The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: Woden on September 01, 2017, 07:53:49 pm

Title: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 01, 2017, 07:53:49 pm
I was searching for a similar thread and I haven't found it - if I'm wrong, please, mods, merge this in the other (if that is possible).

I will start with a minor thing but that I hate it most. SWORDS ON THE BACK. It is a common mistake that is shared in my favorite fantasy books. Why does Kellhus carry his longsword sheathed on his shoulder? WTF! This is silly, maybe it looks badass for noobs but anyone who knows something about HEMA or medieval warfare considers this complete bullshit. It is of no use in real combat and puts the fighter in great disadvantage. Even if you are a fucking übermensch berserker dūnyain warrior-mage you will be cut down by a filthy peasant with a scythe before you can unsheathe your blade.

It is not only a Bakker thing indeed, Martin does the same with Jon Snow (although in the series Jon carries Longclaw correctly, R'hllor be praised for that) and Sapkowski with Geralt of Rivia (the games of the Witcher repeat the iconic mistake).
Who was the first that wrote this shit of swords on the back? I don't know but I hope that the sranc will have his ass.

This is fucking ridiculous.

(http://www.swords-and-more.com/shop1/images/7129_600.jpg)

Some videos about the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMLrKInT8g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQBfNoi28Z4&t=731s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocQ_DZVAU0

Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Quinthane on September 01, 2017, 08:54:46 pm
I have a similar issue with the rank impossibility of dangling someone over the ledge of a cliff. No matter how strong especially if the person being dangled is roughly the same weight as the dangler the physics won't allow for such a thing.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 01, 2017, 09:10:42 pm
I have a similar issue with the rank impossibility of dangling someone over the ledge of a cliff. No matter how strong especially if the person being dangled is roughly the same weight as the dangler the physics won't allow for such a thing.

Yes, when I read it I have an intense WTF feeling that nearly ruined the scene for me too.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: TaoHorror on September 01, 2017, 09:31:46 pm
Interesting point on the sword on the back thing, never thought about it. Guess he needs his hands for sorcery more than the sword? Or simply not considered by the writer.

What pisses me off is this notion that dragons are "bad" ... everyone knows they're great at kids parties, offering free rides, blowing up balloons and certainly don't sport the very bad manners of eating people.
Title: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 01, 2017, 10:33:50 pm
Interesting point on the sword on the back thing, never thought about it. Guess he needs his hands for sorcery more than the sword? Or simply not considered by the writer.

The later, IMHO. The sword (in a scabbard) was always carried strapped on the hip in real life. And this is the proper way to carry it even if you have decapitants on the belt.
Probably the first writer who put a sword on the back of his hero did not have a sword in his hands in his entire life but now it has become a genre cliche.

There is a lot of shit in the fantasy and "historical" novels about the improper use of arms and armor, like wielding a sword against full plate armor knights and chopping them into pieces. Pretty impossible thing to do (even for Conan the barbarian). The way to fight with sword against knights in full armor is not slashing and cutting (because it has no effect), but use the technics of grappling and halfswording and try to use the point of the sword in the gaps of the armor, etc.
Another crappy example is the extended use of ridiculous overweighted and oversized maces (like Gendry in last GOT season) when the real ones are light and small.
And another one: a knight in full plate armor with a shield in a battle. Why are you using a shield if you have full plate armor protection?
Those things totally ruin a scene for me.

It is very easy for a writer just read a little about warfare and combat technics in the Middle Ages to avoid this bullshit that destroys the suspension of disbelief.
I myself have real swords and real armor and I know what it is possible and impossible to do with them, an author (a writer or an illustrator) can easily obtain both too and so learn from direct experience. With that he could do a more consistent work later but it seems that nobody does that.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 02, 2017, 06:41:58 am
The hilt of a sword throughout the entire series is universally referred to as the pommel, which I think is meant to be the part at the bottom.

Been happening since TDTCB, Enshoiya has a long "pommel" when it's clearly a long hilt, like a katana. I thought it was a one off but it seems to be a conscious decision.

