The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: Jabberwock03 on August 14, 2018, 02:23:24 pm

Title: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Jabberwock03 on August 14, 2018, 02:23:24 pm
Hi guys,

I was wondering, on what other support would you like to see The Second Apocalypse adapted (TV show, comics, video game)?

From what I understood, the TV show will never happen (and I can't really be sad about that, not sure you can adapte something that heavy on TV).

Personnaly I would love to see the books adapted in an Animé format (as a netflix original for example, they do a good job at respecting the original content IMO), with short seasons of 12/13 episodes. For me, this format would allow the best possibilities for the philosophical parts (narative internal thoughts are better done in animés than series), and visual part (landscap, magic, gore, etc).

I would also like a video game of those book, specifically some sort of Total War in Earwa. I want my Ordeal to fight countless srancs!

And you, what do you imagine? Be creative!

P.S. Sorry if the topic already exist, I did search the forum but didn't found anything except for TV show.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TLEILAXU on August 14, 2018, 02:31:17 pm
Hi guys,

I was wondering, on what other support would you like to see The Second Apocalypse adapted (TV show, comics, video game)?

From what I understood, the TV show will never happen (and I can't really be sad about that, not sure you can adapte something that heavy on TV).

Personnaly I would love to see the books adapted in an Animé format (as a netflix original for example, they do a good job at respecting the original content IMO), with short seasons of 12/13 episodes. For me, this format would allow the best possibilities for the philosophical parts (narative internal thoughts are better done in animés than series), and visual part (landscap, magic, gore, etc).

I would also like a video game of those book, specifically some sort of Total War in Earwa. I want my Ordeal to fight countless srancs!

And you, what do you imagine? Be creative!

P.S. Sorry if the topic already exist, I did search the forum but didn't found anything except for TV show.
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art. 
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 14, 2018, 02:35:51 pm
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Jabberwock03 on August 14, 2018, 03:34:35 pm
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
Why not a comics about a scalper or something?
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 14, 2018, 04:09:52 pm
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TLEILAXU on August 14, 2018, 04:24:28 pm
Just having the book series is fine for me, but what it does need is more publicity and a broader audience (not that the books themselves should accommodate for this, they just need to be promoted more), and importantly, more fan-art.
I like it when I just need to quote someone and not bother with writing my views down! The books are enough for me, too.

Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
Why not a comics about a scalper or something?
I don't read enough to be familiar with various spin-offs, but I would be concerned that it would be a watered down version, or perhaps even a corruption, of the source material. Of course It'd be extremely cool to see e.g. the battle of Kiyuth on television, but on a whole I doubt they could stay true to the source material. Take e.g. Game of Thrones, I don't even watch it anymore because it's become so far removed from GURRM's books.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 14, 2018, 05:28:33 pm
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.

To the OP: Episodic TV ( like GoT ). I think cable tv has drawn amazing talent over the last decade and could pull it off nicely.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Jabberwock03 on August 14, 2018, 08:33:10 pm
Even if the book are enough for the main story, wouldn't you like to see a spinoff in another format?
As a general rule, I detest spin-offs. It they involve other authors, I don't acknowledge their existence altogether.

In my mind, it was obvious that Bakker would be at the story part of the new media.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 04:07:42 am
I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.
Theoretically, I agree. In practice, I got burned so often that a defense has formed.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 15, 2018, 10:58:44 am
I don't put restrictions on artistic expression. There have been several fine interpretations of art that are great. I judge the work for what it is without consulting crowd opinion and/or relationship to the original artist.
Theoretically, I agree. In practice, I got burned so often that a defense has formed.

I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 11:32:10 am
I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
There are correlations, though. For example, when a series starts to employ other authors than the original one(s), its quality suffers. I've seen it with "DragonLance" (important, because that series was way, way less than stellar to begin with), with many anthologies "in the world of" Tolkien, even with "The Wheel of Time". Granted, the last one was inevitable since the original author died before finishing the series. And I'm saying this while considering Brandon Sanderson a good writer and being very grateful for his work on "The Wheel of Time".

