The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Unholy Consult => Topic started by: Madness on July 23, 2017, 02:47:38 pm

Title: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on July 23, 2017, 02:47:38 pm
Collecting reviews:

The Wertzone (http://thewertzone.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html?spref=tw) ****Ĺ
Pat's Fantasy Hotlist (http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-unholy-consult.html) 9/10
Bakkerfans (mrganondorf) (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2150.0)
A Sky of Books and Movies (https://jeroenthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/r-scott-bakker-the-unholy-consult-2017-review/) 9/10 (Thanks again, Jeroen, great read!)

Post any others you may find in this thread and I'll update this post. Cheers!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: themerchant on July 23, 2017, 03:52:10 pm
Here's my review, the first 6 1/2 books are primer so you can understand with such clarity how fucked everyone is after the events of the last 1/2 book.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Hiro on August 09, 2017, 09:25:55 am
Short one:

http://www.shelfinflicted.com/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-aspect-emperor-4-by.html?spref=tw (http://www.shelfinflicted.com/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-aspect-emperor-4-by.html?spref=tw)
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Wilshire on August 09, 2017, 01:51:39 pm
What a great name for a website
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: profgrape on August 10, 2017, 11:24:20 pm
My review on Goodreads:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2071349565?book_show_action=false&from_review_page=1 (https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/2071349565?book_show_action=false&from_review_page=1)
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on August 11, 2017, 11:33:10 am
Thanks, profgrape. You definitely just sent me down the rabbit hole of review reading.

Divisive, to say the least ;).
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Hiro on August 22, 2017, 10:56:20 am
A new one at:

http://frigidreads.blogspot.nl/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html (http://frigidreads.blogspot.nl/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html)
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Cynical Cat on August 22, 2017, 11:15:26 am
A new one at:

http://frigidreads.blogspot.nl/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html (http://frigidreads.blogspot.nl/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html)

frigid's a friend and I pushed Scott Bakker pretty hard at him.  He's got a fairly broad body of reviews so you may find a fair amount of interest there.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on August 22, 2017, 01:53:55 pm
That's great, CC. I've always enjoyed Frigid's reviews.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Frail on August 25, 2017, 05:02:58 am
Where are the 10/10s? Reviewers have no balls anymore honestly. They find one thing they dont like personally and bring it down to sound smarter. Lets see these reviews reviewed in 5 years and see how bad they aged compared to the holy consult
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Cynical Cat on August 25, 2017, 06:30:51 am
frigid has reminded me I didn't have to push that hard to get him to read Bakker (the benefits of having good taste cred).  That's true, I didn't need to, but I did.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: AWallis on August 30, 2017, 10:06:01 am
Here's my review before I post (a portion or a version of it) on Amazon etc. No spoilers.

'He alone had been divided against himself.'

I did not so much read The Unholy Consult as be engulfed by it. I could describe the revelation-upon-cliffhanger feeling that made hundreds of pages vanish in what seemed only moments. I could talk about putting the book down frequently to think about what the ideas meant for my own life. I could talk about the depth of concept, both literary and philosophical.

The truth is - this book was very healing for me. Proya's reflections were an important part of helping me come back from my own awful choices - not Ordealmen awful - but damaging in my own world. It quieted my mind and helped me in ways the author may never know. It was like reading The Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe, where the concepts were as significant as the plot.

I found the ending deeply satisfying, because - as with the The Prince of Nothing trilogy - it provoked feelings I had not expected. Some of the most frightening words in the series became, to me, deeply sad once I beheld their origin.

Some secrets were now in plain sight, and to others we were blinded. As in life.

An exciting and rewarding read.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on August 30, 2017, 05:21:52 pm
That's great, AWallis.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Hiro on August 31, 2017, 09:56:26 am
Another one:

http://daniellemaurer.com/blog/2017/8/18/book-review-the-unholy-consult (http://daniellemaurer.com/blog/2017/8/18/book-review-the-unholy-consult)
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Hiro on September 14, 2017, 12:50:39 pm
Speculiction:

http://speculiction.blogspot.nl/2017/09/review-of-unholy-consult-by-r-scott.html (http://speculiction.blogspot.nl/2017/09/review-of-unholy-consult-by-r-scott.html)
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 14, 2017, 02:03:17 pm
I'm seeing a common "complaint" about the books with these reviews - it's not all tied up in a pretty bow. No shit, that's part of the point of the writing - it was not done to screw the reader over, but to engage the reader in a way few authors can pull off.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on September 14, 2017, 04:45:54 pm
Speculiction:

http://speculiction.blogspot.nl/2017/09/review-of-unholy-consult-by-r-scott.html (http://speculiction.blogspot.nl/2017/09/review-of-unholy-consult-by-r-scott.html)

Thanks, Hiro!

I'm seeing a common "complaint" about the books with these reviews - it's not all tied up in a pretty bow. No shit, that's part of the point of the writing - it was not done to screw the reader over, but to engage the reader in a way few authors can pull off.

