The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => General Q&A => Topic started by: ThoughtsOfThelli on March 10, 2018, 10:06:05 pm

Title: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on March 10, 2018, 10:06:05 pm
From the TUC glossary,
"Ishterebinth" entry:
Quote
This (likely apocryphal) prophecy of competition between Ishoriöl and Siöl did not come to pass until the famed marriage of Queen Tsinirū (one of the most gifted of the Quyil) with Sin'niroiha, the Nonman King of Nihrimsūl, the ancient rival of Kū'jara-Kinmoi.
"Nihrimsūl" entry:
Quote
What little is known regarding Nihrimsūl comes refracted through the lens of Ishoriöl, which though unified with Nihrimsūl through the marriage of Sin'niroiha and Tsinirū, remained thoroughly Tsonic in custom and outlook.
"Sin'niroiha" entry:
Quote
Nonman King of Nihrimsūl, initially, and thence Ishoriöl through his marriage to the sorceress Tsinirū, who would bear him Nil'giccas, his only son, and at long last unite all Mansions under the Blood of Tsonos.

Can we thus conclude that Tsinirū was the queen of Ishoriöl in her own right before the marriage to Sin'niroiha? If so, that's a tantalizing bit of information...we know so little about the Cūnuroi women, let alone their role in society and whatnot. They're mostly notable just for the fact of their deaths, and bits like this just make me want to know more about some of these female characters that are mentioned here and there throughout the books.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: Wilshire on March 12, 2018, 02:51:29 pm
You're delving into the glossary entries are very interesting, keep at it :)

Quyil - a female nonman magi?

The way the entry is written, it could be interpreted that she was a Queen prior to her union with Sin'niroiha. Its very easy to assume otherwise given the setting but the Nonmen did always have strange customs ;) .
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on March 12, 2018, 03:40:34 pm
You're delving into the glossary entries are very interesting, keep at it :)

Thanks. :P "ThoughtsOfThelli muses about glossary details, Xth edition"...


Quyil - a female nonman magi?

I actually assumed that was a collective noun of some sort, but you might be right. Intriguing, wish someone would ask Bakker about some of these things I wonder about. ;)


The way the entry is written, it could be interpreted that she was a Queen prior to her union with Sin'niroiha. Its very easy to assume otherwise given the setting but the Nonmen did always have strange customs ;) .

It does seem to be the case, doesn't it? These sort of details just makes me want to know more, as I said in my previous post...
Also of note is the fact that Nil'giccas seems to have inherited his ability for sorcery from his mother (Sin'niroiha does not seem to be mentioned as being one of the Qūya, but I might have missed it?). Interesting in a series/universe where taking after one's father in looks and/or skills is most often the case.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: H on April 11, 2018, 02:19:36 pm
I actually assumed that was a collective noun of some sort, but you might be right. Intriguing, wish someone would ask Bakker about some of these things I wonder about.

Isn't the opposite as likely?  Quya is the group, a Quyil is one member?
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: Wilshire on April 11, 2018, 06:22:31 pm
I actually assumed that was a collective noun of some sort, but you might be right. Intriguing, wish someone would ask Bakker about some of these things I wonder about.

Isn't the opposite as likely?  Quya is the group, a Quyil is one member?

I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I'd say is that Quya is almost certainly the masculine noun that is both singular in plural.

My guess is that if it was something else, we'd have had references to "Quyas" or "Quyil" (or Quyari since the 'i' plural seems prevalent) at some point. Granted, most of the books we don't have multiple nonmen standing around to begin with, but certainly in TGO and TUC you think we've have at least on reference of a pluralized Quya. Given the absence of that, I think it far more likely that Quya/Quyil are gendered nouns.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: H on April 11, 2018, 07:34:03 pm
I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I'd say is that Quya is almost certainly the masculine noun that is both singular in plural.

My guess is that if it was something else, we'd have had references to "Quyas" or "Quyil" (or Quyari since the 'i' plural seems prevalent) at some point. Granted, most of the books we don't have multiple nonmen standing around to begin with, but certainly in TGO and TUC you think we've have at least on reference of a pluralized Quya. Given the absence of that, I think it far more likely that Quya/Quyil are gendered nouns.

Yeah, in usage it is almost certainly both a collective noun and a singular one.  The balance then falls to Quyil being female, although it is unfortunate we only have once instance to go on.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on April 11, 2018, 08:13:30 pm
Isn't the opposite as likely?  Quya is the group, a Quyil is one member?

Well, what I left implied was that my assumption wasn't all that smart. ;)


I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I'd say is that Quya is almost certainly the masculine noun that is both singular in plural.

My guess is that if it was something else, we'd have had references to "Quyas" or "Quyil" (or Quyari since the 'i' plural seems prevalent) at some point. Granted, most of the books we don't have multiple nonmen standing around to begin with, but certainly in TGO and TUC you think we've have at least on reference of a pluralized Quya. Given the absence of that, I think it far more likely that Quya/Quyil are gendered nouns.

I agree that Qūya does seem to be used in both singular and plural instances in the text. We do have multiple Nonman mages around in Ishterebinth in TGO and in Golgotterath in TUC and I definitely don't remember anything other than "Qūya" being used (that would have popped out to me when I was updating the character list in the wiki).


Yeah, in usage it is almost certainly both a collective noun and a singular one.  The balance then falls to Quyil being female, although it is unfortunate we only have once instance to go on.

Not sure about Quyil (Qūyil? those circumflex marks do tend to be left out quite often)... As you say, H, we only have the one case, which doesn't lend itself well to any definite conclusions. Tsinirū is also the only female Nonman that we know of that was a mage (none of the others named in the books seem to be mentioned as such), so there's not much to go on here unless a) it gets brought up again in more detail in TNG (unlikely) and/or b) someone asks Bakker directly about it.
Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: mostly.harmless on April 15, 2018, 01:51:44 pm
I'm glad someone has time to connect these dots, very interesting.
So much is still unknown.

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Title: Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
Post by: themerchant on September 26, 2018, 08:54:25 am
Yes she is a sorceror and it was the artisan that got them together and that's the first time he appears in history gifting the day lantern which in some way causes the coming together of the two mansions.