Then the antique Cūnuroi swords are referred to as without hilts, and triangular blades. If these are based on Bronze Age swords the triangular blade makes a lot of sense, but it would be a lack of crossguard that makes them antique.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 02, 2017, 07:06:49 am
Yeah. The pommel is just the end of a hilt, and it can have several forms.
A sword without hilt makes no sense at all.

(https://seanmay.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/parts-of-a-sword.png?w=570)

Pommels:
(http://www.swordforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54725&stc=1&d=1153749328)

I hate katanas by the way. I would prefer an Enshoiya like this kriegmesser made by Albion Swords:

(https://www.albion-swords.com/images/swords/albion/nextGen/knecht-mark-II/smKnecht-mark-II.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Duskweaver on September 02, 2017, 07:33:04 pm
triangular blades.
I still wonder if Bakker meant triangular like an akinakes, or triangular in cross-section?

And, yeah, fantasy authors saying "without a hilt" when they mean "without a crossguard" annoys me too.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 02, 2017, 08:57:41 pm
I thought it might refer to the blade. They're meant to be antique so I guess the design was based on Bronze Age weaponry.

This is what I imagine the hiltless, triangular Cūnuroi blades to be like.

(http://antiquities.co.uk/media/com_eshop/products/resized/image_58e5198f7a05f_Luristan%20bronze%20sword-1-cr-800x800.jpg)

Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 02, 2017, 09:46:23 pm
+1. I've always thought that the Nonmen ancient swords were similar to that.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: themerchant on September 03, 2017, 02:25:30 am
Anomander Rake is another with the sword on his back. Probably Elric's as well.

That's why you bring a knife. Or Sharpened knitting needle.
Title: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 03, 2017, 07:04:47 am
If Elric carries the sword in that way, maybe he was the first in doing so, I don't remember now. But I've done a quick research in google images and the illustrations depicted him with the scabbard strapped on the hip.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Quinthane on September 03, 2017, 07:40:16 am
For me the most egregious mistake made in the genre is the use of the hooded cloak. Especially as it pertains to any person be it a Warrior or assassin. You know, someone who is interested in keeping clean sightlines, being able to hear unobstructed not to mention someone wanting to blend then because nothing makes you stand out more than shrouding your face in darkness.
Don't get me wrong as an illustrator they are wonderful for coolness and dramatic badass-wry. But for practical purposes they suck.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 03, 2017, 08:24:34 am
Totally agreed.
That is one of my top genre fails.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 03, 2017, 01:35:45 pm
I do however think Bakker has a far better grasp of armour than many other fantasy others. I much prefer scale/mail than suits of armour.

I really liked the lore of the Emiorali, or Bronzemen and imagined them to wear something like this:

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/a8/f8/f2a8f84339e3b158d2ec5458364e88d7--mycenaean-minoan.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c1/c5/98/c1c59830f03e43495665d47f6bf9d99e--bronze-age-military-history.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 03, 2017, 08:01:19 pm
There is just not enough Bronze Age fantasy.

I really liked the lore of the Emiorali, or Bronzemen and imagined them to wear something like this:

...

Love it.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 03, 2017, 09:18:11 pm
There is just not enough Bronze Age fantasy.

Totally true.
A thing that I specially love about earwan ancient history, be Kiraneas, or Nonmen, or Kunuiri, is their bronze age flavor.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on September 06, 2017, 01:03:36 pm
Even if you are a fucking übermensch berserker dūnyain warrior-mage you will be cut down by a filthy peasant with a scythe before you can unsheathe your blade.
I don't know, if there is anyone I'd forgive for this, it'd be Kellhus or a Dunyain. Most Dunyain don't need a sword to kill a filthy peasant with a scythe anyway. I need to recheck the scene where he uses it (like once) in TUC, but I don't think he had any issues actually getting it out.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 06, 2017, 01:13:35 pm
Look at the videos, in a combat situation you cannot unsheathe your sword quickly enough if you carries on the back (and even if you can it is not an easy thing to do, I have prove it myself). If you're fighting you want have your weapons ready to use. It's a question of economy of movements. If you can use 1 second you don't want to use 5.
In short, having a sword in the back is dumb, having it in the hip is smart. If a dūnyain is indeed smart he will carry a sword on the hip, where he can use it quickly and deadly.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on September 06, 2017, 02:01:37 pm
Look at the videos, in a combat situation you cannot unsheathe your sword quickly enough if you carries on the back (and even if you can it is not an easy thing to do, I have prove it myself). If you're fighting you want have your weapons ready to use. It's a question of economy of movements. If you can use 1 second you don't want to use 5.
In short, having a sword in the back is dumb, having it in the hip is smart. If a dūnyain is indeed smart he will carry a sword on the hip, where he can use it quickly and deadly.
I mean, the videos show a human unable to do it with much dexterity. Like I said, if there is anyone I'd forgive this for, it'd be a Dunyain. Point being, it never hampers Kellhus when he needs to use it in that manner (and in reflection, I can't think of him using the sword in actual combat, just against a disabled Inchoroi, unless there are more descriptions from TPON). Heck, for all we know, the reason he wears it like that is to look cool, to win people over more.

