The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => The Prince of Nothing => The Thousandfold Thought => Topic started by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:09 pm

Title: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:09 pm
Quote from: Curethan
When Cnaiur returns to his tribe after Kiyuth and I realised just how batshit Bakker's barbarians were. 
So awesome how Cnaiur's insanity is foreshadowed by him being the pinnacle of a maddeningly brutal culture.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:21 pm
Quote from: Sideris
In the early part of the book, far and away, Inrau's death. Tortured soul as he was, boy died like a fucking champ. One does not mess with Gnostic kung fu. :P

ANY scene with Conphas. He's a joy to read. Even though he's supremely young, I always, always picture James Purefoy's portrayal of Marc Antony from HBO's Rome. The smarm and cunning just fit the mold.

Yursalka's death, but for other reasons. Sure, I really like Cnaiur. Despite his insanity and utter brutality, he's one of the most compelling characters in the whole series. Hands down. However, Yursalka's death, man, that was hard. I understood his reasons and his horror. Despite the Scylvendi being what they are, Bakker did a fine job at making them people.

Cnaiur and Kellhus drawing up their cover stories. Here's Cnaiur beaten and bloody by Kellhus, fighting and trying to catch hold of his waning hope to find Moenghus. And Kellhus lays it out before him how they'll come to the Holy War, giving us one of the best lines of the book. "We shall come to them out of the darkness, Scylvendi. We'll be whoever we say we are." Gives me chills every time I read it.

Sranchammer, king of One Scene Wonders throughout the whole series thus far.

The late-book interrogation, that is all.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:30 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Sideris
ANY scene with Conphas. He's a joy to read. Even though he's supremely young, I always, always picture James Purefoy's portrayal of Marc Antony from HBO's Rome. The smarm and cunning just fit the mold.
So I'm not the only one.

The Prologue is one of my favorites actually. Though only after a re-reading. The prose there is quite beautiful, I think. "One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten." Other favorites include any scene where Cnaiur is THE MOST VIOLENT OF ALL MEN.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:38 pm
Quote from: Sideris
I'd have to agree. I appreciate the prologue (despite its wonky formatting) a lot more in the third go-around. The encounter with the Nonman is an especially good point, as is Kellhus losing it for a while.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:46 pm
Quote from: Camlost
I find the scene where Akka staggers back to camp, oblivious to all but his reeling thoughts, after the discovery of the Consult more and more profound with each reread
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:05:52 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
You're too late, Chigra.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:06:01 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Conphas' meeting with Xerius during his Triumph
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:06:11 pm
Quote from: Sideris
That scene was one of the rare wins for the good Emperor.

Also, Mallahet and Skauras.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:06:19 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
When I first flipped open the book to a random page, it was Conphas, saying something about the nature of men and how they follow. I think every page I flipped to had something interesting going on - honestly, if only one page in four had something interesting on it, I'd have bought it. But every page.

I will remember, Dunyain! I will remember!

Even then...having no idea about the history of the nonmen, there's something about that that stuck. Like a tower saying it's gunna remember you...


And the twig.

Or more to the point in how it returns. Agreened.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:06:27 pm
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
The prologue is wonderful.
Quote
So clear this place...
and of course
Quote
RUN ANASURIMBOR RUN I WILL REMEMBER!!!!

Cnaiur and Kellhus travelling through the Steppe is one of my favourite moments in general, not only from the DTCBF.I think that was the point for me that i became a dedicated fan.

And yes i agree that almost everything including Conphas was brilliant.Such a fascinating character!!
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:10 pm
Quote from: Madness
Agree, Mog. I enjoyed the politicking of TDTCB but, absolutely, from Cnaiur finding Kellhus on his father's barrow and their journey across the Steppe to the Holy War has to be one of my favorite fantasy sequences ever.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:14 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
I can't believe no one has mentioned that meditation scene!

The Logos is without beginning or end, bitches!  :D

Fantastically original creation, right there.  Utterly stunning.  More than 20% cooler.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:23 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Speaking of Cnaiur, I can't remember specifically when it occurs, but there's a moment after reaching Momemn where for a brief instant Cnaiur actually feels horror and guilt for what he has delivered to the Holy War. That a Dunyain is a creature so terrible that even a Scylvendi shouldn't inflict it on his fellow man, even those that just exist as sacrifices to Lokung.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:29 pm
Quote from: Sideris
As he's watching Kellhus speak with Achamian, Serwe resting her head upon his lap. He's crouched behind something. It's sad I know that off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:36 pm
Quote from: Tony P
Hmm, tough one. One of Bakkers biggest strengths is realising how much he'd already been guiding you when you're rereading. Many scenes improve with the knowledge of what comes after.