And then there are series that employ many writers from the start. To date, I haven't read anything good from that crowd.

It's not about not giving people a chance to create good works, it's about empirical evidence. Essentially, I agree with Martin here. It's better for writers to create their own worlds. Gives them more freedom, at the same time requiring more thought and discipline.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 15, 2018, 11:44:49 am
I hear ya - for every one that's a gem, there's probably 10 that are abominations. But that doesn't stop me from prohibiting myself from having expectations.
There are correlations, though. For example, when a series starts to employ other authors than the original one(s), its quality suffers. I've seen it with "DragonLance" (important, because that series was way, way less than stellar to begin with), with many anthologies "in the world of" Tolkien, even with "The Wheel of Time". Granted, the last one was inevitable since the original author died before finishing the series. And I'm saying this while considering Brandon Sanderson a good writer and being very grateful for his work on "The Wheel of Time".

And then there are series that employ many writers from the start. To date, I haven't read anything good from that crowd.

It's not about not giving people a chance to create good works, it's about empirical evidence. Essentially, I agree with Martin here. It's better for writers to create their own worlds. Gives them more freedom, at the same time requiring more thought and discipline.

I don't share your self imposed modeling of taste, I follow no rules, I don't resign myself to disappointment before reviewing the work - I'm open to anything, including another author jumping in to finish an author's work, not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 12:03:58 pm
not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.
That's why I can agree only in theory. It could, yes, but I have never seen that happen.

And it's not that I model my taste, I save my time. I'm really not able to read anything there is to read, so if there is little chance for something to be good, I avoid it. It's not strict, I can be persuaded to change my stance on a particular work. Like, I've finished the first book of "Codex Alera" even taking into account I initially judged it really boring. But I had some suspicions about the series getting more to my liking somewhere along the line, and MSJ was able to confirm them. But that's much more than I can say about spin-offs or sequels written by other writers.

I have another example. I love "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (it's a TV Show), so naturally, when Joss Whedon (the creator of Buffy) decided to continue it as a comic after the show was cancelled, I tried it out. And discovered that it doesn't work in another medium. Like, it had everything I enjoyed about a Joss Whedon's show, except it didn't work. Without living actors actually speaking all of his - usually great - lines they felt empty and artificial. There was nothing left where before I'd seen endearing characters. In this example, the original author remained, only the medium changed.

My problem is, I don't see positive examples, only negative ones.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 15, 2018, 12:59:13 pm
not only could the work not suffer, it could well soar.

My problem is, I don't see positive examples, only negative ones.

So you're perpetually disappointed with translations, I take it. Kaufmann's translations of Nietzsche into English were quite the read ( back in the day, appears he's under scrutiny as of late ) and there are examples of translations being "better" then the original work as the translator needs to be more than bi-lingual, but be a writer in their own right. So you don't read Russian translations of any American books? Recommend you consider as learning English is cool and all, but reading an American novel in English would not be the same as reading it as an American would. I'm not going to learn Russian so I can read Dostoevsky, it would not be the same as reading it as "a Russian". Translations are my best course. Learning Russian would be cool, don't get me wrong - but doing so to read Russian novels in the original Russian language would not proffer the experience of a native reading it - even if I mastered Russian, immersed myself in Russian culture, living in Russia for decades, I would not be reading it as a Russian.

I digress - well, if you're comfortable in your cage, I won't let you out.  ;)
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 01:38:33 pm
So you're perpetually disappointed with translations, I take it.
Oh yes, but for a different reason altogether. They are just bad. By which I mean factually wrong. By which I mean translating yes as no. And that's not even attempting to talk about style or actual artistic merit.

I can even write a prolonged example involving TTT's glossary to give you an idea just how bad it is.

So you don't read Russian translations of any American books?
Written in English, not necessarily American, yes. For 10 years now, I think.

