The Second Apocalypse

General => News/Announcements => Topic started by: Phallus Pendulus on December 16, 2013, 11:56:04 am

Title: More Subforums
Post by: Phallus Pendulus on December 16, 2013, 11:56:04 am
Am I the only who would like more subforums, or at least a reorganization of the ones we have?

I'm talking mostly about "Misc Chatter". It's far too wide, and feels like a mess cause it spans so many different topics. At least, the Eärwa questions and the philosophy/science threads shouldn't be lumped together in "Misc Chatter". When I look at the home page, I'd like to see the newest posts in philosophy/science without having to go into sub-sub-subforums.

(The otherwise-shitty westeros.org at least has a "Gen Chat" subforum totally separate from the ASOIAF-related topics. Madness could do the same thing here.)
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on December 16, 2013, 12:49:31 pm
Lol - is it wrong that I expected this post to be satirical?

To be fair, you're actually the first person I've read with a desire for more subforums on the main page.

I'm sure the spreading out of "Gen. Chat" is easily done but for my vote they'd be moved to the bottom of the categories (under Other or something)...

However, I do what I can to reflect communal consensus. I'd like to see a couple more forumers chime in here. Especially, on the topic of theme within Misc. Chatter because on Second Apocalypse 1.0, I'd (as one member among others) advocated for no Earwa topics in Misc. Obviously, the community decided otherwise.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Royce on December 16, 2013, 01:30:46 pm
Lol, I think it is fine as it is. I spend most of my time in "misc" and have never thought that it needs to be improved.

whether new posts are one click away or two, does not make my blood boil with rage. Lazy yes, but not that lazy.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on December 20, 2013, 09:00:47 pm
Wish I could have weighed in earlier, though a whole 4 days isn't so late. I've been working 16 hours days so I haven't had the time to check my favorite site.

Anyway, Misc Chatter has 5 subforums already, which seems like plenty to me. However, it might still make sense to reorganize it. Really all the subforums under that are non-Earwa threads except for the base one. Of course it would be nice to get more than 4 or 5 opinions though :P.

I wouldn't be opposed to naming the base Misc Chatter to something more Earwa-related, but keeping the rest of the subforums lumped together like that.

I'd skeptical about adding too many subforums in general though. We don't want to scare people from posting because by making it frustrating to figure out which forum is best to place their thoughts. There should certainly be a kind of "catch-all" forum, and keeping it Earwa-free would be fine with me.



What about:
1) Moving Philosophy & Science, The Forum of Interesting Things , Writing, Literature , and RPG Discussion down to the bottom of the page, call it the General Discussion forum, and make it's header something like "Other topics(Non-Earwa)", and

2) Move Misc. Chatter out of "general discussion", with no subforums, and moving it down to Earwa underneath Atrocity Tales. This can remain the "catch-all" Earwa thread that it is now, but it will still have the effect your looking for.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Aural on March 07, 2014, 11:59:16 pm
What about:
1) Moving Philosophy & Science, The Forum of Interesting Things , Writing, Literature , and RPG Discussion down to the bottom of the page, call it the General Discussion forum, and make it's header something like "Other topics(Non-Earwa)", and

2) Move Misc. Chatter out of "general discussion", with no subforums, and moving it down to Earwa underneath Atrocity Tales. This can remain the "catch-all" Earwa thread that it is now, but it will still have the effect your looking for.

I don't know if anyone cares for what I have to say at this point but I'll just note that I support this idea. I still find it a bit strange for general Eärwa talk to be lumped in with other Misc. topics under one forum, and I assume some newcomers have as well.

It would be better IMHO to have a 'General Earwa' forum (with no subs) at the top of the Earwa talk as you've outlined in point no. 2, which is similar btw to what the Westeros people have done with their ASOIAF board.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 08, 2014, 01:06:56 am
I appreciate.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 10, 2014, 07:33:38 pm
I don't know if anyone cares for what I have to say at this point but I'll just note that I support this idea. I still find it a bit strange for general Eärwa talk to be lumped in with other Misc. topics under one forum, and I assume some newcomers have as well.

It would be better IMHO to have a 'General Earwa' forum (with no subs) at the top of the Earwa talk as you've outlined in point no. 2, which is similar btw to what the Westeros people have done with their ASOIAF board.

