The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 28, 2018, 06:56:50 pm

Title: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 28, 2018, 06:56:50 pm
Sister thread to this one (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2698.0). Thinking about the POVs we wish to see next made me start thinking about all of those we wish we could have had but never did.

I'm not making this a poll because I figure opinions have the potentially to vary immensely here. The criteria I'm establishing here are: a) characters that were alive at the beginning of the series and are currently confirmed as being dead (with little or no possibility of showing up as "secondary POVs" in a flashback, Dream, etc.) and b) never had a single section from their POV in any of the 7 books of the series. (Okay, I'll make exceptions for historical, long-dead characters if any of those are at the top of your lists, but I really didn't want this thread to be all about those.)
So, whose POV(s) would you have loved to see?


I think everyone knows who I'm going to pick - yes, I wish we could have had a Thelli POV. She was already such an interesting character to me even without one, I'd have loved to have a look into...the thoughts of Thelli, you might say. ;) And that's all I'll say on this here, because trust me, you'll get tired of me going on about Thelli when we get to TAE on the reread.
Someone else whose POV I'd have liked to see is Maithanet. Of course we didn't get one in PON for obvious reasons, but I'd have liked to get a window into his mind in TAE, when we were already well aware of who he was. We never got a true feeling of his true personality - was he similar to Kaytas and Serwa, resigned to acting like a reliable tool for his father's (and later his half-brother's) plans? Did he have an agenda of his own we never knew about? These are not things we could have learned from Esmenet or Kelmomas' POVs, and sadly now we'll never know.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: BeardFisher-King on May 28, 2018, 09:31:53 pm
I would have liked a Kaytas POV, but maybe we'll get one in the "next series" (assuming I should live so long.... 😕)
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: BeardFisher-King on May 28, 2018, 10:08:56 pm
Thelli, I forgot: We needed a Nurbanu Ze POV during the Great Ordeal's Sranc-induced mass hysteria!

Note to self: fanfic featuring Nurbanu Ze, who is clearly a buddy of Zreius enghs. Nurbanu Joe + Zorro = kick-ass comedy!
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 28, 2018, 10:26:15 pm
I would have liked a Kaytas POV, but maybe we'll get one in the "next series" (assuming I should live so long.... 😕)

You'll probably still have your chance, there's a decent likelihood Kaytas survived and was teleported away by Saccarees or something (don't get me started on how lucky that guy is compared to most of his relatives...). To me, he doesn't even belong in this category because I'm like 90% sure he's alive (might still not have a POV, though).

Don't despair, I don't think Bakker will take so long to publish the next book that you'll die in the meantime. Stay positive. ;) After all (checking wikipedia for dates) the biggest gap between TSA books was 5 years. People (including me) have been waiting for George R. R. Martin's The Winds of Winter for almost 7 years now.



Thelli, I forgot: We needed a Nurbanu Z POV during the Great Ordeal's Sranc-induced mass hysteria!

Note to self: fanfic featuring Nurbanu Z, who is clearly a buddy of Zreius enghs. Nurbanu Joe + Zorro = kick-ass comedy!

How did I even forget him? :o
I'd be also curious to know how he ended up being adopted by Soter, of all people. (I'm assuming it happened sometime during the Unification Wars.) That man never seemed like the fatherly type at all (even with the, you know, lack of actual decent parents in this series), I wonder what made Kellhus think he was the best person for adopting this young Jekki boy. (Not to mention...what happened to Ze's biological family?)