Recommend you consider as learning English is cool and all, but reading an American novel in English would not be the same as reading it as an American would.
All people read differently and see different things. I assure you, your understanding of Dostoevsky would be sufficient if you read a - mythical - good translation. Yes, you would probably need to consult an encyclopedia more than once to understand some realities he's writing about, but there wouldn't be an inherent untraversable gap in your understanding if you actually want to understand.

Sure, you'll see some things differently considering your different cultural upbringing, but that doesn't diminish your understanding. If anything, it'll enrich mine if you share yours with me.

I would not be reading it as a Russian.
Russian, American, French, Chinese, I don't really see an intrinsic distinction. It's about learning and wanting to understand. Culture is a big thing, no question, but it doesn't strike me as even close to being that ingrained. Also, you should take into account the fact that Russia is pretty much a Western culture that's consuming American content for decades. Like, people here watch American TV, go to American movies, read American books - American content has a larger percentage of the market than whatever passes for modern Russian culture. In reality, Russian identity died with the Soviet Union. Right now it's a cadaver. It might not ever regenerate.

Sad, yes, but that's what I see.

That being said, some things are slowly becoming better. Very slowly.

I digress - well, if you're comfortable in your cage, I won't let you out.  ;)
I was kinda hoping you'll have some good examples. We don't have to agree about them, just something that worked for you.

I maintain that I'm not being adamantly dismissive. I simply employ a strategy (based on my experience) for getting enjoyable content. It's like choosing food, only for books.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 15, 2018, 01:58:28 pm
Quote from: SmilerLoki
I maintain that I'm not being adamantly dismissive. I simply employ a strategy (based on my experience) for getting enjoyable content. It's like choosing food, only for books.

Examples aren't the point, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just trying to understand you. I don't have one off hand, if I think of one later, I'll be sure to post it - but even if there hasn't been a single case where it has happened, it's still not the point - the whole point of this conversation is approach to new material/art. Are you open to anything goes ( I am ) or do you have preconceptions/prejudgment ( maybe you? )? It matters, imho - approach to the new/unknown impacts what we get out of our exposure to the new/unknown, do we allow ourselves to learn, to "update" our paradigm. I don't believe there is a perfect psychology - so there's a cost to my "openness" and I'm not proselyting anyone to be so themselves. I'm just trying to vet out your stance, to understand it. From what I can tell, your approach is for efficiency, to avoid wasting your time on something you think you won't like - as opposed to avoiding "being let down" by "bad" art.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 02:55:22 pm
Examples aren't the point, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just trying to understand you.
Same here! But I might be going slightly farther. I'm running my approach past you in hopes of getting valuable data. It might sound a bit utilitarian, but I sorely need an improvement to my system of getting content. So far I read about 10-20 books a year and drop about 10 more without finishing them, and it's not enough for me. I need probably twice as many to satisfy my needs. It's important to me since I'm a writer, too, and reading helps my writing. It puts me in the right mood.

And it's so rare for me to have an opportunity to talk about it that I couldn't resist holding onto this conversation. Like, this is why your example about not being able to read an American novel as an American is strange to me. It's actually much easier for me to speak with you about it than with people I interact with in Russian. You simply understand me faster (by an order of magnitude, no less). Around 10 posts, and we're already getting somewhere (or at least I am), while usually people just look at me uncomprehendingly at this point. Not to mention you know what "House of Leaves" is!

So, um, sorry for being verbose. And I deeply appreciate your time!

Are you open to anything goes ( I am ) or do you have preconceptions/prejudgment ( maybe you? )?
You got it right below, it's really not on this level of abstraction, but more specific. It's not that I would be contrary to new art or concepts, it's just I seek enjoyment first and foremost. It is connected, though. I have somewhat high standards, both because I've consumed a lot of content and because I'm a writer myself. It does clash with the fact that I basically like YA fiction or might exhibit idiosyncratic tastes (I was watching "Miraculous Ladybug" while reading "Echopraxia" and loved both; this is not a joke). But the fact is, I've also found that authors building on the work of others directly (instead of indirectly, i.e. by being inspired) are less competent. And less ambitious, which is also important for writing an interesting story.