Thanks for the input.  If more people put out their thoughts we'd be able to more quickly gauge interest and change accordingly. Madness, myself, and a handful of others get stuck with trying to figure out what the other 150 forumers are thinking, and I doubt we do a particularly good job.

Looks like so far we have 2 votes for change, 1 vote no, Madness abstaining until further interest is showed, and myself on the fence put leaning towards new forum/sub forum is we get some more votes.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 10, 2014, 11:31:53 pm
I'm actually thinking about going with you and Nskoghar...

It wouldn't take more than a couple minutes to clean up Misc. Chatter and make a General Earwa subforum in Earwa.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Alia on March 11, 2014, 04:03:49 pm
I also think "General Earwa" subforum is a very good idea.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 11, 2014, 05:54:17 pm
Wow another vote! This is exciting.

Alright so this is what I came up with as a proposed change:

General
-> News/Announcements
->->Introduce Yourself

Earwa
->The Aspect-Emperor
->-> [subforums remain the same]
->The Prince of Nothing
->->[subforums remain the same]
->Atrocity Tales
->Misc Chatter


[Insert Title]
->The Forum of Interesting Things
->-> Philosophy & Science
->-> Writing
->->Literature
->-> RPG Discussion


Other Titles
[unchanged]

* [->]  main forum
**[->->] subforum

Notes:
The current non-earwa misc. chatter threads get more usage than the Other titles so it should be above that section.

We might consider renaming Misc. Chatter to something else that points more specifically to Earwa. This would allow us to then name the new forum "Misc. Chatter" and remove confusion.

I think "The forum of interesting things" is a good name for the main topic in the new section, and the rest be it's subforums.

One final thought, if The Almanac gets large enough, we might need to make that its own topic as well, and each book could be a sub forum. However, this irrelevant right now as it only has 1 book in it.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: MrGanondorf on March 11, 2014, 06:04:58 pm
I second it, Wilshire!
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 12, 2014, 12:25:29 am
Wow another vote! This is exciting.

Lol. +1.

Earwa
->The Aspect-Emperor
->-> [subforums remain the same]
->The Prince of Nothing
->->[subforums remain the same]
->Atrocity Tales
->Misc Chatter

Alternatively:

Earwa
General Earwa
The Rest As Is

[Insert Title]
->The Forum of Interesting Things
->-> Philosophy & Science
->-> Writing
->->Literature
->-> RPG Discussion

I definitely named and described The Forum of Interesting Things wrong. That subforum specifically was supposed to be for all the links people put on TPB comments. I have collected over six hundred of them and that doesn't include most of '13 since.

But we can definitely move the Subforums of General to the bottom of the page as Wilshire's suggested.

Other Titles
[unchanged]

I would still vote to keep this above the EDIT: General Subforums.

Notes:
The current non-earwa misc. chatter threads get more usage than the Other titles so it should be above that section.

We might consider renaming Misc. Chatter to something else that points more specifically to Earwa. This would allow us to then name the new forum "Misc. Chatter" and remove confusion.

Misc. Chatter could stay the same without the added "wild west" description of Earwa spoilers. "General Earwa" would become the new thread for the active Earwa topics in Misc. now.

One final thought, if The Almanac gets large enough, we might need to make that its own topic as well, and each book could be a sub forum. However, this irrelevant right now as it only has 1 book in it.

This would become a thing if persons other than I started the next chapter topic ;). We only have one more chapter for TDTCB (to be honest, I'm probably going to take the time to post this and maybe TWP Ch.1 as soon as possible)...
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 12, 2014, 12:47:06 pm
Round 2:

General
-> News/Announcements
->->Introduce Yourself

Earwa
->General Discussion [All of the Earwa related discussions from Misc. Chatter]
->The Aspect-Emperor
->-> [subforums remain the same]
->The Prince of Nothing
->->[subforums remain the same]
->Atrocity Tales


/b/  [working title :P]
->Misc. Chatter
->->The Forum of Interesting Things
->-> Philosophy & Science
->-> Writing
->->Literature
->-> RPG Discussion


Other Titles
[unchanged]

* [->]  main forum
**[->->] subforum


Notes:
I don't know that I agree with Madness on moving Misc. Chatter below Other Titles. I think if we make it as 1 main forum and a bunch of subs, it might be too easy to miss down at the bottom of the page. I would either prefer to have it above Other Titles as 1 main + subs, or moving it under Other Titles but Having multiple Mains (1 for each sub we currently have, or some other combination).


