The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => Literature => Topic started by: MSJ on January 05, 2017, 07:06:47 pm
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Continue.
I have just finished Dune (1), and am about halfway through Dune Messiah. I heard the first three are the only ones worth reading so I'll go onto Hyperion Cantos after that, thank you Wilshire. I'm gonna do a little sci-fi and then a complete TSA re-read before TUC comes out. Happy New Years, to all.
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Honestly, the last 2 in Frank Herbert's Dune were amazing. They just end on a cliffhanger that he died before he concluded. So sad. Imo worth reading it through if you really enjoy the series.
Hyperion, now that's my shit, du. Another one, btw, that people say the first two are the only ones worth reading. And I will again disagree, though the last two do take an odd turn, the writing is still superb. They aren't for everyone though, so Hyperion/The Fall are the only required reading ;) .
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Honestly, the last 2 in Frank Herbert's Dune were amazing. They just end on a cliffhanger that he died before he concluded. So sad. Imo worth reading it through if you really enjoy the series.
Hyperion, now that's my shit, du. Another one, btw, that people say the first two are the only ones worth reading. And I will again disagree, though the last two do take an odd turn, the writing is still superb. They aren't for everyone though, so Hyperion/The Fall are the only required reading ;) .
So how many are after Dune Messsiah that are worth reading.
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Depends on who you ask.
For me, I'd say anything by Frank Herbert himself - none of that trash his children wrote (but there are followers of those too).
So: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, and Chapterhouse: Dune. He died like 6 months later.
God Emperor is probably my least favorite. Its slow and takes a weird turn, but its entirely a setup for Heretics and Chapterhouse which isn't really even clear until you read the next book. Its a required bridge from Children to Heretics.
You could probably stop just fine at Messiah though. That mostly concludes the story setup in Dune and is a good stopping point if you don't want to read them all at once.
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Thanks Wilshire. Good advice. I'll stop at Messiah go to Hyperion and when I have an itching I'll go back to Dune. Unless.......I just can't stop at Messiah. Who knows?
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That sounds like a good plan. After September last year I stopped reading multiple books by the same author, and its been great. You get a lot more flavour that way, keeps things from getting stale ... and that's enough extended analogies. Go with what you feel. Must cultural references that still occur stop at Messiah (last year I read a Cracked top whatever list and they mentioned the fear mantra in its entirety ).
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MSJ, if you want to do a buddy read I can join you in the TSA re-read.
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MSJ, if you want to do a buddy read I can join you in the TSA re-read.
Sure, we'll time it for the release and see if anyone else wants to join in. The Slog Part Duex!!!!-
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Oops just remembered this thread. I will collate all of the posts from here and put them on the thread I have just created.
If you want to run this thread instead MSJ that's cool but I am going to follow my old format! :)
I would have had the 2017 targets up sooner but the site was down :(
Happy 2017 all!
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oh suuuuure. Blame the mods.
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Well, takes all kinds, the 4th Dune book of the series was my favorite ;D
Haven't read the last one yet, Chapter House, will get to it some day. The "end" written by his son wasn't at least worth it to learn how it ends? I heard Chaper House was a cliffhanger.
I've read a lot of Herbert, all so good. Love the Void Ship series - that was one VERY fun read.
Hyperion is easily the coolest scifi environment ever rendered, even cooler than Dune ( so much better than Star Trek, Star Wars - and I like those works, so that's saying something ). I love all 4 of the Hyperion books. I got a friend of mine to read the first book and he threw it across the room when he finished it ( bit of a hanger in that one ) yelling "fuck him!". I tried to calm him down letting him know it continues in book 2, but was having none of it, LOL. I've read other Dan Simmon's ... so much of his stuff is so good. Carrion Comfort is worth the effort.
Not to kiss Bakker's ass, but the Prince books are my favorite fantasy. But not by far, Abercrombie's First Law stuff is very strong, good stuff. I liked the Cold Fire trilogy, Friedman knows her stuff.
