The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => Atrocity Tales => Topic started by: Madness on May 18, 2017, 10:42:41 pm

Title: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Madness on May 18, 2017, 10:42:41 pm
For discussion of the newly released Atrocity Tale, in the Evil is a Matter of Perspective anthology by Grimdark Magazine (https://www.amazon.com/Evil-Matter-Perspective-Adrian-Tchaikovsky/dp/0648010570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495146663&sr=8-1&keywords=evil+is+a+matter+of+perspective), earlier e-book (https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/evil-is-a-matter-of-perspective).

For the moment this conversation will be limited to those who backed the preexisting kickstarter campaign (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/155719766/evil-is-a-matter-of-perspective-an-anthology-of-an/updates). Be warned of spoilers.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: H on May 19, 2017, 01:30:35 am
Well, that was a bit short...

Interesting, I guess I would say.  Certainly more KoMH than TFS or T4R.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wolfdrop on May 19, 2017, 08:54:13 pm
This is going to sound like a weird question but is his appearance described in this?

In TGO he's described as "towering" and "thin and stammering" in the same sentence which confused me.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Madness on May 19, 2017, 10:41:45 pm
I'm going to read it shortly. I made it about a third into it last night.

Wolfdrop, those two aren't incompatible. I'm tall and thin - I try to not stammer but, you know. But a person can be towering and thin and stammering. World's got all kinds of people ;).
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Madness on May 20, 2017, 12:10:43 am
He's described as an awkward giant at one point, Wolfdrop :P. Probably others I didn't notice.

Well, as I said in Quorum yesterday, I'm going to have fun contextualizing this within world. Bakker's also mentioned that he thinks Scraul would make a good character vehicle so I'll interpret hints outside the story as a more encompassing narrative context.

It's too bad he didn't include an epigraph and date.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wolfdrop on May 20, 2017, 12:15:30 pm
Awesome, thanks Madness!

I had thought that they weren't mutually exclusive, but part of me was convinced that something was in the wrong order and that "towering" should have been referring to Bogyar.

Looking forward to reading this one.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: H on May 22, 2017, 10:17:15 am
Perhaps it is only because I happened to start reading The King In Yellow last week, before I read this story, but it certainly seems to be stylistically similar to those sorts of "ghost stories" in that book.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: geoffrobro on May 26, 2017, 02:43:30 pm
Okay on my first read thru, I can't place the year. It must be before the unifaction wars because there's no mention of the holy aspect emperor or any "sweet kell" or whatever phrase. Uster is still a mercenary so maybe he hasn't met Saubon.

Uster' s sister seem to be witches or something of the sort who can correctly see the future. Uster himself know how he will die and has no worry unless there is a Bashrag invoked.
Another affirmation that all of this has happened before.
I like the fact what we've studied the metaphysics of Earwa like sorcerous scholars and there still mysteries like ghost.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wolfdrop on May 26, 2017, 08:23:42 pm
I had trouble placing the year too.

I figured it was in the midst of the Unification Wars, because one section describes him "warring for the Aspect-Emperor across the Secharib cane fields". The section where he stares down a cobra.

I definitely understand his appearance now too, awkward giant is very fitting!
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: geoffrobro on May 26, 2017, 10:55:04 pm
I had trouble placing the year too.

I figured it was in the midst of the Unification Wars, because one section describes him "warring for the Aspect-Emperor across the Secharib cane fields". The section where he stares down a cobra.

I definitely understand his appearance now too, awkward giant is very fitting!
I forgot about that part. I picture him like a tall basketball player looking awkward guy.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Madness on June 13, 2017, 07:46:33 pm
Awesome, thanks Madness!

I had thought that they weren't mutually exclusive, but part of me was convinced that something was in the wrong order and that "towering" should have been referring to Bogyar.

Looking forward to reading this one.

Rereading it now (or I was when I wrote the bulk of this post) and there's like an entire paragraph right at the beginning describing him ;).

Okay on my first read thru, I can't place the year. It must be before the unifaction wars because there's no mention of the holy aspect emperor or any "sweet kell" or whatever phrase. Uster is still a mercenary so maybe he hasn't met Saubon.

Uster' s sister seem to be witches or something of the sort who can correctly see the future. Uster himself know how he will die and has no worry unless there is a Bashrag invoked.

I don't think the unnamed Other Sister is of the Few - though, perhaps. But there's that passage about Esmenet's mom early in TWP about admonishing Esmenet not to practice augury by the stars and we've always wondered if there is something to that. Uster’s Sister seems aware of predestination.