Quote
This would become a thing if persons other than I started the next chapter topic ;)

Took some notes on Chapter 1 TWP. I'll post when I'm done. Too late for me to go back to TDTCB though.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 12, 2014, 02:24:31 pm
Lol - well then, Senhor, I counter with renaming Earwa and including the other titles under the changed headings.

You won't convince me that random conversation is more important for people to read about than all of the books themselves :P.

But I bow to the community, obviously.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 12, 2014, 02:50:00 pm
Its less about importance and more about ease of access. My two options remain as they are.


Guess we'll just have to wait for someone else to weigh in.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Somnambulist on March 12, 2014, 03:09:57 pm
Its less about importance and more about ease of access. My two options remain as they are.


Guess we'll just have to wait for someone else to weigh in.

My internal logic preferences aside, I think Wilshire's order for the Earwa category is more user-friendly, but I admit some difficulty in committing.  How's that for a non-opinion?  I can argue myself, from both sides, into respective corners.  I should just delete this...
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 12, 2014, 03:15:47 pm
I would also not be upset with either option, but then again I don't really participate in many of those threads. Each side needs a champion I guess. I imagine that if no one really cares then I'll force Madness to decide :P, but we'll give it plenty of time before we do so.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Srancy on March 12, 2014, 08:17:28 pm
I would like a General Discussion board
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 11:54:31 am
Its less about importance and more about ease of access. My two options remain as they are.


Guess we'll just have to wait for someone else to weigh in.

I think Wilshire's order for the Earwa category is more user-friendly, but I admit some difficulty in committing.

Can either of you explain this to me? I am the worst gauge of this ease of access consideration as I've totally grown up with computers. I miss far fewer topics than most, respond prolifically everywhere on the forum (when I have time). It wouldn't matter where the busy threads were located on the main page (main forum, subforum, up, down, left, right, etc), I don't usually have trouble attending to them...

And again, I need to see serious rebuttal to the fact that, because "ease of access" somehow means that those threads oriented at the top of the page will get the most traffic, we assume that Bakker book threads shouldn't get higher priority on this "ease of access" hierarchy than the other threads that happen here unrelated to the author or his works?

:P
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 01:06:17 pm
Going to have to skip the discussion on ease of access. I never have a problem.

If it really hurts your brain to have general chat above Other Titles then we can move it below, idc. It really is just a matter of using the scroll wheel, so nbd. However, based on how long it took some to discover the Quorum, I'd say for whatever reason things get lost even on the home page. If we move something underneath Other Titles people might easily miss an extra board if it only has 1 main topic. I think if we break it up into its own forums rather than a bunch of subs it will be harder to miss.

I just dont want to change things and have a bunch of topics, that are actively being participated in, fall off the grid because dead boards where given "priority". It probably doesn't matter much either way. Since everyone is on the fence (who has voiced an opinion), I'd be happy to defer.

Site thought: Does a democracy become a dictatorship is no one votes?

Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 02:16:09 pm
Site thought: Does a democracy become a dictatorship is no one votes?

Since you are stepping into the role so nicely, do we together make one dictator?

If we move something underneath Other Titles people might easily miss an extra board if it only has 1 main topic. I think if we break it up into its own forums rather than a bunch of subs it will be harder to miss.

I just dont want to change things and have a bunch of topics, that are actively being participated in, fall off the grid because dead boards where given "priority". It probably doesn't matter much either way. Since everyone is on the fence (who has voiced an opinion), I'd be happy to defer.

I actually think since Misc. Chatter and its subforums in General are the most active on the site that they will suffer least from being moved to the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Somnambulist on March 13, 2014, 02:26:48 pm
No rebuttal here, but I'll attempt to validate my reasoning.  So, Earwa>General Discussion is a very broad grouping, whereas the Series>Book>Topic format is, by its very nature, more specific, followed by the even more specific Atrocity Tales.  I like to work from broad strokes down to fine details, and this structure fits that mechanic.  Obviously, that's just my preference, so when I called it 'user-friendly' it was more about my user-friendliness, which is what was being asked initially (I think).  So, just my biased opinion.

