The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Great Ordeal => Topic started by: Madness on July 28, 2016, 11:11:34 pm

Title: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on July 28, 2016, 11:11:34 pm
Previous thread here (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1793.0).

In addition to what's in the thread, what is Kellhus' goal with Ciphrang-Malowebi? It's going to be crazy awesome to read about a sorcerer with no compunction about using his sorcery for violence. Does a Ciphrang's skill-set just max out in possessing a sorcerer?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: JRControl on July 29, 2016, 12:03:10 am
I hope we finally meet Likaro. After hearing so much about a guy...

Skill set? Hmm...I'd wager they are more powerful when incarnated into the world through Daimotic sorcery, but they probably desire possession more, because then they are riding the soul which is what they enjoy most right?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Cosi on July 29, 2016, 12:31:51 am
I really hope there's enough Malowebi left in there for him to take some kind of especially petty revenge on Likaro when he goes on his rampage.

Possession is probably "desirable" (I put that in quotes because I think Ciphrang are probably happiest just staying the Outside) because it's less painful than being incarnated. If Ciphrang are souls of particularly "strong" mortals, it's also possible possession allows them to experience the pleasures of life.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on July 29, 2016, 03:50:33 pm
I hope we finally meet Likaro. After hearing so much about a guy...

Right? And since it was apparently Likaro's connivings at Court that got Malowebi stuck with the Fanim in the first place.

Skill set? Hmm...I'd wager they are more powerful when incarnated into the world through Daimotic sorcery, but they probably desire possession more, because then they are riding the soul which is what they enjoy most right?

Possession is probably "desirable" (I put that in quotes because I think Ciphrang are probably happiest just staying the Outside) because it's less painful than being incarnated. If Ciphrang are souls of particularly "strong" mortals, it's also possible possession allows them to experience the pleasures of life.

Well, Malowebi actually addresses some historical precedent for Ciphrang possession; quoted from Ciphrang Throughout History (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=909.0):

Quote from: WLW, p592
If he were a demon, then Zeum should arm for immediate war, now, before he achieved his immediate goals, for demons were simply Hungers from the abyss, insatiable in their pursuit of destruction.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Triskele on July 30, 2016, 03:23:27 am
Likaro is so fucked.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: themerchant on July 30, 2016, 02:37:36 pm
Hey we just have one persons word Likaro is an asshole :)
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on July 30, 2016, 04:40:52 pm
Hey we just have one persons word Likaro is an asshole :)

Lol, @themerchant. So you think he might not be? I'd say demon head Malowebi is gonna put and end to him either way.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on July 31, 2016, 02:46:21 pm
I don't know. Malowebi - pre-beheading - was quick-minded and seemed to figure things out fairly sharpish (like how fucked he was all round). He did make Likaro his rule of thumb as per what not to do and think... then again Malowebi was Second Negotiant for a reason ;).
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Onrack on July 31, 2016, 10:11:08 pm
I admit to a bit of confusion with that last Malowebi POV. So the Kellman cuts off his head, and puts a demon one it's place, which then starts looking like Malowebi? I didn't think you had to behead someone to possess the body. And why would Malowebi's body have sorcerous power without his head and the knowledge that comes with?

Also, did Zsoronga die last book, and I just completely forgot about it? No real mention of him in the book that I can recall. I was also a tad disappointed that we didn't get another check in on those two grunts at the beginning of the first Aorsi chapter, was nice to get their perspective. Though given how deranged the Ordeal became, perhaps it was a blessing to not get more of their PoV.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 01, 2016, 02:14:00 am
Now, I haven't got that far in my reread, but I thought we get a POV from Malowebi's decapitated head.......ergo he is destined to watch someway, somehow. In a way that has nothing to do with his body and the fused head of the decapitant.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 01, 2016, 07:31:57 pm
I admit to a bit of confusion with that last Malowebi POV. So the Kellman cuts off his head, and puts a demon one it's place, which then starts looking like Malowebi? I didn't think you had to behead someone to possess the body. And why would Malowebi's body have sorcerous power without his head and the knowledge that comes with?