I have a soft spot for the lesser but awesome characters like Athjeri and Scranchammer and Gothyelk, etc. but I was really hooked by the time I'd read Cnaurs pov on meeting Kellhus.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:45 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
I can't say this is the my favorite scene of the book, if only because there are so many extraordinary ones.  But here's one that got me thinking -- a scene of reflection that itself triggers a reflection, if you will.

This is after the first "fireside chat" between Kellhus and Achamian.  Afterward Achamian returns to the lonely darkness of his tent and broods about the possibility of Kellhus being the Harbinger of the Second Apocalypse, and here's his reaction:

"Achamian began trembling, shaking with a horror he'd never before experienced while awake.

The No-God returning?  Please, sweet Sejenus, let me die before ---

It was unthinkable!  He hugged his shoulders and rocked in the blackness of his tent, whispering, "No!"  Over and over again, "No!"

Please... This can't be happening -- not to me!  I'm too weak.  I'm just a fool..."

Now, here's my reflection on Achamian's reflection: this is a work of high fantasy.  Every since the Council of Elrond, it's far from uncommon for some seemingly lowly character to assume the burden of the end of the world.  What have been their reaction?  Following the steps of Frodo -- some variation of stoic determination.

And here's Achamian, the intellectual of the story, a man who has a habit of self-reflection: wailing and gnashing of teeth -- I'm just a weak fool.  Let me die before a burden of such lunatic proportion even has a chance of falling upon my shoulder.

Human, all too human.  :(
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:07:54 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
It probably doesn't help that from the onset he has a far more intimate understanding of what such a thing would mean than say, Frodo has about Sauron and Mordor.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:08:06 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
That's true, to a certain extent.  Yet I think there's something more going on here.  In these other stories (certainly including the mighty LOTR), no reader has any doubt about who will win in the end.  Sure, some details must be worked out.  Maybe some characters won't make it, but overall the "good" must triumph.  And it seems that makes the non-freakout reaction of the characters in the stories quite acceptable.  But for The Second Apocalypse, honestly even at this point (let alone in the first volume) I still have no idea what the end is going to be like -- if anything, the end gets more mysterious the more we go on.  That makes Achamian's reaction much more sympathetic and understandable -- the world really could end.

Also, speaking of Achamian having a more intimate understanding, it seems to me this is yet another instance of Mr. Bakker pulling off an amazing trick almost effortlessly here.  Think about it: what would be your reaction if some key character gets a prophetic dream and that turns out to be a big deal?  Eye rolling galore.  Yet by turning that dream into a real nightmare -- an endless series of nightmares seamlessly woven into a key character, his experience, his vocation, his personality, his development -- there is not the slightest whiff of hokeyness here.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:08:10 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
We're looking back on decades of existence for the most renowned fantasy series on Earth. While the final outcome being the death of Sauron was likely never in question, the structure of the Two Towers and Return of the King, for a reader utterly ignorant of the story, could very well leave the impression that Frodo had died at Cirith Ungol. Unlike the films, the last you see of Frodo until over halfway through the Return of the King is him being stung by Shelob and his "corpse" taken to Cirith Ungol, while Sam picks up the Ring. By the time the book returns to Frodo and Sam, you've seen the scene at the Black Gate where the Mouth of Sauron offers Aragorn and Co Frodo's mithril coat. It really didn't look good for him.

But like Darth Vader being Luke Skywalker's father, it's simply impossible to go into that series and be surprised anymore.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:08:18 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
You know, I never thought of that, and now I feel I missed an extremely important piece of that series that I can never experience.  What a shame.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:13 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
Kind of on that topic, I wonder about the 'book that shall not be named' - surely for future generations, they are gunna know the title when buying TDTCB. So do they miss out on that experience of not knowing? Seems unfair?

On the other hand, I suspect the supposed spoiler title will actually be highly obsfucated and only a few tin foil scarf wearers will get it in advance, so I'm guessing it wont be a spoiler at all.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:19 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
I agree completely. I guess The Price of Nothing is a spoiler, as is TWP, WLW, TTT, and UC are all spoilers in their own right. Foreshadowing is much easier to see when you know whats going to happen. Its easy to see through the clues to the inevitable ending when you have already seen the end. I doubt the final title will be expectationaly spoilerific. Though who knows it could be "Kell and his reign as the no-god" or "A History of Nonmen: How they saved the world from Kell".
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:27 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Kellhus Dies at the End.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:34 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
"The Kellhus that dies before"
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:42 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
"It Was All a Dream."
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:49 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
lol!