If we're more talking about logical order, then I agree with Madness.  It absolutely should be the books first, followed by AT, followed by General.

I'm no student of the psychological effects of particular ways to present information, and getting the best benefit from that (i.e., user-friendly).  Either way appeals to some part of my own personal logic mechanisms.

I'm as dissatisfied with my answer as I'm sure anyone who reads this is.  Apologies.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 02:33:59 pm
Lol, Somnambulist, you missed some of the subtleties of mine and Wilshire's back and forth.

So the proposed order.

General
News/Announcements
-Introduce Yourself

Earwa
General Earwa
Trilogy divisions as they are now
- Book divisions as they are now
Atrocity Tales

----

And then the point of further contention between us ;):

Other titles
- Book subforums as they are now

Misc. Chatter
- Subforums from Misc. Chatter as they are now

OR

Misc. Chatter

Other titles

The bold represent the collapsible categories separating the forums.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Somnambulist on March 13, 2014, 03:00:04 pm
lol walking away.  I'm absolutely not bringing anything to the table here, so I'm more than happy with whatever you decide.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 03:10:13 pm
Lol - I wonder if when Wilshire and I settle on a decision, I change things, that we get even more feedback then than we do now...
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 03:31:25 pm
Quote
I actually think since Misc. Chatter and its subforums in General are the most active on the site that they will suffer least from being moved to the bottom of the page.

This is a valid point.

Quote
Since you are stepping into the role so nicely, do we together make one dictator?

Probably. But doesn't that make it an oligarchy?


With such low participation its hard to feel bad for them ;).  I'm sure if we royally screw up then we'll get some more feedback.

Do you at least agree that splitting up the current Misc. Chatter into its own forums is an OK idea?
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 03:37:11 pm
Lol - oligarchy.

Yeah, I agree completely that Misc. be split. We're literally debating the one OR point above ;).
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 03:47:21 pm
Lol k just making sure we are debating the same point.

I relent. Move misc. chatter under Other Titles, but we can wait for more votes to be cast.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 13, 2014, 03:50:22 pm
:). I will wait 24 more hours. Then I await the inevitable criticisms ;).

Also, should we call it Misc. Chatter?
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 04:01:38 pm
So many decisions! ... Sure why not? Maybe spell it out? Not like we are confined for space.

If I had a clever title for that section I would have suggested it long ago.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: MrGanondorf on March 13, 2014, 04:07:25 pm
I think I support Wilshire's second proposal but I am not sure why.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 04:08:31 pm
lol which one is that?
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Aural on March 13, 2014, 04:17:31 pm
My two cents, keep everything as it is but add the 'General Earwa' section to the top of Earwa. And since this is going to include discussion and spoilers for all published works (including Atrocity Tales), you might wanna get rid of the Atrocity Tale forum since it only has a few threads and a whole forum for two short stories seems too much to be honest.

So,

General
News/Announcements
-- Introduce Yourself
Misc. Chatter
-- Subs as they are.

Earwa
General (Earwa)
Trilogy divisions as they are now
-- Book divisions as they are now

Other titles
-- Book subforums as they are now

Or if you don't care for any of that I support the order that Madness suggested of having 'Other titles' below the Earwa section. Just makes more sense to me to have Bakker's works following each other.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 13, 2014, 04:24:55 pm
I think those stores deserve their own forum, especially since there might[/] be more to come. Maybe move Atrocity Tales down to Other Titles? I think its description matches up with some of the other ones in that forum.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 14, 2014, 05:44:47 pm
It is done.

Let me (or Wilshire) know if anything in General Misc. belongs in General Earwa or vice versa.
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: MrGanondorf on March 19, 2014, 12:52:52 pm
Like it!  :)
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Wilshire on March 19, 2014, 01:28:45 pm
Like it!  :)

Approval! Thanks :)
Title: Re: More Subforums
Post by: Madness on March 20, 2014, 10:39:02 am
Thanks, MG.