The Nonman Embassy implies that when visiting the Outside substitutions can happen. But I'm not totally convinced that anyone has tried what Kellhus is doing with Ciphrang-Malowebi. And, not that I'm convinced myself, many readers have suggested that the heart is the seat of the soul in Earwa, rather than the brain.

Also, did Zsoronga die last book, and I just completely forgot about it? No real mention of him in the book that I can recall. I was also a tad disappointed that we didn't get another check in on those two grunts at the beginning of the first Aorsi chapter, was nice to get their perspective. Though given how deranged the Ordeal became, perhaps it was a blessing to not get more of their PoV.

He didn't die in WLW and no mention of him in TGO. Sarl & Captain-Beard, neither (Gollum analogue, I'm sure). Zsoronga does belong to the "line of Nganka'kull" (sp?), which Ciprang-Malowebi is ostensibly supposed to  "end" and he has Sorweel's secret Chorae pouch... so I assume Sorweel will rejoin the Ordeal and probably be as horrified as the Nonmen at the state of the Ordeal and his friend, Zsoronga.

While a major portion of the Ordeal seem to succumb to the Meat, less than half the Ordeal seem to be Scalded - I can never remember the odd notations but there should at least be some citations in TGO or at the end of WLW regarding how many Ordealmen reconvene after Ursulor. With Kellhus' admonition to flee, he seems to sacrifice only the forty-eight Knights of the Desert Lion, a good number of Swayal likely, and then only those Ordealmen and Schoolmen closest to Sibuwal Vaka's lead - he and his Sons of Cepalor are the nearest of the Ordeal when Dagliash blows.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Onrack on August 01, 2016, 07:42:28 pm
The Nonman Embassy implies that when visiting the Outside substitutions can happen. But I'm not totally convinced that anyone has tried what Kellhus is doing with Ciphrang-Malowebi. And, not that I'm convinced myself, many readers have suggested that the heart is the seat of the soul in Earwa, rather than the brain.
Hmm, makes sense I suppose. Though it seems a bit odd to me that there would even be a seat of the soul. Wouldn't Mimara notice or menion something along those lines when looking with the Judging Eye?

Quote
He didn't die in WLW and no mention of him in TGO. Sarl & Captain-Beard, neither (Gollum analogue, I'm sure). Zsoronga does belong to the "line of Nganka'kull" (sp?), which Ciprang-Malowebi is ostensibly supposed to  "end" and he has Sorweel's secret Chorae pouch... so I assume Sorweel will rejoin the Ordeal and probably be as horrified as the Nonmen at the state of the Ordeal and his friend, Zsoronga.

While a major portion of the Ordeal seem to succumb to the Meat, less than half the Ordeal seem to be Scalded - I can never remember the odd notations but there should at least be some citations in TGO or at the end of WLW regarding how many Ordealmen reconvene after Ursulor. With Kellhus' admonition to flee, he seems to sacrifice only the forty-eight Knights of the Desert Lion, a good number of Swayal likely, and then only those Ordealmen and Schoolmen closest to Sibuwal Vaka's lead - he and his Sons of Cepalor are the nearest of the Ordeal when Dagliash blows.
That would be a fairly effective reveal if that's the direction Bakker goes. Reminds me of Reek from ASOIAF. Does seem odd that there wasn't a mention though, just to remind us of his existence. I wonder if the Ciphrang hybrid could have the power to get to Zsoronga, it's quite the distance.

I'm not exactly sure, but the figure of 150,000 seems stuck in my mind for the Ordeal at Ursulor. And 20,000 having been scalded? Wish I had my copy at hand.