I'm out of fantasy stuff to read - any recommendations? Didn't care for Prince of Thorns. Didn't care for American Gods ( though I like Gaiman's comics ).
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Richard Morgan's A Land Fit for Heroes. First book is Cold Commands, some of the best stuff ive read besides Bakker. Matter of fact, probably my favorite fantasy series next to TSA.
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Cool, thanks for the rec, I'll get it. The Steel Remains is not the first on in the trilogy?
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Yes it is, excuse me. Then Cold Commands and Dark Defiles.
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Well, takes all kinds, the 4th Dune book of the series was my favorite ;D
Haven't read the last one yet, Chapter House, will get to it some day. The "end" written by his son wasn't at least worth it to learn how it ends? I heard Chaper House was a cliffhanger.
I've read a lot of Herbert, all so good. Love the Void Ship series - that was one VERY fun read.
Hyperion is easily the coolest scifi environment ever rendered, even cooler than Dune ( so much better than Star Trek, Star Wars - and I like those works, so that's saying something ). I love all 4 of the Hyperion books. I got a friend of mine to read the first book and he threw it across the room when he finished it ( bit of a hanger in that one ) yelling "fuck him!". I tried to calm him down letting him know it continues in book 2, but was having none of it, LOL. I've read other Dan Simmon's ... so much of his stuff is so good. Carrion Comfort is worth the effort.
Not to kiss Bakker's ass, but the Prince books are my favorite fantasy. But not by far, Abercrombie's First Law stuff is very strong, good stuff. I liked the Cold Fire trilogy, Friedman knows her stuff.
I'm out of fantasy stuff to read - any recommendations? Didn't care for Prince of Thorns. Didn't care for American Gods ( though I like Gaiman's comics ).
Hey, Tao. How's it going?
Dune 4 (God Emperor) is good, as are Heretics (5) and Chapterhouse (5). The Brian Herbert stuff is crap. They have moments, but.....mostly crap. Dreadful writing.
Dan Simmons, I dig very much. "Carrion Comfort"....yes! I've picked up quite a few of his non-sci-fi novels (Drood, Black Hills, The Terror, The Abominable. The Fifth Heart, in which Henry James meets Sherlock Holmes!) Hyperion/Endymion are very good reads. Rhadamanth Nemes......what a scary adversary!
I like Abercrombie's First Law trilogy. You might REALLY like the Engineer trilogy by K. J. Parker. And are there any fans of the Riddlemaster Of Hed trilogy by Patricia McKillip? WAY high up there on my list of favorites.
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Never better, Beard - never better! Thanks for asking - hope you're tripping the light fantastic, yourself. Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check out The Engineer.
By the way, opinion on The Name of the Wind, Patrick Rothfuss ( Kingkiller Chronicle )? A "friend" recommended it, but I don't trust him, he likes screwing people over too much.
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Never better, Beard - never better! Thanks for asking - hope you're tripping the light fantastic, yourself. Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check out The Engineer.
By the way, opinion on The Name of the Wind, Patrick Rothfuss ( Kingkiller Chronicle )? A "friend" recommended it, but I don't trust him, he likes screwing people over too much.
I recommend Rothfuss. I enjoyed TNotW very much. The sequel, The Wise Man's Fear, is also good.
Some friend.....
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Never better, Beard - never better! Thanks for asking - hope you're tripping the light fantastic, yourself. Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check out The Engineer.
By the way, opinion on The Name of the Wind, Patrick Rothfuss ( Kingkiller Chronicle )? A "friend" recommended it, but I don't trust him, he likes screwing people over too much.
I recommend Rothfuss. I enjoyed TNotW very much. The sequel, The Wise Man's Fear, is also good.
Some friend.....
I'll 2nd that, also. Another series that was very good was Anthony Ryan's Raven's Shadow series, very good..
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Thank you both, was a good idea to check with you guys, my brothers in Nothing, knowing you have good taste ;)
Yeah, as with Begbie, my friend's a monster, but he's a mate.