The grand Nurbanu Joe + Zorro team up needs to be a thing! :)
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: TaoHorror on May 28, 2018, 10:29:17 pm
Not exactly in topic, but I so would have liked to have "witnessed" the great TUC/Dunyain war, that would've been a real treat. That little memory of an event bested the great wars before and the first apocalypse itself, which is no small feat given how epic those were. Watching godzilla stomp out the mice is ... boring. Seeing such bad-asses go toe to toe as the non-men vs Inchoroi and then the TUC vs Dunyain is the stuff!
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 28, 2018, 10:43:46 pm
Not exactly in topic, but I so would have liked to have "witnessed" the great TUC/Dunyain war, that would've been a real treat. That little memory of an event bested the great wars before and the first apocalypse itself, which is no small feat given how epic those were. Watching godzilla stomp out the mice is ... boring. Seeing such bad-asses go toe to toe as the non-men vs Inchoroi and then the TUC vs Dunyain is the stuff!

Could technically be in topic if you want a POV from that one dead Mutilated. Or Shae, assuming he is not the Mutilated (and yes, he was a POV in a short story, but one set 3000 years before TAE, it can count). Or one of those Qya who are either unnamed or are briefly named in TUC before they die. Or all of the above. ;)

Anyway, I second that, it would be pretty interesting to see not only the fall of Ishul (from a POV other than Koringhus, preferably someone from the Consult, like one of the aforementioned Qya) but the manipulation of the Consult's inner circle by the Mutilated. Come to think of it, we only ever saw Dnyain do their whole manipulation game with humans. Who knows how it would have gone down with Inchoroi and Qya...
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: TLEILAXU on May 29, 2018, 12:02:34 am
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 29, 2018, 12:22:08 am
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: TLEILAXU on May 29, 2018, 06:25:35 pm
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
Ah Sos-Praniura must've been a Nonman.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 29, 2018, 06:32:32 pm
Did we actually ever get a Cet'ingira POV? I feel like we've always met him through other characters.
Also, a Sos-Praniura POV would've been cool too.

Actually, I don't think we did... Cet'ingira/Mekeritrig was in The False Sun, but I think it was all told either from Shae's POV or the omniscient POV. Then, in the series proper, we see him through Kellhus' POV in TDTCB, in Akka and Nautzera's Dreams via Akka's POV and in TUC from Malowebi's POV (and omniscient too, I think?). I don't think I'm forgetting any of his appearances, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, they're both good options. I would also be curious to see how Sos-Praniura lived so long if he was apparently a human. The same way as Shae, I'd guess, but he actually comes out and fights the Ordeal (and gets killed), while Shae's little immortality trick didn't exactly make him very mobile...
Ah Sos-Praniura must've been a Nonman.

Eventually came to this conclusion as well following a Quorum conversation with H earlier today. The problem here was that we didn't have enough information to tell pre-TUC, so whoever originally created that wiki page for him must have assumed he was human. (Which was a fair assumption until we learned he was still alive.)
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: H on May 30, 2018, 11:25:42 am
A Sos-Praniura POV would have been great.  Honestly, a non-gibbering Aurax POV would have been great too.  Pretty much, any additional Consult POV would have been outstanding.  A definite missed opportunity, given how good Aurang's POV moments are.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 30, 2018, 12:54:03 pm
A Sos-Praniura POV would have been great.  Honestly, a non-gibbering Aurax POV would have been great too.  Pretty much, any additional Consult POV would have been outstanding.  A definite missed opportunity, given how good Aurang's POV moments are.

It certainly would have, you'd think a (Non)man referred to as the "Lord-of-Poisons" would have a fascinating backstory. One wonders if he was the one to supply Iva with the necessary poison to fake Nau-Cayti's death. It seems likely to me...
Same goes for Aurax, though I'm still unsure about how long he has been in his meek, gibbering state. Like I told TLEILAXU in the Quorum a few days ago, I find it hard to believe that he became that way solely because of the Mutilated's interference. I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, but the Mutilated have been around for probably less than a decade. That's a very short period of time for extremely long-lived, potential immortal beings such as the Inchoroi. My guess is that he started declining a few centuries/millennia back and the Mutilated just completed the process, as it were. So an Aurax POV in the main series might have been unlikely anyway (maybe we could still get one in a future Atrocity Tale?).
Definitely a missed opportunity, even not counting Aurax, you'd have Shae (we did get his POV in The False Sun, but I meant "modern-day" Shae), Mekeritrig, Sos-Praniura...even one of the other Qya we know little or nothing about would have been great (even if Nonman POVs can be quite confusing, considering Cinial'jin...but then again, the Nonmen working for the Consult would probably be in a somewhat more lucid state due to exposure to the Inverse Fire).
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: MSJ on May 30, 2018, 01:03:30 pm
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I thought that Aurax was in the state he was because of Aurang's death. To lose the only other member of your race, let alone your twin, could do that to one.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: H on May 30, 2018, 01:36:35 pm
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I thought that Aurax was in the state he was because of Aurang's death. To lose the only other member of your race, let alone your twin, could do that to one.