I actually thought Speculiction's review was pretty positive, overall.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Cynical Cat on September 15, 2017, 06:26:46 am
He says: "And finally, with the publishing of The Unholy Consult, I think it can at last be said that Bakker has written the epic fantasy series of the post-Tolkien era."  If you don't think that's a positive review, I think you need to reexamine your standards.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 15, 2017, 07:21:54 pm
Didn't mean to suggest all of these reviews were negative - to clarify, of those "complaining" about the work, I'm seeing some common criticisms. Not a big deal.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 15, 2017, 08:47:15 pm
Ha! Reference my thread, [TUC Spoilers] TaoHorrorís big take away from the series.

This reviewer agrees with me ... and he's a doctor, ooo aaah! The reward centers in my brain are firing on all cylinders  ;D

http://frigidreads.blogspot.nl/2017/08/the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker.html

Quote
Our society, often divided between those arrogantly assured of their salvation and immunity to the flames and those who honestly believe that those flames don't exist, has in large measure forgotten that horror even exists. Mr. Bakker brings us a small reminder that something as immense as eternity should not be taken casually. If Hell is an objective, provable fact in your universe, then it is a horrifying, gut churning, bowel loosening one and should be treated as such.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: MSJ on September 15, 2017, 11:28:54 pm
Quote from:  Tao
This reviewer agrees with me ... and he's a doctor, ooo aaah! The reward centers in my brain are firing on all cylinders  ;D

You've officially have the coolest doctor on Earth! Lucky you. You'll live forever, with his revelations from the book. ;)

ETA: shit I thought it was your doctor. .. I might look him up though, lol
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Cynical Cat on September 16, 2017, 03:46:16 am
frigid isn't a doctor nor does he claim to be.  His editor, on the other hand, is a mutual friend and does have Phd.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 16, 2017, 05:54:14 pm
frigid isn't a doctor nor does he claim to be.  His editor, on the other hand, is a mutual friend and does have Phd.

Aw, nuts! I misread that - the editor is a phd ... oh, well, ego now deflated. Does Frigid have respects? Anything?
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Woden on September 16, 2017, 06:37:22 pm
Is there any recent interview of Bakker in any site? Nothing?
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Cynical Cat on September 16, 2017, 10:50:45 pm
frigid isn't a doctor nor does he claim to be.  His editor, on the other hand, is a mutual friend and does have Phd.

Aw, nuts! I misread that - the editor is a phd ... oh, well, ego now deflated. Does Frigid have respects? Anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking.  He's a veteran of the US Marine Corps with an Anthropology degree who takes his Christianity seriously but who has no problems with being friends with godless atheists like yours truly.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 16, 2017, 10:54:39 pm
frigid isn't a doctor nor does he claim to be.  His editor, on the other hand, is a mutual friend and does have Phd.

Aw, nuts! I misread that - the editor is a phd ... oh, well, ego now deflated. Does Frigid have respects? Anything?

I'm not sure what you're asking.  He's a veteran of the US Marine Corps with an Anthropology degree who takes his Christianity seriously but who has no problems with being friends with godless atheists like yours truly.

Good enough for me! See TSA people ... I can be smart! Me and this very impressive person agree, Hell isn't just some scare tactic to get kids to Sunday school - it's some serious shit!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on September 18, 2017, 05:26:48 pm
Speculiction did a second review/addendum/piece (http://speculiction.blogspot.ca/2017/09/what-comes-next-questions-potential.html) on TUC!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on September 18, 2017, 11:12:12 pm
Speculiction did a second review/addendum/piece (http://speculiction.blogspot.ca/2017/09/what-comes-next-questions-potential.html) on TUC!

Oh, I wonder who privately contacted him about this ... hmm
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on November 24, 2017, 02:05:28 pm
Story Addict reviews TUC (http://theresearkenberg.com/2017/08/07/book-review-the-unholy-consult-by-r-scott-bakker/)!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Dora Vee on November 24, 2017, 07:51:00 pm
http://daniellemaurer.com/blog/2017/8/18/book-review-the-unholy-consult (http://daniellemaurer.com/blog/2017/8/18/book-review-the-unholy-consult)

Here's another review.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Wilshire on November 28, 2017, 02:09:40 pm
Speculiction did a second review/addendum/piece (http://speculiction.blogspot.ca/2017/09/what-comes-next-questions-potential.html) on TUC!

Oh, I wonder who privately contacted him about this ... hmm

Great review and summary. I like the baselines - this guy gets it.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on January 12, 2018, 02:57:06 pm
Elitist Book Reviews (https://elitistbookreviews.com/2017/11/30/the-unholy-consult/)!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Dora Vee on January 12, 2018, 09:14:57 pm
Quote
And the juryís still out about Proyas. He may come to bear in the next series, but Iím mildly doubtful at this point. Some of that doubtfulness revolves around the fact that Iím not entirely sure that heís even still alive.

:(
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on January 12, 2018, 09:29:13 pm
Elitist Book Reviews (https://elitistbookreviews.com/2017/11/30/the-unholy-consult/)!