"Maggie Simpson did it!"
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:09:57 pm
Quote from: geoint
Quote from: The Sharmat
Speaking of Cnaiur, I can't remember specifically when it occurs, but there's a moment after reaching Momemn where for a brief instant Cnaiur actually feels horror and guilt for what he has delivered to the Holy War. That a Dunyain is a creature so terrible that even a Scylvendi shouldn't inflict it on his fellow man, even those that just exist as sacrifices to Lokung.
I agree with every word you said :D


I loved Cnaiur.  I have a thing about disfigured, tortured souls that I just sympathize with (Sandor Clegane, Cnaiur Urs Skiotha, Harry Potter...etc) 


Oh and jk I HATE Harry Potter  :evil:
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:06 pm
Quote from: Madness
I Lol'd. +1 for Cnaiur! Also, again, to all the spoiler names, that were suggested.

I had the opportunity of asking Bakker that once, Callan, and though, he's obviously been tight-lipped about it, he said he doesn't feel that TSTSNBN will, ultimately, spoil the experience for newcomers... which means it can't be a crazy spoiler.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:13 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
unless of course TSTSNBN is a phantom, meant to throw us off the scent.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:21 pm
Quote from: Madness
Juicy thought. Nice sig, lockesnow.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:28 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
yeah, I thought it appropriate to this universe.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:37 pm
Quote from: xanmcgregor
Geshruni and Achamian sceene in tavern in Carythusal (chapter 1). I just love this scene, the environment, noises, screams, atmosphere, dynamics. You are simply dragged into this place, like you're sitting next to them and nothing is like it seems... every wrong step leads to death.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on April 19, 2013, 02:10:49 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: xanmcgregor
Geshruni and Achamian sceene in tavern in Carythusal (chapter 1). I just love this scene, the environment, noises, screams, atmosphere, dynamics. You are simply dragged into this place, like you're sitting next to them and nothing is like it seems... every wrong step leads to death.

The juxtaposition of the whore and Akka is great, especially now after I've read all the books a few times. A great opening scene for Akka. "You lose, whore" is basically Akka's existence in a nutshell, given to us in his first appearance.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on May 06, 2013, 07:25:09 pm
Though I didn't, or couldn't, grasp the awesomeness on my first read, looking back at the Inrau death scene is awesome. He's a bloody ninja, using his magic to move at lightning speeds, punching through chests with his hands, refusing to die un-witnessed and throwing himself off the balcony to try and save his doomed master. And the pillar he followed with his hand, down to the ground.
Amazing.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Davias on May 23, 2013, 07:42:59 pm
My favourite scenes in the first book are Inrau's Death, the consult visiting Esmi, and Skeas' esposure as a skin-spy.
The first time, Bakker described the synthetic bird and the following conversation, I was completely hooked to the story.
The night between Esmenet and the Inchoroi was a great scene, where we first saw a glimpse of the consult.
And the scene in the dungeon with Achamian, Xerius and Skeas was the point, where I recognised, that this fantasy story was going to be really thrilling and epic.
One of the coolest scenes in the second book was the epilog in my opinion. "WHO ARE THE DUNYAIN?" Absolutely great epilog by Bakker!
And I LOVE all dialogs between Cnaiur and Kellhus. Especially written, when Cnaiur is the POV.

Mmmmhh, there are so many things, I could find in the books, but when I has to name the greatest scene, it is the first "clash between Kellhus and the consult in book three. It's a passage, which I could read every day anew. "The consult has finally come." and so on....fantastic reading.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Baztek on May 23, 2013, 08:45:24 pm
The Skaeos scene is so fucking chilling, man. There's something so unsettling about the Holy War getting ready to march, all these nations, all these leaders and generals and warriors and slaves, all eyes set on Shimeh, yet no one has the slightest clue they've been infiltrated by a cabal of horrific eldritch monsters from the north. There's such a palpable menace in that, especially when you consider the fact that probably the last time anyone saw Sarcellus or Skeaos is when they  went out to take a piss, only to get murdered by a skin-spy.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on May 23, 2013, 10:33:10 pm
I really do think its a shame that scenes like these are so few and far between. Like you said, it really isn't until too late where things start to get exciting, where the fantasy that people are expecting actually comes through.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Srancy on May 31, 2013, 04:58:42 pm
Easily Achamian's walk to Kellhus' Imperial inauguration.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on June 01, 2013, 05:37:11 pm
Not a commentary on your post, Srancy.

