beyond cannabis psychosis to just total burn out of all THC synapses. The last time I smoked I just wandered around pissed off in a dark mood, absolutely no high off it whatsoever.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 09:47:57 pm by jamesA01 »

jamesA01

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« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2013, 11:15:46 pm »

Madness

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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2013, 04:02:01 am »
I think there can be many reasons why people turn to drugs,and not all of them are destructive.It can easily end up being destructive of course,depending on the drug of choice.

Maybe a healthy and curious attitude toward altered states? It does not have to end up being something destructive.I know people who have learned much about themselves through various drugs,and ended up being a better person because of it.Many people just want to experience as much as possible in their rather short lifespan,and various drugs provide plenty of interesting experiences.

I think you're talking about information dissemination - the most popularized rendition, to me, seems to be the organized campaign against ecstasy. Statistics don't speak highly of this and james and you have both mentioned that new, stranger drugs have been created.

We definitely need more dialogue between parents and children, educators and parents, police and students, etc.

I guess I must sound like a hypocrite in certain aspects,and I think I might be a bit hypocritical,because I do want that balance of technology and nature.

I also feel I have to point out that I am not self-sufficient at all.I am planning to set up a little greenhouse to grow vegetables in.Although ascetics fascinate me,I am not quite there yet :) It is the surroundings that are key for me.Being out here,and still be able to talk to you guys is the perfect balance I need at the moment ;)

Lol, regardless, you're on a journey. The point remains that self-sufficient individuals still can't truly escape interaction with the current global civilization.

Think of Fukushima. Everyday it become more and more obvious that we need the best human minds available, regardless of nationality, race, gender, etc., working on safely containing and disposing the mess. Japan finally accepted international aid today but it's been almost two and half years.

It doesn't matter then that we are ignorant as hermits, isolated cultures, and the uninformed plebletariot (all of us) - what we don't know about the behaviors of society can hurt us.

Instead of another long post I'll just ask you a question Madness, what do you propose as the solution or the idea that is going to change things? I don't have any faith in fighting for change or altered perspectives. There is too much profit in drugs for anything to change. In fact what will happen is a massive intensification of the range and quantity of substances available. There will be many casualties and much psychosis, but also a lot of hard data gathered.

I'm not really sure but I definitely was trying to get the group of us freestyling on the topic.

I agree with your prediction but at the same time, the consequences of drug use often arise as a result of psychosocial dynamics other than usage - production, dissemination (purchase & sale), legislation proportional to black market value, social distinctions (alcohol vs. drugs).

Life: Chore that regularly convinces you to smoke dope instead.
...

I'm glad you didn't get caught in anything. I'm wondering at what you wanted to communicate with your anecdote though.

I wanted to take the time to watch the documentary on Mexico before I posted but I couldn't tonight.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:03:59 am by Madness »
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jamesA01

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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2013, 08:09:02 pm »

I'm glad you didn't get caught in anything. I'm wondering at what you wanted to communicate with your anecdote though.

I wanted to take the time to watch the documentary on Mexico before I posted but I couldn't tonight.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I turned down the thug life to become a depressed neckbeard. I could have been Scarface, but it was unfair to pursue that path since the world would be denied the gift of my intellect.   ;)

« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 08:44:38 pm by jamesA01 »

Madness

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« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2013, 10:45:49 pm »
Lol. Meh, I've been there - modern thug life loses its alluring romantic edge ;).

Intellect is. No matter where.
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sciborg2

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« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2013, 03:10:01 pm »
Sorry to link spam, I have more to say but just feel like I need to read/think more to offer anything of value. I am enjoying the discussion though.

The Science of Choice in Addiction: Research has shown that beating addiction is ultimately about regarding addicts as people who can rationally choose.

Quote
The basic experiment goes like this. Hart recruits addicts who have no interest in quitting but who are willing to stay in a hospital research ward for two weeks for testing. Each day, Hart offers them a sample dose of either crack cocaine or methamphetamine, depending upon the drug they use regularly. Later in the day, they are given a choice between the same amount of drugs, a voucher for $5 of store merchandise, or $5 cash. They collect their reward when they’re discharged two weeks later.

More often than not, subjects choose the $5 voucher or cash over the drug, except that, when offered a higher dose, they go for the drug. But when Hart ups the value of the reward to $20, addicts chose the money every time.

Madness

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« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2013, 09:35:33 pm »
I was reading this on Westeros, Sci. I have my academic differences with the quality of research but feel free to "spam" as you like :).
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Royce

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« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2013, 10:55:07 pm »
Quote
http://www.thelocal.no/20130822/no-link-between-lsd-and-mental-problems-say-norway-researchers

LSD is good for you :) At least that is what these researchers imply.It is weird though that it takes researchers like this 50 years to catch up on what they discovered during experiments in the sixtees.

sciborg2

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« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2013, 06:14:16 pm »
Thanks for that Royce. Looks like the ability to self-medicate just took a big hit:

Feds Seize Silk Road, Everybody's Favorite Illegal Drug Website

Royce

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« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2013, 12:30:42 pm »
Here is something which is actually related to the tread :)

The NYU Training Program for Psychedelic Psychotherapy- Jeffrey Guss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LhL-jTg8KoY#t=15

sciborg2

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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 04:43:05 pm »
Good stuff Royce. I've been on a mini vacation chilling with my cousin who does a lot of work with medicine plants.

Some great conversations related to this topic, will try to distill and [at] some point.

I think one of the pertinent things we discussed was separating the recreational and medicinal, and how to take this understanding in older cultures and bring it into a modern, legalistic + healthcare framework.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 04:53:17 pm by sciborg2 »

Royce

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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2013, 08:02:16 am »
There are lots of great videos regarding this on the tube.There is a channel called "maps",where you get many interesting talks about the therapeutic value of various drugs.

jamesA01

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Royce

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« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2013, 05:42:30 pm »
That your brain is making you believe you have gained some "inner truth" might be true. Does it matter though? If we are all deceived anyway, why not pick a delusion that hurts no one, and can make you less aggressive and hostile towards others.

sciborg2

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« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2013, 06:10:25 pm »
That your brain is making you believe you have gained some "inner truth" might be true. Does it matter though? If we are all deceived anyway, why not pick a delusion that hurts no one, and can make you less aggressive and hostile towards others.

I think Bakker gets into this very question with the Dunyain. If all is deception, why does one deception matter more than another? Why does truth matter...is there meaning in a deluding life?

Well, what if meaning itself is an illusion?

I look at people finding grand truths in drug use the same way I look at people still working on philosophical justifications for dualism - if nothing is true then Truth itself is a questionable goal so let these people indulge themselves.

Not to mention the possibility that people do find Truth via drugs or dualism.