That being said, I can tell, with reasonable amount of certainty, that something I've started to read is good only around 25% mark. Unfortunately, many books are hard to get into, and I often find myself stuck for days on first chapters. It just isn't at all constructive, and so I developed my system in part to avoid that exact situation. For example, I've read 4 chapters of "The Three-Body Problem", and they were not enjoyable, but I can't say yet whether the book is to my liking or not. But I'm also unable to continue reading it, which was established in multiple attempts at reading sessions. Obviously, it took time, and, just as obviously, hasn't produced a favorable result.

So, in theory I'm open to anything new as far as content goes, but in practice I have very real constraints dictated by me being a human with limited time and abilities. What I'm talking about is not a fundamental thing, but essentially what science was first called to do - a way of producing better results based on past experiences (or experiments). When we're talking fundamentals, I actively want to find something that would allow me to update my paradigm! In fact, that's what I'm trying to do by having this discussion.

The problem is, unfiltered input doesn't seem to produce good enough results for me, while filtered satisfies 50% of my reading needs. I'm actively seeking a way to increase that number.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on August 15, 2018, 05:18:12 pm
Culture is a big thing, no question, but it doesn't strike me as even close to being that ingrained.

The reality is probably somewhere between our points, me thinking cultural adds more than what it does to our identity, you thinking it adds less than so. You're more right, we still gain from translations of great works.

In reality, Russian identity died with the Soviet Union. Right now it's a cadaver. It might not ever regenerate.

Well, we look forward to the day The Russian Federation joins NATO - hoping the Russian people would enjoy such a relationship  ;D

I was kinda hoping you'll have some good examples. We don't have to agree about them, just something that worked for you.

I concede nothing of merit comes to mind at the moment - I could cherry pick and use comics as an example ( Frank Miller's early work on Batman towers above all that preceded it, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing essentially made it is own ). But I'll let you know if something more substantial bubbles up.

I maintain that I'm not being adamantly dismissive. I simply employ a strategy (based on my experience) for getting enjoyable content. It's like choosing food, only for books.

I'm with you a little - My last 3 reads I've abandoned ( well, haven't completely given up on Malazan just yet, but not looking good ... the likes of Bakker/Herbert/Simmons has spoiled me ). I too only have so much time, best spent on the good stuff. That said, I give all works a fair shake regardless of origination.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 15, 2018, 05:42:20 pm
Well, we look forward to the day The Russian Federation joins NATO - hoping the Russian people would enjoy such a relationship  ;D
As far as I remember, Putin put forward a similar idea around the year 2000. But Russia is considered a scary and strange place, so no luck.

I concede nothing of merit comes to mind at the moment - I could cherry pick and use comics as an example ( Frank Miller's early work on Batman towers above all that preceded it, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing essentially made it is own ). But I'll let you know if something more substantial bubbles up.
Oh, comics are a thing in themselves. They are vast and far reaching as cultural impact goes, but at the same time their long history works against them when we're talking artistic value. There is just too much baggage in every single big comic series, so a good writer is getting dragged down by all the bad ones, while bad ones are getting dragged up by their more talented colleagues. The end result is, well, what main comic universes are today. I couldn't get into them, not even for Miller or Moore.

My relationship with comics is an academic one, I study them, but I don't - can't - read them.

That said, I give all works a fair shake regardless of origination.
Well, I've encountered many unreadable works (like, straight up unintelligible fare, bad fanfic level), so I wouldn't say I give everything a chance. But everything I can read ten pages of without pulling my hair out, sure!
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Wilshire on November 28, 2018, 03:48:14 pm
I feel that anime is an under-utilized media platform for telling stories - specifically adapting books to screens.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on November 28, 2018, 04:18:11 pm
I feel that anime is an under-utilized media platform for telling stories - specifically adapting books to screens.
Only in the Western world. In Japan, almost all even slightly popular mangas and light novels have anime adaptations. I'm very happy with it.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Wilshire on November 28, 2018, 07:02:37 pm
I feel that anime is an under-utilized media platform for telling stories - specifically adapting books to screens.
Only in the Western world. In Japan, almost all even slightly popular mangas and light novels have anime adaptations. I'm very happy with it.