This is one of a number of threads where spoilers were flagrantly disregarded.

Lol, I cannot catch them all.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on June 03, 2013, 03:52:24 pm
I almost said something then realized I probaly had some spoilers in here. Good move to this thread.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 04:36:08 pm
Hey, please, protest too much :). I'm attempting to embody the community consensus on decisions regarding the forum (which amounts to a collective vision by about ten of us at the moment). But obviously voice your dissent - how else shall we evolve our noosphere?
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: v0id_walker on October 01, 2013, 01:23:40 pm
I love the part of book where Cnaiur and Kellhus meet for the first time and trvael to Mommen. Actually, these two are my favourite characters in these books. Cant wait for the unholly consul to be released.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on October 01, 2013, 04:40:44 pm
Welcome to the forum v0id_walker. You are the 100th member to join. You get no prize, but its still cool.  ;)
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on October 01, 2013, 07:00:20 pm
Kellhus & Cnaiur's journey across the Steppe is one of my favorite fantasy sentences ever.

Welcome to The Second Apocalypse, v0id_walker.

Also, Wilshire, numbers will drop a few once I can reliably identify the remaining Spam-Sranc among the Nonmen Erratics...
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Meyna on October 01, 2013, 08:25:20 pm
Kellhus & Cnaiur's journey across the Steppe is one of my favorite fantasy sentences ever.

Seconded! The realization that dawns as Cnaiur takes the measure of the son and sees the father is brilliant (as are the initial seeds of supposed Dunyain philosophy that are sown in the readers head).
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on October 01, 2013, 08:31:53 pm
Kellhus & Cnaiur's journey across the Steppe is one of my favorite fantasy sentences ever.

Welcome to The Second Apocalypse, v0id_walker.

Also, Wilshire, numbers will drop a few once I can reliably identify the remaining Spam-Sranc among the Nonmen Erratics...

Don't you squash my dreams.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on October 02, 2013, 01:21:20 pm
Seconded! The realization that dawns as Cnaiur takes the measure of the son and sees the father is brilliant (as are the initial seeds of supposed Dunyain philosophy that are sown in the readers head).

Added to the desolate plainscape and the actuality of the deadly Steppe, whether it be Scylvendi or the World.

Don't you squash my dreams.

No twisted smiley... I think I shall have to bolster our arsenal.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: themerchant on January 08, 2014, 09:27:25 am
One of my favourite scenes now is at the start of TWP. From Kellhus PoV(paraphrasing here) where he thinks that after a long time of exposure to Akka he now knows him better than everyone. He is thinking about how his two friends Esmi and Xin think him weak and try and shelter him from life. however after months of prolonged exposure he now knows Akka is actually stronger than anyone realises especially Akka. He then thinks something about how some people need hewn from experience like a rock.

I just like the implications of that scene. Everyone thinks Akka is the weak one but Kellhus knows he is strong and just needs a little bit "experience" which i'm sure the aspect emperor is providing him with.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Ascendant on January 10, 2014, 06:43:37 pm
The scene where Cnaiur makes a great stand against Conphas' legion and goes like:

"For a thousand years! Fucking your wives, strangling your children, and striking down your fathers... For a thousand years I have stalked you!"

I still remember him saying that. Damn, I loved this scene.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Somnambulist on January 10, 2014, 06:45:46 pm
The scene where Cnaiur makes a great stand against Conphas' legion and goes like:

"For a thousand years! Fucking your wives, strangling your children, and striking down your fathers... For a thousand years I have stalked you!"

I still remember him saying that. Damn, I loved this scene.

That's one of my all-time favorites, as well.  Awesome.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Francis Buck on January 12, 2014, 09:04:49 pm
Yeah, the sequences with Kellhus and Cnaiur traversing the Steppe were great, some of my favorite scenes in the series for sure.

I like the dreams about Seswatha and Nau-Cayuti sneaking into Goltgotterath, and then later the Ark itself.

The battle of wills between Kellhus and Aurang.

The battle of wills between Kellhus and Moe.

Cil-Aujas.

Any time Yatwer intervenes in some way.