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Kingkiller is very good but it will probably never going to be finished. At least not in the foreseeable future, I will hold fire on it for the time being if I were you.
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If you want a long epic fantasy series that is finished, you can't go wrong with Malazan "ducks". My second favourite of all time after TSA.
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Yeah, as with Begbie, my friend's a monster, but he's a mate.
Gotta have mates..... :)
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Too funny - I did a search on "Malazan ducks" ... er, so I take it you're referring to Steven Erikson, the "ducks" comment referring to criticism of the works elsewhere in this forum? Should be obvious to all by now I'm still new to connecting on blogs and the like ( hence 3 years ago, all I did was ask some questions on Prince of Nothing and then left ... ).
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That confused me, too, Tao. Redeagl should have written <ducks>, not "ducks". The typography for stage directions is <........>.
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Kingkiller Chronicles is some of the best fantasy I've read. I'd definetly recommend.
This thread (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1492.0) goes into it a bit, there might be another one or two on Rothfuss around here somewhere.
Too funny - I did a search on "Malazan ducks" ... er, so I take it you're referring to Steven Erikson, the "ducks" comment referring to criticism of the works elsewhere in this forum? Should be obvious to all by now I'm still new to connecting on blogs and the like ( hence 3 years ago, all I did was ask some questions on Prince of Nothing and then left ... ).
"Ducks" as in "ducks out of the way of incoming objects being thrown".
Malazan is acceptable, but suffers for being a bit long winded. Most of the 10 mainline series books are 1000+ pages. I made a bit of a thread about my journey through Malazan here (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1458.0), but in summary: Several incredible books in the series, if you've got the time to read it all, I'd highly recommend it as well.
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Too funny - I did a search on "Malazan ducks" ... er, so I take it you're referring to Steven Erikson, the "ducks" comment referring to criticism of the works elsewhere in this forum? Should be obvious to all by now I'm still new to connecting on blogs and the like ( hence 3 years ago, all I did was ask some questions on Prince of Nothing and then left ... ).
Lmao, this is hilarious. And yes, I meant the Malazan series by Steven Erikson. If you scrolled a bit through the literature sub forum here, you will know why I should duck...
That confused me, too, Tao. Redeagl should have written <ducks>, not "ducks". The typography for stage directions is <........>.
No more Qirri for you BK.
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Too funny - I did a search on "Malazan ducks" ... er, so I take it you're referring to Steven Erikson, the "ducks" comment referring to criticism of the works elsewhere in this forum? Should be obvious to all by now I'm still new to connecting on blogs and the like ( hence 3 years ago, all I did was ask some questions on Prince of Nothing and then left ... ).
Lmao, this is hilarious. And yes, I meant the Malazan series by Steven Erikson. If you scrolled a bit through the literature sub forum here, you will know why I should duck...
That confused me, too, Tao. Redeagl should have written <ducks>, not "ducks". The typography for stage directions is <........>.
No more Qirri for you BK.
Lmao, Redeagl! 'S okay, I'm trying to quit, anyway. Otherwise, it's Qirri rehab for me <shudders>.
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Hey Beard - I'm looking up the Riddlemaster Of Hed trilogy by Patricia McKillip in wikipedia, but confused as to what to get - appears there are omnibus editions as well. Is it just the 3 books re-released later under different names or is it more than that? Let me know what the deal is, what to purchase so as to not duplicate - if such an exercise is worth your time, thanks.
The Engineer trilogy by K. J. Parker got mixed reviews, but one of your fav's you say? I know Amazon reviews is a cesspool mixed with manipulative trash from competitors and the like, but a common criticism was too much time was spent on describing "machine parts" ... what say you! Defend yourself, KNOW when you're in danger!