My thinking is very American-centric lol. I usually forget people form other countries are usually around. Makes sense that other parts of the world, especially Japan where it comes form, gets more of it.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on November 29, 2018, 03:25:08 am
I feel that anime is an under-utilized media platform for telling stories - specifically adapting books to screens.
Only in the Western world. In Japan, almost all even slightly popular mangas and light novels have anime adaptations. I'm very happy with it.

My thinking is very American-centric lol. I usually forget people form other countries are usually around. Makes sense that other parts of the world, especially Japan where it comes form, gets more of it.

I'm interested in anime, the problem being I indulge entertainment on my own terms and anime seems the most difficult to approach that way. At least in the West, it's a niche world populated by people conceitedly keeping it that way. It's a curious sociological phenomenon - like people who perceive they're not accepted in the popular sphere and counter it by creating a sphere prohibiting participation in kind. Full immersion is the only accepted level of participation with much more importance on the social sharing aspects than appreciation for the work. Ergo, it's difficult to get into it as just wanting to see the "good" stuff every so often. Scanning IMDB won't cut it.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Wilshire on November 29, 2018, 01:59:04 pm
"Anime" is a big space. You'd want to drill into it before you get started - read some wiki pages, see what 'genres' exist within it. A lot of it is for kids - like obvious Dragon Ball Z angle where you essentially have fighting interspersed with bad dialog about why they are fighting and the good guy wins by juuuust a hair.

There's also a lot of really irritating tropes that get old, and ruin what would otherwise be perfectly entertaining. Like how usually everyone is about 12 years old and all the woman are hyper sexualized to the point of absurdity, there's usually a comic relief character in the form of an animated object or animal that's extremely irritating, given that most come from japan anime worlds tend to be extremely patriarchal, etc. etc.

Its also a cartoon.

These are all reasons why its not popular, generally speaking. You are totally right though about it isolated groups isolating themselves to a point lol. ts always amusing to me when marginalized groups marginalize themselves and others, but thats a different topic.

Another barrier is that translations tend to be mediocre. The subtitled versions that still have the Japanese voices tend to be far superior, but then you're stuck reading subtitles. The ones redubbed in english tend to have much worse writing and the voice acting isn't as good either - I suspect this is because US producers think the audience is just kids so they dumb it down.

So your choices are irritating subtitles, or bad translations lol. There's some stuff out there worth watching, but I don't really have any recommendations for where to get started. Just look up some 'best anime' lists and pick a couple, watch about 3 episodes dubbed and see what you think.

As a general statement though, what you get with anime is way different than what you get with your typical tv shows. There seems to be a lot more creative freedom, and a lot less commercial pressures, which I think provides a potentially superior outlet for converting books.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: H on November 29, 2018, 02:33:54 pm
There's also a lot of really irritating tropes that get old, and ruin what would otherwise be perfectly entertaining. Like how usually everyone is about 12 years old and all the woman are hyper sexualized to the point of absurdity, there's usually a comic relief character in the form of an animated object or animal that's extremely irritating, given that most come from japan anime worlds tend to be extremely patriarchal, etc. etc.

Right, I think part of it comes with the fact that a lot of Japanese anime is done in a very particular style of storytelling.  I'd almost say it is "uniquely" "culturally Japanese" in this sense, but it isn't as if I know enough about it to really say that definitively.  It comes from (I think) something of anime's precursor, the Manga.  Take the Berserk manga, which has plenty of elements as disturbing and brutal as anything tSA has ever explored (sometimes even more), but also has elf/faeries that made side jokes and Star Wars references.