[EDIT Madness: For quote tags.]
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 01, 2016, 07:55:29 pm
That would be a fairly effective reveal if that's the direction Bakker goes. Reminds me of Reek from ASOIAF. Does seem odd that there wasn't a mention though, just to remind us of his existence. I wonder if the Ciphrang hybrid could have the power to get to Zsoronga, it's quite the distance.

I'm not exactly sure, but the figure of 150,000 seems stuck in my mind for the Ordeal at Ursulor. And 20,000 having been scalded? Wish I had my copy at hand.

Yeah, I wish Proyas had mentioned Zsoronga in Kayutas' entourage or something.

Reek - that's an interesting analogy. Maybe Zsoronga will be majorly depraved.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Mandos on August 03, 2016, 04:18:23 am
So, I was in the process re-reading TGO, when I noticed a continuity error with Malowebi's beheading and Kellhus' description. Perhaps it' just an oversight and/or result of literary ploy of switching character viewpoints, or maybe there's something else going on... Put on your tinfoil hats!

My page numbers are from US Hardcover edition, in case it's different in other countries. Bold is my emphasis.

Chapter 16 - Momemn, starting on page 419, we switch between Kelmomas', Malowebi's and Esmenet's POVs.

Page 451, end of Malowebi's section:
Quote
"What?" the Mbimayu Schoolman gasped. "What ... are ... you?"
The man reached for the pommel jutting above his shoulder. Enshoiya flashed in the embattled light ....
"Weary," the grim visage replied
The famed sword fell.

Next comes Kel's short section, as he continues to follow Issiral/WLW through the ruined palace. POV switches to Esmenet, who also follows Issiral/WLW to the throne room, where she find Kellhus on Page 455:
Quote
She knew him instantly, but a more stubborn fraction of her soul elected to believe he was Issiral. His every step proved an insult to this pretense, the discs of gold about his hands and face, the Decapitants bound to his girdle, the flaxen beard and mane, the looming stature...

Next comes a small WLW section in all italics, everything-already-happened style. Followed by longer Kel's section, where his cry breaks the pre-ordained murder of Aspect-Emperor. Followed by chapter's last, Malowebi's POV, on page 461:
Quote
Casting his blade into the carpeted earth, the Aspect-Emperor seized one of the Decapitants, wrenched diabolical trophy from his girdle, then raised horror to the welling stump of his neck ...

There's clearly a continuity error, the way these sections appear in Chapter 16. We get Malowebi getting beheaded by Kellhus, then Kellhus coming to throne room of the palace and avoiding WLW's pre-ordained assassination, and chapter ends with Malowebi-Ciphrang fusion. On one hand we can dismiss it, as part of a literary ploy of switching different POVs. Of course, Kellhus fused Malowebi with Ciphrang head first, then he went to the throne room. But, when Esmenet find Kellhus in throne room, he still has "Decapitants bound to his girdle" - multiple, as in two, like he always does, when it should be one... So what's going on here? We can also dismiss this as an error - Kellhus is always described as having "Decapitants bound to his girdle", so perhaps it was a simple oversight on the part of the author. Or could it be something else... Are the two scenes in fact happening at the same time? One in throne room, and one in Fanim camp? Are there two of Kellhus? Is he splitting himself? Am I just reading too much into it, and spinnig tinfoil hat theories?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 04, 2016, 02:58:29 am
@Mandos, I noticed the same thing. I believe it's just going back and forth between the two POV's.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 04, 2016, 04:46:17 pm
So, I was in the process re-reading TGO, when I noticed a continuity error with Malowebi's beheading and Kellhus' description. Perhaps it' just an oversight and/or result of literary ploy of switching character viewpoints, or maybe there's something else going on... Put on your tinfoil hats!

This was brought up in a couple of TGO ARC threads, Mandos.

I'm fairly sure it's just an error in editing but I've never heard anything from TMH on the subject.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: themerchant on August 04, 2016, 06:53:37 pm
Well i have a theory there are two kellhus kicking about.