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Hey Beard - I'm looking up the Riddlemaster Of Hed trilogy by Patricia McKillip in wikipedia, but confused as to what to get - appears there are omnibus editions as well. Is it just the 3 books re-released later under different names or is it more than that? Let me know what the deal is, what to purchase so as to not duplicate - if such an exercise is worth your time, thanks.
The Engineer trilogy by K. J. Parker got mixed reviews, but one of your fav's you say? I know Amazon reviews is a cesspool mixed with manipulative trash from competitors and the like, but a common criticism was too much time was spent on describing "machine parts" ... what say you! Defend yourself, KNOW when you're in danger!
Hey, Tao! Hope you're doing well.
Amazon reviews...if you like Bakker and grimdark generally, you'll dig the Engineer trilogy. "Too much time spent on describing 'machine parts'".... I interpret that as "ANY time"! That criticism....yeah, I hear there's a lot about whaling in Moby-Dick, also. I can't say they're my favorites, but they're high quality. There's also a stand-alone novel called, iirc, "The Company", which is superb.
I've been looking for an omnibus copy of Riddlemaster; my old paperbacks are falling apart. The three volumes are The Riddlemaster Of Hed, Heir Of Sea And Fire, and Harpist In The Wind. Highly recommended. They're certainly not grimdark! I love 'em to death! I'm due to re-read them, matter of fact.
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Thanks, Beard! You're a love.
Ha ha, nice analogy with the Whale thing, well said - that comment makes the grade to put this on my reader-do list. Also, something doesn't have to be evil as all get out for me to like it ( admit it does help, though 8) ).
I'm sweating the beginning of The Name of the Wind ... I'm sure it'll turn out to be a great book, have to give it a chance - but then again, such greats as Bakker, et al has spoiled me and I lose patience quick ( e.g. I see nice reviews of American Gods - just couldn't get into it and after 200 pages I gave up ... I wasn't scared, intrigued or interested in the story/characters - the god of sex thing eating the man with her vagina as he worships her didn't even do it for me ). The whole Gaiman powerful beings living normal lives is getting old on me ( Odin/Wednesday robs an ATM to fund his trip to meet with the other Norse Gods to plan war with American Gods ... yawn ). I will watch the tv series ( recording it now ), though - I'm a sucker for awesome episodic television. There a thread to rant and rave about tv shows somewhere in this forum? Seems like we talk about everything else - would be cool if our shared aesthetic for fantasy translates into tv tastes as well - I bet Beard is a big Friends fan ... ).
Be warned now - I am a SLOW reader - a weakness I've struggled with my whole life ( probably have undiagnosed ADD or something ). So when TUC comes out, I'll be away for at least a month so I don't ruin it by reading spoilers here. I promise to return in less than 3 years ...
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The Name of the Wind has some of the most interesting magic ever - so if that's your thing, stick with it. Plenty else to absolutely love about TNotW.
Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
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I second Wilshire on TNotW. Stick with it.
A TV show thread? Now how could that possibly be interesting, Tao? ;) "Friends"? Damn straight! Courteney Cox? Jennifer Aniston? Hello?
I wish I could slow my reading pace down, Tao. I greatly look forward to TUC.
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We do have a thread for that... What are you watching? (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1726.msg24811#msg24811)
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Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
OMG - when I got to the part about the dude wearing the faces ( Cet’ingira? ), I was hooked! And those flashbacks ( dreams ) of that nasty stuff before was amazing.
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The Name of the Wind has some of the most interesting magic ever - so if that's your thing, stick with it. Plenty else to absolutely love about TNotW.
Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
I enjoyed TDTCB from the very first word.Not kidding.
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Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
I enjoyed TDTCB from the very first word.Not kidding.
That first epigraph hooked me. The Ainoni (?) nursery rhyme that goes, "Men regret,/Nonmen forget,/And the Sranc have all the fun."
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Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
I enjoyed TDTCB from the very first word.Not kidding.
That first epigraph hooked me. The Ainoni (?) nursery rhyme that goes, "Men regret,/Nonmen forget,/And the Sranc have all the fun."