The economy of movements only matters if it actually comes into play at any point. Seeing as it literally never does (that I recall), then the possible idea of looking could could outweigh it.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 06, 2017, 06:32:29 pm
Obviously the skin-spies with their cartilaginous "skeleton" could unsheathe their swords from the back, but would they? They would be faster to unsheathe from the hip in any case.

And there is the problem to sheath the sword again, nearly impossible if you have the scabbard fixed on the shoulder. And a very ridiculous thing to watch.

I don't remember a description of how Kellhus carried his sword in the first book. When did Bakker succumb to the stupid cliché?
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 06, 2017, 06:41:10 pm
Right from the get-go by your count, Woden. Kellhus has his sword over his shoulder as far back TDTCB - though we could argue on Bakker's behalf that the sword is made of the second or third best steel in Earwa and therefore may have lighter weight properties. Still as likely to embedded your sword in your cerebellum as you are to attack ;).

Also, the Skin-Spies are best imagined as horrifying octopus when they let go, a la Sarcellus the Second in TWP and Soma in WLW. Because their only bones are those in their false faces, they are allowed to toss their limbs around in... Silent Hill-type ways at the very least.

And very fast...
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 06, 2017, 06:59:14 pm
Thanks for the info, Madness.

But the weight of the blade is not the most relevant question in the best way to unsheathe it. It will always be faster doing so from the hip.

Anyway, a longsword doesn't have a cumbersome weight in any case, I have two of them and their weight is about 1,5 kg. And a real two-handed sword (a zweihander) could weight about 2-3 kg - you can see beautiful examples in the web of Albion Swords, my favorite ones.
The zweihander was not usually carried on the hip in a scabbard in normal life because it was too long and it was just carried to be used - be in battle or single combat.




Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 06, 2017, 07:17:49 pm
If you consider the arm and the torso, their is a more or less ideal way to carry and unsheathe a sword.

And thank you. I'm a strange individual but carrying a sheath into battle is not recognized enough in fiction. I happen to think a short about someone losing their sheath in battle and then having to backtrack would be great. Like... I killed them there, and them there...
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 06, 2017, 07:32:05 pm
Focusing in XVth century (when the longer swords were specially in use), in battle if your sword is your main weapon and not a side arm you can carry it without scabbard to avoid the problem that you mention. The great zeihander can be carried in your arms leaning on the shoulder as you would carry a halberd, a longsword can be carried that way too. And an average arming sword (one-handed) just in your hand.

(https://www.albion-swords.com/images/swords/albion/nextGen/maximilian/landesknecht-Doppelsoldner.jpg)

But we must not forget that swords in that period were usually side arms, the main weapons could be a pike or a bow for common soldiers.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ea/5a/02/ea5a0285ecbfb99efd6300b6c017a21b--medieval-archer-longbow.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 06, 2017, 07:40:35 pm
Funny as I see that as so much more badass than a gun/sword on your back.

He looks confident, even if he might get cut down soon ;).
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 06, 2017, 07:49:59 pm
The Landsknecht were truly badasses.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Landsknechte.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d5/48/be/d548bee4e71c5898ef3b0e1956b3028b--italian-renaissance-renaissance-art.jpg)

See how they carry the zeihander. And they carry a katzbalger (or a messer) in the hip.