I was going to explain it all with textual references on the podcast but nobody showed up.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: H on August 04, 2016, 07:16:54 pm
Well i have a theory there are two kellhus kicking about.

I was going to explain it all with textual references on the podcast but nobody showed up.

Well, bifurcated-Kellhus is better than time-traveling Kellhus, at least.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 04, 2016, 09:43:10 pm
Well i have a theory there are two kellhus kicking about.

I was going to explain it all with textual references on the podcast but nobody showed up.

Here is as good a place as any, I'd love to hear it.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 06, 2016, 05:51:01 pm
Well i have a theory there are two kellhus kicking about.

I was going to explain it all with textual references on the podcast but nobody showed up.

Here is as good a place as any, I'd love to hear it.

Indeed ;).
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MG on August 06, 2016, 10:14:12 pm
@ Madness - "Does a Ciphrang's skill-set just max out in possessing a sorcerer?"  I wonder if this will be something that will give away his demonness--Malowebi comes back and does socrcery without totems or something.


@ JRControl - Hey JRC!  Nice to meet you!  Ha!  Likaro is fucked, yeah! 


@ Cosi - Hello Cosi!  Glad you are here!  I wonder if possession mutes all the pain that the ciphrang experienced at Shimeh?  It could be that being embodied is like being well connected to the Outside?


@ themerchant - I guess you're right, it could be that Malowebi is the asshole!  Maybe in TUC the POV for Zeum chapters will be Likaro!  He's always going on about that asshole Malowebi.  "That's just like Malowebi.  We send him to Fanayal and the next thing you know the Fanayal's dead, his uprising is crushed, and Malowebi comes back as demon!  Negotiation isn't just about bedding slave-boys Mal!"

Two Kellhuses?  TWINS???  That would be interesting!


@ Onrack - Hi!  So many new people! :)  Makes you wonder where that second head is going to go?  Esmi?  Lil Moenghus?  Issiral?  A Consult Nonman?


@ MSJ - I totally think that that's what's going to happen.  I bet part of the magic is that Kellhus hangs Malowebi's head from his girdle and Malowebi becomes the human POV that watches the conversation between Kellhus and Aurax at the end of TUC.  Also, I bet Malowebi's head changes to look like the decapitant's and we find out that the other decapitant is ALREADY IN PLAY.  Conversations between Malowebi and Kosoter???  Maybe Sarl's got Kellhus' other decapitant hanging from his beard :)


@ Mandos - Hi!  Cool name!  Was just responding to MSJ--I think Malowebi's head takes the appearance and place of the decapitant in play


Also got to wonder if Kellhus is really limited to just 2.  I could see Bakker misdirecting us--Kellhus has as many of these goddamn fuckers as he wants but lets on that it's just two. 

I wonder if one of the two decapitants is the Son that told Kellhus "The living should not haunt the dead"?  That guy seemed like a king-ciphrang

I wonder what would happen if Kellhus lopped off Cnauir's head and replaced it with a decapitant?  Double Ciphrang?

From Malowebi's previous comments, Zeumi sorcerers have some experience in dealing with ciphrang possessed individuals.  Does Kellhus intend Ciphrang-Malowebi to fail?  Provocation to absolutely pit Zeum against the New Empire?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 06, 2016, 11:28:00 pm
Ahhhhh, I've missed you, MG! So nice to have your speculation.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MG on August 07, 2016, 02:42:00 am
Ahhhhh, I've missed you, MG! So nice to have your speculation.

Cheers MSJ!  Hope to be posting more!

Say--Madness!  I may never end up being a nurse, but maybe I've earned Nernadel-something for custom title?  :P
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: themerchant on August 07, 2016, 04:13:34 pm
I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

I will say that Malowbi sees and notices Kellhus's halo's twice. Once markless (as people have noted) and once "Golden discs shimmered about a head and hands noxious for their mark"

Now it could be shit editing and meant to read noxious for their lack of mark, but his mark is described in similar fashion earlier.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Dont Skald Me Bro on August 07, 2016, 08:50:42 pm
Likaro is so fucked.

