The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Judging Eye => Topic started by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:08 pm

Title: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:08 pm
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Cu'jara Cinmoi, 2005
I actually haven't worked out anything much regarding the origins of nimil (which in my notes, I simply call 'Nonman steel'). The same goes for the motives of the Nonmen in sharing the Gnosis, though the first to do so (Gin'yursis, I think) was an exile, and so I suspect had personal motives.

You're starting to tap bottom quite regularly, White Lord.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:16 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Cu'jara Cinmoi, 2005
The Aporos is this 'sorcery of paradox,' where the meanings that make sorcery possible are turned in on themselves to generate what might be called 'contradiction fields.'

Since the metaphysics of sorcery actually plays a significant role in TTT, it would probably be better to postpone a more in depth discussion until then.

Hokay, now, the aporos is "sorcery of paradox". Paradox, as we have been told, can only be comprehended by those with souls. However the chorae can be used by anyone. What if the whole chorae transformation thing was brought about by the chorae being seen by "The Soul", i.e the God's Soul. God, having a some kind of original soul, or a metasoul, is the only thing capable for full seeing the paradox of the chorae, transforming it from its more mundane form to a kind of meta-Aporos.
 :ugeek:
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:22 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
I think the Seal and the Wight of the Mountain is meant to be foreshadowing.

It is pointing us in the direction of the only way the NoGod can be defeated.

Presuming the NoGod is within the typical good/evil dialectic typical of the genre that a reader expects and in a sense demands.  All bets are off if the NoGod is instead within a dialectic separate from the book (such as being meaninglessness personified, or the anthropomorphic personification of the disenchantment of the world brought about by modernism) that furthers the author's agenda in order to teach a lesson to the reader--aka rubbing the puppy's nose in poo.  If the latter is the case rather than the former, we can't really figure anything out, because internal consistency is less important than the forcefulness of keeping the puppy nose pressed into the poo.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:29 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
:(
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:38 pm
Quote from: Madness
I was thinking last night and this morning that there were a lot weird things going on TJE. Honestly, its the one thread of plot I feel I have no handle on.

Can't wait til my new copy gets here :evil:.

EDIT: For instance - why I didn't transcribe moments ago ;) - what happens with the Wolf Gate at the beginning of Cil-Aujis? Nothing, something?

Why do the Gates need guarding? Why does Mimara guard the Gates? Why is that the argument that accompanies Chorae Power in dissuading the Wight and the hellish Seal.

Also, I specifically bumped this quote - though it is interesting otherwise - to highlight that Gin'yursis is the Wight. Apparently, an exiled Nonman and, apparently, the first teacher of the Gnosis to men, not the First Siqu, Cet'ingira, who would then represent a condoned effort on the part of the Nonmen to teach men.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:33:46 pm
Quote from: Curethan
Every time I see this thread I think about the wight having a nice cup of tea with a seal on the beach.

"The time has come," the wight king said.
"To talk of many things."
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:34:08 pm
Quote from: Madness
Wow... Brilliant idea, Curethan. But I must study :shock: .
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:34:16 pm
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Curethan
"The time has come," the wight king said.
"To talk of many things."
Those oyster-headed Inchies better watch out.
Quote from: Lewis Carroll
After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters..."
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:34:23 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Duskweaver
Quote from: Lewis Carroll
After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters..."

*Mimara began, ...
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:34:46 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Curethan
Every time I see this thread I think about the wight having a nice cup of tea with a seal on the beach.

"The time has come," the wight king said.
"To talk of many things."
*Honk honk!*

Somewhat like Wilshires idea, I think Mimara's judging eye widens the frame of the chorae's condensed doubt. The doubt extended only so far, and the wights frame actually eclipses and surrounds the frame of what the chorae doubts. Thus it normally has no effect on him as much as it has no effect on regular folk.