But my favorite ones are the knights or man-at-arms with gothic armor (I have one suit, lol).

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/ab/3c/ceab3c77007d7099323440617f78f0d5--armor-clothing-medieval-armor.jpg)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 06, 2017, 07:56:27 pm
You're basically a time period tank ;).

And I do mean analogous to the armoured vehicle in the modern world.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: citizensnips on September 06, 2017, 08:00:06 pm
Wait, how do the Dūnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dūnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation. 
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: MSJ on September 06, 2017, 08:11:03 pm
Quote from:  citizensnips
Wait, how do the Dūnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dūnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation.

Bakker said in the Q&A after TGO that he had a whole section about the ins and outs of the Dunyain that he never did put in the books or get into because it's not part of the story. Ishual was self sufficient and that's all you need to know really.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: TaoHorror on September 06, 2017, 09:35:06 pm
Which means we can make stuff up about it  :D
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 06, 2017, 09:38:34 pm
Even to the point that some of the Mutilated may have been seen in the opening of TDTCB, though I'll have to dig for that exact quote later.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on September 06, 2017, 09:52:26 pm
Wait, how do the Dūnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dūnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation.
Where does it discuss the idea that they made swords?
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: MSJ on September 06, 2017, 11:54:34 pm
It doesn't. But, when Kellhus leaves Ishual he has a sword. And, in flashbacks they show their training in the yard with the old man. So, they've got swords. How many? Where from? Your guess as good as any. But, again,  Bakker said they were self sufficient.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Quinthane on September 07, 2017, 01:52:28 am
In the darkness that comes before Kellhus' battle with Mekertrig, it sez "dunyain steel".
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: citizensnips on September 07, 2017, 04:47:10 am
Quote from:  citizensnips
Wait, how do the Dūnyain even make their super awesome swords? Do they have their own super localized mining operation set up, or the most efficient recycling program in history?

I admit, every time I ask a question about the Dūnyain I think of 10 more about the logistics of their whole operation.

Bakker said in the Q&A after TGO that he had a whole section about the ins and outs of the Dunyain that he never did put in the books or get into because it's not part of the story. Ishual was self sufficient and that's all you need to know really.

Well, booooo. Most people on this board wonder about the real identity and meaning of various characters, I wonder "How do the Dunyain make candles?"

(Wait, scratch that, I just thought about it and now I don't want to know that answer)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: MSJ on September 07, 2017, 05:39:58 am
I wasnt meaning to ruin your spirits or theorizing, go for it. Its open to your own interpretation. I was just giving the answer he already have on the exact question. Well, I tried to find the link, but couldn't. :summon Madness:
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: citizensnips on September 07, 2017, 06:19:01 am
Oh no worries, you didn't ruin anything. It's nice to have somewhere to muse over these things.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Duskweaver on September 07, 2017, 11:20:26 am
"How do the Dunyain make candles?"
(Wait, scratch that, I just thought about it and now I don't want to know that answer)
... They keep bees, obviously.

Human tallow makes terrible candles, BTW. It's really not worth the effort.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on September 07, 2017, 12:21:32 pm
It doesn't. But, when Kellhus leaves Ishual he has a sword. And, in flashbacks they show their training in the yard with the old man. So, they've got swords. How many? Where from? Your guess as good as any. But, again,  Bakker said they were self sufficient.
Ah. Well, given there were a number of refugees directly from the Anasurimbor household, I think it stands to reason the Dunyain might have managed to salvage possibly enscrolled weaponry from them or the armory. Would be less of a stretch than forging.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: MSJ on September 07, 2017, 12:24:54 pm
I agree. On the thought that their enscrolled weaponry, I thought the same when Kellhus uses Enshoiya to make Malowebi demon/ciphrang and preserve the head. Had to be.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: TaoHorror on September 07, 2017, 01:23:12 pm
"How do the Dunyain make candles?"
(Wait, scratch that, I just thought about it and now I don't want to know that answer)
... They keep bees, obviously.

Human tallow makes terrible candles, BTW. It's really not worth the effort.