 
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 07, 2016, 09:09:25 pm
I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

I will say that Malowbi sees and notices Kellhus's halo's twice. Once markless (as people have noted) and once "Golden discs shimmered about a head and hands noxious for their mark"

Now it could be shit editing and meant to read noxious for their lack of mark, but his mark is described in similar fashion earlier.

I seen that I was finishing up my reread, definitely interesting. I kind of thought that Kellhus's Mark is so deep it makes his HANDS look noxious in contrast to the Golden Discs. Though admitdly, that could be me just rationalizing.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: themerchant on August 07, 2016, 10:34:39 pm
I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

I will say that Malowbi sees and notices Kellhus's halo's twice. Once markless (as people have noted) and once "Golden discs shimmered about a head and hands noxious for their mark"

Now it could be shit editing and meant to read noxious for their lack of mark, but his mark is described in similar fashion earlier.

I seen that I was finishing up my reread, definitely interesting. I kind of thought that Kellhus's Mark is so deep it makes his HANDS look noxious in contrast to the Golden Discs. Though admitdly, that could be me just rationalizing.

Aye probably is that. It is a bit ambiguous in my reading though.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 08, 2016, 12:05:10 am
Ahhhhh, I've missed you, MG! So nice to have your speculation.

+1

Say--Madness!  I may never end up being a nurse, but maybe I've earned Nernadel-something for custom title?  :P

We had a new one for you and Camlost at Ishoiya... but good luck picking it out of my drunken feverish memory.

But yeah, let me know.

I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

Best do ;).

I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

I will say that Malowbi sees and notices Kellhus's halo's twice. Once markless (as people have noted) and once "Golden discs shimmered about a head and hands noxious for their mark"

Now it could be shit editing and meant to read noxious for their lack of mark, but his mark is described in similar fashion earlier.

I seen that I was finishing up my reread, definitely interesting. I kind of thought that Kellhus's Mark is so deep it makes his HANDS look noxious in contrast to the Golden Discs. Though admitdly, that could be me just rationalizing.

Aye probably is that. It is a bit ambiguous in my reading though.

Or poor editing :(.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MG on August 09, 2016, 04:45:26 pm
I'll recount the theory on the next podcast.

I will say that Malowbi sees and notices Kellhus's halo's twice. Once markless (as people have noted) and once "Golden discs shimmered about a head and hands noxious for their mark"

Now it could be shit editing and meant to read noxious for their lack of mark, but his mark is described in similar fashion earlier.

I seen that I was finishing up my reread, definitely interesting. I kind of thought that Kellhus's Mark is so deep it makes his HANDS look noxious in contrast to the Golden Discs. Though admitdly, that could be me just rationalizing.

NICE CONTRAST!  What if Mimara sees Kellhus and he is somehow both truly holy and truly cursed simultaneously?  With multiple gods I guess that is possible.  Maybe he is deliberately creating himself as a contradition that the gods cannot understand.  Here's the forumula: become super-damned by meta-gnosis + become metaphysically exalted by convincing millions to believe you are divine = gods so confused they lose some control, Kellhus can foresee their WLW and plan around it (like if the scene where Kellhus took a sword to the neck was just what Kellhus imagined would happen and never really did) or he can run back the clock a little bit when it suits him.  He's got to a point where the forking no longer matters to him; he can go back to the live branch if he finds himself on the dead one.

@ Madness :)
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 09, 2016, 06:36:38 pm
We'll I think that's true MG, he is both harvesting the fields and looking for a way to stop damnation. The ultimate long con if there ever was one.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 10, 2016, 03:58:20 pm
Hilarious how intertwined these threads get.