Perhaps if the choraes frame was widened far enough, upon contact it would turn normal folk to salt.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: What Came Before on April 26, 2013, 04:34:53 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Callan S.
Somewhat like Wilshires idea, I think Mimara's judging eye widens the frame of the chorae's condensed doubt. The doubt extended only so far, and the wights frame actually eclipses and surrounds the frame of what the chorae doubts. Thus it normally has no effect on him as much as it has no effect on regular folk.

Perhaps if the choraes frame was widened far enough, upon contact it would turn normal folk to salt.

Meta-aporos...

Or, how about, the no-god? He is just a really big chorae that disenchants everything.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: MrGanondorf on February 25, 2014, 07:04:40 pm
One thing I thought might be significant is that the wight seems to be its own agent, that is, it's not a soul just being passed from ciphrang to ciphrang.  So I have no idea where this is going--other souls in the Oustide might show up in similar ways in TUC?
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: The Sharmat on May 02, 2014, 08:01:04 am
I got the impression the Wight of the Mountain was a shitload of souls all writhing in torment but coalesced about the soul of the Nonman King. Maybe some souls have more "weight" outside than others and act as anchors.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: Madness on May 05, 2014, 01:26:32 pm
Maybe some souls have more "weight" outside than others and act as anchors.

+1
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: MrGanondorf on May 05, 2014, 08:23:58 pm
I got the impression the Wight of the Mountain was a shitload of souls all writhing in torment but coalesced about the soul of the Nonman King. Maybe some souls have more "weight" outside than others and act as anchors.

I like that!  So maybe if a heap of souls can congeal together, they might avoid being eaten individually by ciphrang (while still wailing in agony for eternity because the damned are just set in their ways)
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: Crtha on May 06, 2014, 01:02:07 am
This makes me think of Sorweel's father warning him about the Sranc.  Harweel shouldn't even be in Yatwer's mini-dimension...  Ancestors who retain autonomy in the Outside?
Maybe the Wight also retains some autonomy even in damnation and is able to claw his way back to Earwa

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Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: Madness on May 08, 2014, 06:59:31 pm
Lol - doesn't that happen in WLW?

But:

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Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: MrGanondorf on May 08, 2014, 09:31:22 pm
This makes me think of Sorweel's father warning him about the Sranc.  Harweel shouldn't even be in Yatwer's mini-dimension...  Ancestors who retain autonomy in the Outside?
Maybe the Wight also retains some autonomy even in damnation and is able to claw his way back to Earwa

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I hadn't thought about it until you said that but...

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Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: Madness on May 09, 2014, 02:47:34 pm
Nah, MG. I think this going to be a classic episode of omission.

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Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: MrGanondorf on May 13, 2014, 03:39:19 pm
Nah, MG. I think this going to be a classic episode of omission.

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I hope so!  It's going to be something epic and Illiad-like with a crowd showing up!
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: Crtha on May 13, 2014, 10:38:27 pm
Gilgaol is very likely aligned with Yatwer, there are quite a few references to this through TJE and WLW.

Ajokli is also referenced many times and is clearly up to something, as is (to a much lesser extent) Anagke.

Ajokli is the prime candidate (in my mind) to be on the side of Kellhus, as he is bellicose and rewards thievery and assassination - Kellhus is a star in those fields.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: MrGanondorf on July 01, 2014, 03:38:34 pm
Gilgaol is very likely aligned with Yatwer, there are quite a few references to this through TJE and WLW.

Ajokli is also referenced many times and is clearly up to something, as is (to a much lesser extent) Anagke.

Ajokli is the prime candidate (in my mind) to be on the side of Kellhus, as he is bellicose and rewards thievery and assassination - Kellhus is a star in those fields.

The repeated pairing of Birth and War makes me wonder if they aren't just the same thing.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: The Sharmat on September 03, 2014, 04:02:00 am
Giving birth is battle, complete with pain, blood, and death.
Title: Re: The Seal & The Wight of the Mountain
Post by: EkyannusIII on September 11, 2014, 04:42:06 pm
The Aztecs buried women who died in childbirth with the same funeral rites as war heroes.