And you know this, how? LOL

I'm sure it's said somewhere, but the tunnels of Ishual - those made by non-men, Dunyain or both? Even for 2,000 years, that would require serious labor.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: themerchant on September 07, 2017, 01:58:57 pm
Dunyain made them the tunnels follow some mathematical formula.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 08, 2017, 02:14:44 am
Even to the point that some of the Mutilated may have been seen in the opening of TDTCB, though I'll have to dig for that exact quote later.

Did we see any of the Mutilated in previous books?

Not that I recall, no. I feel muddy on this simply because the original beginning of TDTCB featured a lot more facetime with the brethren.

There are also quotes regarding the bee-keeping, the self-sufficiency, and tunnels... but I'll have to do that later...
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Woden on September 08, 2017, 10:13:41 am
It doesn't. But, when Kellhus leaves Ishual he has a sword. And, in flashbacks they show their training in the yard with the old man. So, they've got swords. How many? Where from? Your guess as good as any. But, again,  Bakker said they were self sufficient.
Ah. Well, given there were a number of refugees directly from the Anasurimbor household, I think it stands to reason the Dunyain might have managed to salvage possibly enscrolled weaponry from them or the armory. Would be less of a stretch than forging.

I don't remember any survivor from the Anasurimbor household when the first dūnyain came (in the prologue of TDTCB). Only the Anasurimbor boy. But maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway it's very difficult to maintain an isolated community like Ishual in full splendor if the Dūnyain were few. I'm assuming that they were like a big community of monks, like some monasteries in Middle Ages.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on September 08, 2017, 12:25:52 pm
It doesn't. But, when Kellhus leaves Ishual he has a sword. And, in flashbacks they show their training in the yard with the old man. So, they've got swords. How many? Where from? Your guess as good as any. But, again,  Bakker said they were self sufficient.
Ah. Well, given there were a number of refugees directly from the Anasurimbor household, I think it stands to reason the Dunyain might have managed to salvage possibly enscrolled weaponry from them or the armory. Would be less of a stretch than forging.

I don't remember any survivor from the Anasurimbor household when the first dūnyain came (in the prologue of TDTCB). Only the Anasurimbor boy. But maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway it's very difficult to maintain an isolated community like Ishual in full splendor if the Dūnyain were few. I'm assuming that they were like a big community of monks, like some monasteries in Middle Ages.
Not survivors, but the possessions of the deceased refugees. The household did make it to Ishual before the plague killed them all.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Madness on September 08, 2017, 03:50:59 pm
Even to the point that some of the Mutilated may have been seen in the opening of TDTCB, though I'll have to dig for that exact quote later.

Did we see any of the Mutilated in previous books?

Not that I recall, no. I feel muddy on this simply because the original beginning of TDTCB featured a lot more facetime with the brethren.

There are also quotes regarding the bee-keeping, the self-sufficiency, and tunnels... but I'll have to do that later...

In earlier versions of TDTCB I actually explain the logistics of Ishual, the division of agricultural labour among the Dunyain, and so on. But once I realized just how big the info mountain the reader need to climb was, I began ripping out all nonessential details. By time Akka and Mimara reach Ishual...

I feel like there's another referencing "bee-keeping" specifically...

And I know there's one about tunnels...
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: JerakoKayne on September 10, 2017, 03:15:31 am
My annoyances with the story tend to be minor continuity stuff, which in retrospect is usually something I missed, or at least misunderstood. As vague as his writing is, Bakker's consistency seems for the most part to be quite solid.

An example is Saccarees being described in TUC as the youngest Grandmaster the Mandate ever had. Kinda makes me roll my eyes because the Mandate leadership didn't seem to have such central leadership. They were ruled by council in the Quorum. Unless Achamian's musings about being "de facto" GM in TWP actually count somehow, due to his proximity to the events, Saccarees is pretty much the only GM the Mandate ever had, let alone the youngest.

But as I said, these are petty grievances, mostly.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Redeagl on September 10, 2017, 05:48:54 am
My annoyances with the story tend to be minor continuity stuff, which in retrospect is usually something I missed, or at least misunderstood. As vague as his writing is, Bakker's consistency seems for the most part to be quite solid.