Continuing off-topic, Moenghus tells Kellhus the God sleeps their task is to awaken him. And Kellhus' TWP vision has apparently been trying to convince Kellhus to burn the fields in order to awaken the the God.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Walter on August 15, 2016, 08:28:58 pm
Curse Likaro!
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on August 16, 2016, 12:21:16 am
I've always been under the impression that Demon-Malowebi would have the body of Malowebi and the head/face of a Ciphrang (decapitant). Though on reread I noticed this passage.

Quote
The abomination raised his hands, held them about the sorcerous turmoil of its face, the knitting of his blood to its blasted meat and skin. Malowebi screamed for watching Malowebi reborn in demonic replica.

So, I think it's going to look just like Malowebi, and when he gets to Zeum, they'll be none the wiser. Its why the Nonman wanted to touch Kellhus in WLW. I'm really interested to see what type of magic it will use, maybe some combo of anagonic and whatever Malowebi used?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: H on August 16, 2016, 11:59:15 am
I've always been under the impression that Demon-Malowebi would have the body of Malowebi and the head/face of a Ciphrang (decapitant). Though on reread I noticed this passage.

Quote
The abomination raised his hands, held them about the sorcerous turmoil of its face, the knitting of his blood to its blasted meat and skin. Malowebi screamed for watching Malowebi reborn in demonic replica.

So, I think it's going to look just like Malowebi, and when he gets to Zeum, they'll be none the wiser. Its why the Nonman wanted to touch Kellhus in WLW. I'm really interested to see what type of magic it will use, maybe some combo of anagonic and whatever Malowebi used?

Yeah, I sure hope that we don't miss what goes on in Zeum in some off-screen way.  I guess we are fast realizing why Scott said Malowebi was one of his favorites to write.  My guess is that somehow it has some sort of dual personality, of both the Ciphrang and Malowebi.

I'd be interested to see who that Ciphrang is, because it seems probable that there is some reason why that particular Ciphrang was chosen to not only be a Decapitant, but to be the one to replace Malowebi.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 16, 2016, 04:10:40 pm
Quote
The abomination raised his hands, held them about the sorcerous turmoil of its face, the knitting of his blood to its blasted meat and skin. Malowebi screamed for watching Malowebi reborn in demonic replica.

So, I think it's going to look just like Malowebi, and when he gets to Zeum, they'll be none the wiser. Its why the Nonman wanted to touch Kellhus in WLW. I'm really interested to see what type of magic it will use, maybe some combo of anagonic and whatever Malowebi used?

Yeah, great passage. That part particularly seems to bother Malowebi's Head.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: The Sharmat on August 16, 2016, 07:15:40 pm
I miss Zioz. Hope it's him.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 17, 2016, 02:15:25 pm
I believe it'd be Zioz or the other one Achamian fought in TWP - as per the convoluted fan thoughts (Trisk deserves the credit, as far as I remember it, but I buy into it) that the Ciphrang that hang on Kellhus' girdle are the two Ciphrang that Iyokus used in PON who weren't hit by Chorae.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: sohorat on August 17, 2016, 09:48:12 pm
Well, I hope that it's not Setmahaga, because between you and me, he's the worst.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: The Sharmat on August 18, 2016, 01:06:12 am
Was Setmahaga the weirdo that spit killing-flies? I so love Bakker's demons. Sound like something from Sumerian and early Semitic mythologies. Just waiting for headless Pazuzu or some many-eyed Flaming Wheel Angel orsomething to show up.

I believe it'd be Zioz or the other one Achamian fought in TWP - as per the convoluted fan thoughts (Trisk deserves the credit, as far as I remember it, but I buy into it) that the Ciphrang that hang on Kellhus' girdle are the two Ciphrang that Iyokus used in PON who weren't hit by Chorae.
Ankaryotis was the other, IIRC.