Not that I watch a ton of it, but something more like Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, which I think was actually made in English (I think), is generally different than what comes direct out of Japan.

Another barrier is that translations tend to be mediocre. The subtitled versions that still have the Japanese voices tend to be far superior, but then you're stuck reading subtitles. The ones redubbed in english tend to have much worse writing and the voice acting isn't as good either - I suspect this is because US producers think the audience is just kids so they dumb it down.

So your choices are irritating subtitles, or bad translations lol. There's some stuff out there worth watching, but I don't really have any recommendations for where to get started. Just look up some 'best anime' lists and pick a couple, watch about 3 episodes dubbed and see what you think.

Well, part of it is the trouble of cultural idiom.  Another is just the general difficulty of translation, period.  Also, for people who don't speak Japanese, I think Japanese generally sounds more serious/dramatic than it actually is, with exceptions of course (at least it does to me).  Subtitles don't bother me though, but I guess they do for some people.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Wilshire on November 29, 2018, 03:37:51 pm
Well, part of it is the trouble of cultural idiom.  Another is just the general difficulty of translation, period.  Also, for people who don't speak Japanese, I think Japanese generally sounds more serious/dramatic than it actually is, with exceptions of course (at least it does to me).  Subtitles don't bother me though, but I guess they do for some people.

Lol you're probably write - Japanese sounds dramatic, and often the dramatic lines, ones redubbed into english sound silly. What I dont understand though is why the subbed version it doesn't look near so strange.

I used to only watch it subbed, but now my TV watching is usually combined with something else. Usually the TV is background noise and I'm doing something else. Subtitles make you pay a lot more attention.

... I Just had a thought. Japanese is spoken very quickly. Sometimes whole sentences flash across the screen very rapidly. It might just be that when spoken, the actors simply can't say all the words to match the action/camera on-screen. This likely leads to  shortening phrases so that the english speakers can say what needs to be said in the time provided. This reduction causes words to be shortened to their diminutive counterparts - something like changing "extraordinary" to "cool".
Never though of it that way before. Very interesting.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TaoHorror on November 29, 2018, 03:44:00 pm
You're right about the subtitles being an overall better experience than dubbing for much of it. I watched The Vision of Escaflowne subtitled and enjoyed it, though reading subtitles can wear you down ( just having to keep up, not having to read ). I enjoyed Ghost in the Machine and Princess Mononoke in English dubbing.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on November 29, 2018, 03:49:45 pm
... I Just had a thought. Japanese is spoken very quickly. Sometimes whole sentences flash across the screen very rapidly. It might just be that when spoken, the actors simply can't say all the words to match the action/camera on-screen. This likely leads to  shortening phrases so that the english speakers can say what needs to be said in the time provided. This reduction causes words to be shortened to their diminutive counterparts - something like changing "extraordinary" to "cool".
Never though of it that way before. Very interesting.
It's also 100% true and a very serious concern for localization that relates to many languages alongside Japanese. For example, the size of text boxes in mediums where they exist (like manga) is always a problem, which often requires creative translating work.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: H on November 29, 2018, 04:25:26 pm
Lol you're probably write - Japanese sounds dramatic, and often the dramatic lines, ones redubbed into english sound silly. What I dont understand though is why the subbed version it doesn't look near so strange.

I used to only watch it subbed, but now my TV watching is usually combined with something else. Usually the TV is background noise and I'm doing something else. Subtitles make you pay a lot more attention.

... I Just had a thought. Japanese is spoken very quickly. Sometimes whole sentences flash across the screen very rapidly. It might just be that when spoken, the actors simply can't say all the words to match the action/camera on-screen. This likely leads to  shortening phrases so that the english speakers can say what needs to be said in the time provided. This reduction causes words to be shortened to their diminutive counterparts - something like changing "extraordinary" to "cool".
Never though of it that way before. Very interesting.