I shall never tire of underlining a concise little fact which these superstitious people are loath to admit—namely, that a thought comes when “it” wants, not when “I” want . . . —FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL
You had me at hello.
ETA: though I will admit, like Wilshire, it wasn't til we get the Cnaüir and Kellhus on the Steppe til I was hooked.
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Really, you thought TDTCB was enthralling the first go around? It wasn't until about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way through until I really got hooked (barring some of the stuff in the initial chapters with Kellhus/akka).
I enjoyed TDTCB from the very first word.Not kidding.
That first epigraph hooked me. The Ainoni (?) nursery rhyme that goes, "Men regret,/Nonmen forget,/And the Sranc have all the fun."
I shall never tire of underlining a concise little fact which these superstitious people are loath to admit—namely, that a thought comes when “it” wants, not when “I” want . . . —FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL
You had me at hello.
ETA: though I will admit, like Wilshire, it wasn't til we get the Cnaüir and Kellhus on the Steppe til I was hooked.
Maybe....the second epigraph?? And for me, the early Akka chapters (plus Kellhus vs. Mekeretrig) sealed the deal.
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Maybe....the second epigraph?? And for me, the early Akka chapters (plus Kellhus vs. Mekeretrig) sealed the deal.
Yea, Akka is what kept me going. But, upon reread everything is awesome. The Xerius plotline is some of the best stuff. Kiyuth. Really isn't a chapter where I get bored and struggle to go on.
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If you want a real laugh, look up other blogs that discuss PON. I stumbled across one trying to find how to spell an name for one of my posts here and it's hilarious. So many people dismissing the books over the sex and violence and I'm like, "well, now I know why so much fantasy fiction is written - a wide audience for kids riding dragons and heroes just barely pulling out the win in the end". Appears the appetite for that equation remains strong. A few of the fools were pissed that they found PON "hero" Kellhus as someone they couldn't "root for" ... well, uh, yeah, you're complaining about one of the genius parts of the writing - Bakker has negotiated the 4th wall in no way any other author has done before - reaching into us via our reading as opposed to the typical 4th wall crashing through as explicit talking to the reader - challenging ourselves to have a personal connection not driven by the writer - maybe the most under bearing work I've read, it is completely left up to us to judge and understand on our own terms and we're not wrong regardless of our conclusions. The beauty of that astounds me.
Oh, whatever ...
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If you want a real laugh, look up other blogs that discuss PON. I stumbled across one trying to find how to spell an name for one of my posts here and it's hilarious. So many people dismissing the books over the sex and violence and I'm like, "well, now I know why so much fantasy fiction is written - a wide audience for kids riding dragons and heroes just barely pulling out the win in the end". Appears the appetite for that equation remains strong. A few of the fools were pissed that they found PON "hero" Kellhus as someone they couldn't "root for" ... well, uh, yeah, you're complaining about one of the genius parts of the writing - Bakker has negotiated the 4th wall in no way any other author has done before - reaching into us via our reading as opposed to the typical 4th wall crashing through as explicit talking to the reader - challenging ourselves to have a personal connection not driven by the writer - maybe the most under bearing work I've read, it is completely left up to us to judge and understand on our own terms and we're not wrong regardless of our conclusions. The beauty of that astounds me.
Oh, whatever ...
You forgot the "boring philosophy".
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You forgot the "boring philosophy".
oh, yeah, that too ... the "immaturity" and the so passe of it all ... I'm like, are they reading the same book I am? Not being a writer myself, I'm going to guess that no writer expects the world to love their works, but some of the criticism is way off the mark - Bakker and the like ( think you cats call it grimdark ) isn't your thing, fine. But I detect genuine disdain/disgust for the work and from where I'm standing that confirms the power of the writing in that it's effectual. I confess I enjoy the books more than I feel challenged, but seems challenging us readers is a big part of it ( not of understanding complexity, though for my small mind it seems that way at times, LOL - but challenging our identity - what are you? ).