I found this review poorly written - interesting he points out something he calls "writing getting in the way ... " ... his review is guilty of same, 70% was explanation on how/why he writes a review and scant on anything beyond adjectives and adverbs for the rest of it. The previous reviews you've shared on this thread were much more impressive.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Redeagl on January 12, 2018, 10:12:33 pm
Elitist Book Reviews (https://elitistbookreviews.com/2017/11/30/the-unholy-consult/)!
Turns out Bakker fans are not elitists after all :P
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on January 13, 2018, 02:15:56 am
Quote
And the juryís still out about Proyas. He may come to bear in the next series, but Iím mildly doubtful at this point. Some of that doubtfulness revolves around the fact that Iím not entirely sure that heís even still alive.

:(

(click to show/hide)

The previous reviews you've shared on this thread were much more impressive.

The EBR people were burned by TAE, Tao. You have to go back and read their PON reviews. They loved the series and saw a lot of promise in TJE and ultimately were hugely disappointed in succession by WLW/TGO. The fact that they even reviewed TUC without my prodding is impressive as they weren't even going to read TGO after WLW.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Dora Vee on January 13, 2018, 02:29:15 am
According to TV Tropes,
(click to show/hide)
.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Dora Vee on January 25, 2018, 10:55:18 pm
I'm surprised no one included this one: http://www.sfbrp.com/archives/1337

Did I miss it?
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on January 25, 2018, 11:33:34 pm
Hrrrrrg. I have such a seething petulant dislike of Luke Burrage. I even dislike his positive reviews of the first trilogy: his reasons for liking it are so facile and insubstantialóto my own facile and insubstantial mind lol.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Dora Vee on January 26, 2018, 01:30:54 am
I've seen his earlier reviews on YT and...well, I forgot them. I guess that's telling right there. I have nothing against him though.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Madness on January 26, 2018, 04:19:29 pm
I'm surprised no one included this one: http://www.sfbrp.com/archives/1337

Did I miss it?

I listened to his review and, to be honest, thought I linked it here already but in quick review of the thread, I did not.

I remember Burrage being confused by the narrative to such an extent that I questioned whether he had even read the book.

...

HP, glad to see you're still lurking :)!
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Bolivar on January 26, 2018, 08:32:31 pm
I agreed with EBR on this:

Quote
I remember reading THE DARKNESS THAT COMES BEFORE and thinking that it was well-written. But Iím telling you, I went back and looked at the prose in that book, and it is well-written. BUT the writing in THE UNHOLY CONSULT makes THE DARKNESS THAT COMES BEFORE read like it was written by an elementary school student. Bakker has come a long way in his writing skill and technique, and I canít help but think that this is killing his ability to tell a convincing story. At least it feels that way to me. The writing, as impressive as it is, just keeps getting in the way.

TAE feels like so much of the purpose of the series is being eloquently explained by an omniscient narrator instead of the events happening to the characters. You can look at things like the Cants of Compulsion with Xinemus in the first trilogy and how it gets the message across with such force.

It reminds me of the complaints in the comments for Light, Time, Gravity posts, that the lengthy soliloquies by the author interrupting the story are too long and exhausting, only for Bakker to respond that he had already cut them down considerably in their current form. He remarked before that his blog hurts his commercial appeal by turning away would-be readers but now I wonder if it's also hurt him creatively as well, having an adverse impact on his storytelling and how he writes fantasy.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: TaoHorror on January 27, 2018, 02:49:50 am
Was the part about explaining the ruin Sorweel experiences from surrendering to Kellhus one of those lengthy soliloquies? I remember reading it and thinking after a bit that this is going on way to long, but stuck with it and by the end the intended effect of it hit me, which was awesome. I think Bakker ( correctly, in my case ) knew most, if not all, of us readers would not quickly feel for Sorweel's situation since we're not kings who lost their kingdom the first day of their rule. Speaking for myself, I don't have a lot of empathy for kings given their opulent life style they were born into while so many go hungry. So it was natural for me to just read through it - but after that drowning into metaphor after metaphor what he was feeling finally hit home and I got it. He was damn near destroyed by that experience and it took that much writing to have it resonate.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: Wilshire on January 29, 2018, 06:48:57 pm
that his blog hurts his commercial appeal by turning away would-be readers but now I wonder if it's also hurt him creatively as well, having an adverse impact on his storytelling and how he writes fantasy.

I think its pretty clear to anyone paying attention that Bakker doesn't know anything about commercial appeal, or the who/what/where/why of him not having more. Reading anything he writes about the subject is ... laughable.

Personally, not regarding TUC but otherwise, his actions bespeak of someone railing against the lot he made for himself. Apparently scorned by academia he turned to fiction, but absent the wild success he planned on having there he appears to be looking to go back to 'legitimate' avenues for publications in scientific journals and the like. A different corner to shout from.

Ah well...I'll be pleasantly surprised if he publishes any fiction before 2025.
Title: Re: TUC Reviews
Post by: BeardFisher-King on January 29, 2018, 07:43:02 pm
Ah well...I'll be pleasantly surprised if he publishes any fiction before 2025.
"Seven years? Seven f***ing years?"

-to be written on my tombstone in the sad event that I should die suddenly anytime in 2018.......or.......http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2626.msg43499#msg43499