I had trouble placing the year too.

I figured it was in the midst of the Unification Wars, because one section describes him "warring for the Aspect-Emperor across the Secharib cane fields". The section where he stares down a cobra.

I definitely understand his appearance now too, awkward giant is very fitting!

I actually read this as a flashback... which weirds me out dating this Atrocity Tale. Uster also seems to recall killing the Palantine et al. who asks him to dine in honour of his notoriety.

I forgot about that part. I picture him like a tall basketball player looking awkward guy.

Lol.

Other random thoughts while skimming the story again:

- Uster seems to possess no sense of self (p481, 483).
- The Uster murdering surrogate fathers thing (p484).
- Mirrim, the Daughter of the Angle-Lord of Bayal, was in a position to be taken from Lady Bayal but Lady Bayal hired a Schoolman to stop that? (p487)
- Mirrim has been marked (not Marked) from birth by the Carathayan and the people of Bayal consider her birth and death tribute in order to safeguard them whatever that is? (p487-488)
- The Lady Bayal's mother describes either first daughters or just daughters generally being taken by... the demon/creature/ghost/entity/thing of the forest (p489).
- Uster can’t call his Other Sister by name (p490) and he defeats the Carathayan by naming it at the end of the story?
- "“That,” Uster observed, “would be scary.”" (p491) - Lol, Uster must have been pissed at Dagliash when the Bashrag jump out.
- The oath has been broken … the wheel must be reset (p492) – not sure what this is about.
- Uster’s Sisters sent him to deal with the Carathayan (p494).
- Uster takes the Carathayan’s head (p495).
- "Are we...safe...safe from the curse?” (p495) - not sure what this is about.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wilshire on June 28, 2017, 03:16:37 am
Finally got around to it ... very disappointing. What was this supposed to be? Who is the intended audience?

Honestly, I think this was the weakest story Bakker has ever written - that I've read at least. It's just poorly done, even considering that I know more about earwa than almost anyone barring you folks here. It seems like Bakker was attemping to do some kind of mysterious slow reveal of info in a story that was only a couple pages long. On top of that, he relies heavily on associations that just don't exist. The story is just a vague collection of mysteries that, quite frankly, seem half baked.

I can't imagine even trying to read this without the context of 7 books and other shorts. What a let down.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Redeagl on July 04, 2017, 04:04:00 pm
I just got the anthology on my kindle! :)
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: H on July 05, 2017, 10:05:23 am
I was going to reread this when my hardcover copy came in, but apparently they either never sent me one or it got lost in the mail...
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wilshire on July 05, 2017, 11:42:44 am
I was going to reread this when my hardcover copy came in, but apparently they either never sent me one or it got lost in the mail...
You should have received it by now, according to the kickstarter. I'd go back to their kickstarted page and reach out to them - they've been extremely responsive.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: H on July 05, 2017, 12:05:36 pm
You should have received it by now, according to the kickstarter. I'd go back to their kickstarted page and reach out to them - they've been extremely responsive.

Yeah, I sent a message to Adrian through the Kickstarter on Monday, but haven't heard back yet...
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Somnambulist on July 05, 2017, 02:00:25 pm
I've asked after it, as well.  Media mail was used, so when it gets there it gets there (apparently).  Little ray of sunlight: one person on FB said they received their copy on Monday.  Maybe this week?  Anyone here get copies yet?
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Wilshire on July 05, 2017, 02:04:57 pm
I've asked after it, as well.  Media mail was used, so when it gets there it gets there (apparently).  Little ray of sunlight: one person on FB said they received their copy on Monday.  Maybe this week?  Anyone here get copies yet?
Me. I got a hardcover in the mail what feels like a while ago but I dont really remember the date
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: H on July 05, 2017, 02:17:04 pm
I've asked after it, as well.  Media mail was used, so when it gets there it gets there (apparently).  Little ray of sunlight: one person on FB said they received their copy on Monday.  Maybe this week?  Anyone here get copies yet?
Me. I got a hardcover in the mail what feels like a while ago but I dont really remember the date

If I remember correctly, you got in around the 17th.  I went back to the kickstarter page and apparently there are a bunch of people who never got theirs...but indeed, media mail is the sloth-level snail mail to end all snail-mail.
Title: Re: The Carathayan [Short Story Spoilers]
Post by: Walter on August 10, 2017, 06:50:55 pm
Finally read this story.  Very strange.