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: MSJ on May 30, 2018, 01:46:39 pm
Quote from:  H
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

Hopefully we'll get his POV or at least see him in TNG and then we could determine if Aurang's death is what spurred his....gibbering.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: H on May 30, 2018, 02:13:32 pm
Quote from:  H
Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

Hopefully we'll get his POV or at least see him in TNG and then we could determine if Aurang's death is what spurred his....gibbering.

Yeah, possibly, yet I feel that Bakker was trying to make the point that the new (the Mutilated) have superseded the old (Shae and the Inchoroi).  Happy to be wrong though...
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 30, 2018, 02:47:23 pm
Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I thought that Aurax was in the state he was because of Aurang's death. To lose the only other member of your race, let alone your twin, could do that to one.

How didn't I even consider that possibility...poor Aurax, he truly is alone now.


Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to know.  That is plausible though, that they were somehow symbiotically linked or something too.  That's part of the tragedy of just tossing him away though, even if that is what the narrative role is...

Also a possibility, and I never thought I'd actually feel sad over an Inchoroi, but it is indeed tragic.


Yeah, possibly, yet I feel that Bakker was trying to make the point that the new (the Mutilated) have superseded the old (Shae and the Inchoroi).  Happy to be wrong though...

I agree. Unfortunately for us, I don't think we'll ever get an Aurax POV unless it's in an Atrocity Tale or something.
There's still a (small) chance for Shae if the "Shae is the Mutilated" theory is true, not so much for Aurax, I think.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: TheCulminatingApe on May 30, 2018, 06:51:31 pm
Skauras would have been good.  Just a couple of pages, so that we get a Fanim perspective.  It would be nice to see him interact with Mallahet, if only briefly
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 30, 2018, 06:58:48 pm
Skauras would have been good.  Just a couple of pages, so that we get a Fanim perspective.  It would be nice to see him interact with Mallahet, if only briefly

I think we do get him as a POV, but only for a very short time (right before he dies, if I remember correctly?). Anyway, having more POV moments with him would have been great, and yes, missed opportunity there with Mallahet (probably because Bakker didn't want to give too much away?).
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: TheCulminatingApe on May 31, 2018, 07:49:08 pm
Skauras would have been good.  Just a couple of pages, so that we get a Fanim perspective.  It would be nice to see him interact with Mallahet, if only briefly

I think we do get him as a POV, but only for a very short time (right before he dies, if I remember correctly?). Anyway, having more POV moments with him would have been great, and yes, missed opportunity there with Mallahet (probably because Bakker didn't want to give too much away?).

Must have forgot that one  :(
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: ThoughtsOfThelli on May 31, 2018, 08:13:52 pm
Must have forgot that one  :(

I almost did, I very vaguely remembered something like that happening and had to check. It was nowhere near enough, he was a great character.
Title: Re: Which character(s) POV(s) do you wish we could have had?
Post by: Swayal Serpent on June 01, 2018, 07:39:49 am
We definitely did get a short Skauras POV, and your right, it wasn't nearly enough! His inner monologue was pretty interesting, especially considering he knew he was about to die. As for a POV we never got, i agree 100 percent that Maithanet would have been awesome. Other than him, Kosoter would have been awesome. I'd love to see what's going on in his head

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