An example is Saccarees being described in TUC as the youngest Grandmaster the Mandate ever had. Kinda makes me roll my eyes because the Mandate leadership didn't seem to have such central leadership. They were ruled by council in the Quorum. Unless Achamian's musings about being "de facto" GM in TWP actually count somehow, due to his proximity to the events, Saccarees is pretty much the only GM the Mandate ever had, let alone the youngest.

But as I said, these are petty grievances, mostly.
Well, it does still make him the youngest Grandmaster.  The oldest too :P.  That's a pretty funny mistake really.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on September 13, 2017, 03:48:16 pm
Ingraul is listed in both glossaries as as Thunyeri Sranc March but in TUC they are incorrectly referred to as Tydonni.

They still wear they're characteristic black mail, but seem to have changed nationality.

Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: citizensnips on October 06, 2017, 03:57:33 pm
Achamian is mentioned as being the only known Wizard, a sorcerer without a School. What about Pafaras the captain of the Stone Hags? Apparently he was scourged from the Mysunsai and run off into the wilderness. And he was specifically outlawed by the Empire so it's not like his continued existence was unknown. Wouldn't he fit the criteria?
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Sausuna on October 06, 2017, 04:14:20 pm
Achamian is mentioned as being the only known Wizard, a sorcerer without a School. What about Pafaras the captain of the Stone Hags? Apparently he was scourged from the Mysunsai and run off into the wilderness. And he was specifically outlawed by the Empire so it's not like his continued existence was unknown. Wouldn't he fit the criteria?
Well, isn't a lot of what's said about Pafaras presented as rumor? Further, I'm not sure it is clear his school had repudiated him. Not that I recall all the details off-hand. Perhaps he was an awkward member they told to hang in the wild.

But you might be right.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on October 07, 2017, 08:44:54 pm
He's referred to as a Breacher as well. While he's technically associated with the Mysunsai, the same could be said of Achamian and the Mandate. They have both repudiated their respective Schools.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Simas Polchias on April 15, 2018, 06:39:17 pm
I do however think Bakker has a far better grasp of armour than many other fantasy others. I much prefer scale/mail than suits of armour.

I really liked the lore of the Emiorali, or Bronzemen and imagined them to wear something like this:

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/a8/f8/f2a8f84339e3b158d2ec5458364e88d7--mycenaean-minoan.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c1/c5/98/c1c59830f03e43495665d47f6bf9d99e--bronze-age-military-history.jpg)
Oh my god. A real life Dalek!
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Frail on April 27, 2018, 04:37:47 am
Achamian is mentioned as being the only known Wizard, a sorcerer without a School. What about Pafaras the captain of the Stone Hags? Apparently he was scourged from the Mysunsai and run off into the wilderness. And he was specifically outlawed by the Empire so it's not like his continued existence was unknown. Wouldn't he fit the criteria?

"The Wizard retraced his footsteps..." pretty sure before TGO and that 20 year gap he would have been the only notable one. Im assuming there were others if only in brief times or lower ranking sorcerers. Practically all of the Mysunsai are wizards in a sense.

Any times Akka is the "only" wizard post TTT is from or for Achamians POV.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on April 30, 2018, 06:17:50 pm
Achamian is mentioned as being the only known Wizard, a sorcerer without a School. What about Pafaras the captain of the Stone Hags? Apparently he was scourged from the Mysunsai and run off into the wilderness. And he was specifically outlawed by the Empire so it's not like his continued existence was unknown. Wouldn't he fit the criteria?

You are right, good catch!

It seems like Pafaras isn't "special" enough to count as a Wizard by the people of the Three Seas, poor guy. ;)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wilshire on April 30, 2018, 07:43:34 pm
"The Wizard retraced his footsteps..."
"Retracing his bloody footsteps, the Wizard limped onward" (might be "on" not "onward" cant remember)
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wolfdrop on May 14, 2018, 08:45:47 pm
In that final line of TTT, is this the first time we see Wizard capitalised as a title?

I’m pretty sure it was just “wizard” in general before. If so that’s some nice foreshadowing for TAE. From that moment he stopped being the Holy Tutor and become the Wizard.
Title: Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
Post by: Wilshire on May 15, 2018, 01:36:11 pm
I think is. Its part of what makes that line so powerful - in an instant he became the Wizard, a class unto himself.