I just like the names, ok?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: sohorat on August 18, 2016, 05:49:30 pm
Nope. That was me. I also can make wolves bubble from my palms.  It's awesome.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: The Sharmat on August 19, 2016, 04:46:29 am
You're cool Sohorat, I'd summon you any time.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Madness on August 22, 2016, 07:25:40 pm
Was Setmahaga the weirdo that spit killing-flies? I so love Bakker's demons. Sound like something from Sumerian and early Semitic mythologies. Just waiting for headless Pazuzu or some many-eyed Flaming Wheel Angel orsomething to show up.

I believe it'd be Zioz or the other one Achamian fought in TWP - as per the convoluted fan thoughts (Trisk deserves the credit, as far as I remember it, but I buy into it) that the Ciphrang that hang on Kellhus' girdle are the two Ciphrang that Iyokus used in PON who weren't hit by Chorae.
Ankaryotis was the other, IIRC.

I just like the names, ok?

Lol - +1 all that.

Nope. That was me. I also can make wolves bubble from my palms.  It's awesome.

Lol - shame about those Cishaurim.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MG on September 20, 2016, 04:04:45 am
We'll I think that's true MG, he is both harvesting the fields and looking for a way to stop damnation. The ultimate long con if there ever was one.

I wonder if he's angling to smash Yatwer into Gilgaol?  Make both sides think that he might be working for them to lure them into some kind of unrefusable duel to mutual death?
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: MSJ on September 20, 2016, 02:44:41 pm
We'll I think that's true MG, he is both harvesting the fields and looking for a way to stop damnation. The ultimate long con if there ever was one.

I wonder if he's angling to smash Yatwer into Gilgaol?  Make both sides think that he might be working for them to lure them into some kind of unrefusable duel to mutual death?

I'm really starting to believe that the man in Kellhus's dreams is Kellhus. I don't know that he want to shut the Outside, the more I think about it. He wants to dominate it. This killing the 100 and him becoming the sole God of the Outside, the Absolute. Maybe just him and Onkis, can't get rid of the head on the pole behind you. Now, mind you, killing the 100 would still essentially stop damnation to the extent it's become on Earwa.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: H on September 20, 2016, 03:49:03 pm
I'm really starting to believe that the man in Kellhus's dreams is Kellhus. I don't know that he want to shut the Outside, the more I think about it. He wants to dominate it. This killing the 100 and him becoming the sole God of the Outside, the Absolute. Maybe just him and Onkis, can't get rid of the head on the pole behind you. Now, mind you, killing the 100 would still essentially stop damnation to the extent it's become on Earwa.

That's the spirit!  8)

Think, if Saubon could do it and he knows nothing of the Outside, what could Kellhus do?  Speak directly to himself, perhaps?

Further, all the things we joking, or not jokingly, ascribed to "shadow Moe" could easily apply to "future Kellhus."
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: obstinate on July 10, 2017, 06:58:53 pm
We'll I think that's true MG, he is both harvesting the fields and looking for a way to stop damnation. The ultimate long con if there ever was one.

I wonder if he's angling to smash Yatwer into Gilgaol?  Make both sides think that he might be working for them to lure them into some kind of unrefusable duel to mutual death?

I'm really starting to believe that the man in Kellhus's dreams is Kellhus. I don't know that he want to shut the Outside, the more I think about it. He wants to dominate it. This killing the 100 and him becoming the sole God of the Outside, the Absolute. Maybe just him and Onkis, can't get rid of the head on the pole behind you. Now, mind you, killing the 100 would still essentially stop damnation to the extent it's become on Earwa.
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but this really spoke to me. You know, in some sense, the gods of the outside, with their hungers and elemental urges, are like the opposite of Kellhus, who has mastered all his desires and is only mission. You could expect that if Kellhus did dominate the outside, life on Earwa would be quite different from how it is now, simply because Kellhus does not want.
Title: Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Malowebi
Post by: Wilshire on July 10, 2017, 07:19:34 pm
No arbitrary rules for reviving old threads (never understood that taboo myself anyway). Post where you will :)