This is a problem for not only dubbing things, but even for tranlating for subtitles.  Directly transliterating what is said is often not helpful, because of things like idiom but also because it would take you forever to read it on screen.  I recall when that second Ghost In the Shell movie came out, all that was available for a while online were fansubs.  Since they aren't professional traslaters, thy just wrote down what everyone literally said.  The result was sometimes strange, but also almost always so verbose that at times something like nearly a quarter of the screen was subtitles.

It's true, the same goes for dubs, as you point out.  And it's worse there, because the timing is even more difficult, because idiom is different and words are simply different lengths.  There is also a problem like the following:

If a character says "Kon'nichiwa" and another says "Ohayo Gozaimasu" both could be translated to English as "Hello" as they do sort of mean the same thing.  So, it depends on if the translator chooses to capture that nuance, or not.  It gets even more complicated when, for example, in Chinese, certain words have negative connotations because of other words they look like written or sounds like spoken.  There is no way to really convey that translated to English.  I'm not expert, but there are likely tons of examples of this in other languages too.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TLEILAXU on November 29, 2018, 05:00:03 pm
Dubs are stupid.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on November 29, 2018, 05:02:28 pm
I'm not thrilled about dubs as well.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: Ain't Germain on August 07, 2019, 03:16:52 pm
I want like, at least three different kinds of TSA video game off the top of my head:

1. Basically an RTS that combines some of the lighter elements of nation-running akin to Age of Empires, but mostly just something like Starcraft in terms of controls, with Inchoroi = Zerg, Nonmen = Protoss, and obivously Humans = Terrans. The sheer size of the armies you control -- and fight -- should be one of key elements (need something for Sranc to swarm over, and sorcerors to destroy in epic magnitude). All of this spans the history of Earwa, from the Cuno-Inchoroi the Breaking of the Gates, to the First Apocalypse and then finally the Great Ordeal (and whatever comprises the 'final battles' of the Second Apocalypse) -- not necesarily in that order.

2. Action-focused RPG with precision melee combat a la Dark Souls/Sekiro, but with an actually nuanced/fun to play version of a Sorceror.

3. Elder Scrolls-like open world RPG that basically lets you travel across all of Earwa. Character creation, only with better and more realistic combat (things like weapon vs armor choices actually reflect reality, I.E. blade weapons can't cut through heavy plate armor, etc.).

Add Zeum for DLC expansion.



(Really, you could just combine the last two for my ideal TSA action-RPG)
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: TLEILAXU on August 08, 2019, 01:29:20 pm
I want like, at least three different kinds of TSA video game off the top of my head:

1. Basically an RTS that combines some of the lighter elements of nation-running akin to Age of Empires, but mostly just something like Starcraft in terms of controls, with Inchoroi = Zerg, Nonmen = Protoss, and obivously Humans = Terrans. The sheer size of the armies you control -- and fight -- should be one of key elements (need something for Sranc to swarm over, and sorcerors to destroy in epic magnitude). All of this spans the history of Earwa, from the Cuno-Inchoroi the Breaking of the Gates, to the First Apocalypse and then finally the Great Ordeal (and whatever comprises the 'final battles' of the Second Apocalypse) -- not necesarily in that order.

2. Action-focused RPG with precision melee combat a la Dark Souls/Sekiro, but with an actually nuanced/fun to play version of a Sorceror.

3. Elder Scrolls-like open world RPG that basically lets you travel across all of Earwa. Character creation, only with better and more realistic combat (things like weapon vs armor choices actually reflect reality, I.E. blade weapons can't cut through heavy plate armor, etc.).

Add Zeum for DLC expansion.



(Really, you could just combine the last two for my ideal TSA action-RPG)
I'm a huge RTS fan but a TSA sounds awful. An RPG like Sekiro could be cool though, like imagine playing as a skinspy and your mission is to infiltrate Zeum or something.
Title: Re: Thought about other supports?
Post by: SmilerLoki on August 08, 2019, 10:12:50 pm
Inb4 anyone mentions FATAL. Don't Google at work!