The battle of wills between Inrilatas and Maithanet (this is a big favorite of mine).

The Nonman Emissary.

There's plenty more, but they're the ones that immediately come to mind.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Triskele on January 14, 2014, 04:07:22 am
I also recently read the part with Cnaiur and Kellhus crossing the Steppe, and it is amazing.  The little chess match between the two...the Dunyain on its mission.  But it's so great because of Cnaiur being kind of brilliant himself and the only soul around the Three Seas that we know of who knows about how Dunyain operate....makes it so much more fun. 


Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 14, 2014, 12:35:11 pm
Cnaiur and Kellhus on the Steppe is easily one of the best sequences of fantasy ever.

And really they are of supreme import to the novels.

So a prime sequence to have written well.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on January 15, 2014, 05:54:57 pm
I like Inrau's final scene. Recently started reading TDTCB again and this scene continues to blow me away. It reeks of hidden meanings that you can't possibly understand the first time. Hell even the 3rd time I still learn new things.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 01:05:28 am
Obviously, it's when the book really takes off as you have some definite proof that the Consult isn't just stuff of Mandate delusion. I remember the Synthese blowing me away - AWESOME!
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on January 28, 2014, 01:13:12 am
As I've read more books I've come to appreciate the amazing balance Bakker has struck with his slow-drip information I.V. There is a fine line between mystery and boredom. He did a masterful job of revealing just enough to make things interesting, to make you want more, without spoiling any future plots or revealing any twists (until you go back and read it again, realizing how much you missed the first time).
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 01:19:42 am
Concur. He is the Sensai.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: themerchant on January 28, 2014, 01:24:13 am
Cnaiur in TWP has some epic scenes. Obviously there is a lot more going on in his thoughts, but superficially some of it makes me laugh. Not that i would ever want to meet Cnaiur in real life or anything or hang out, he'd terrify me.

Going to the Great Tree shouting abuse in his native tongue almost starting a riot.  When they are taking Carksand and he is thinking about all the dunyain needs is his silence and he actually gasps out loud. Saubon starts freaking what is it, he just spits and says "nothing". Truth Shines, so do pigs teeth is a great line.

After cutting his throat and wandering about deranged he wonders why no one will match his gaze and even stares down Sranchammer, he then tried to get Proyas attention, and is puzzled he is getting the same look and not being paid attention to.

 Cnaiur dude you're insane and deranged, you're also wandering around having not eaten in days with a huge fresh wound on your throat which you did yourself. People aren't looking away cause they think you're a "faggot weeper"

Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on January 28, 2014, 01:31:45 am
lol Cnaiur the-most-entertaining-of-men.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 01:40:29 am
Not that i would ever want to meet Cnaiur in real life or anything or hang out

Lol.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: themerchant on January 28, 2014, 02:04:50 am
lol Cnaiur the-most-entertaining-of-men.

Indeed. lol

Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Inraus Ghost on January 28, 2014, 02:32:09 am
Inrau's death, as my name attests.

Any scene where "weak and foolish" Achamian lays waste with the Gnosis. Seriously, if he's just some low ranked shlub in the Mandate, imagine what his "betters" can do. But mostly it's the juxtaposition between his appearance/demeanor and what he's capable of.

The final scene of TTT. OK yeah, I'm kind of an Achamian fanboy. This scene sealed it for me tho. AC-DC be damned, Akka's got the biggest balls of them all.

Seswatha's dreams. I so want to know more about the first apocalypse era. The tidbits from atrocity tales only whet the hunger.

The few glimpses we get into the Chishaurim. Another mystery among the many that are barley touched upon.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Somnambulist on January 28, 2014, 04:47:37 am
The final scene of TTT. OK yeah, I'm kind of an Achamian fanboy. This scene sealed it for me tho. AC-DC be damned, Akka's got the biggest balls of them all.

Best ending to a book ever (at least, the books I've read).  "I renounce!"  Yes!
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 01:50:58 pm
The final scene of TTT. OK yeah, I'm kind of an Achamian fanboy. This scene sealed it for me tho. AC-DC be damned, Akka's got the biggest balls of them all.

Best ending to a book ever (at least, the books I've read).  "I renounce!"  Yes!

I read the series twice (I only had to a month or two for TTT when I found the TDTCB) before I found the original Three-Seas forum and realized there was TAE.

I will remember that forever.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Garet Jax on January 28, 2014, 03:05:05 pm
Pretty much any scene or description with Athjeari in it, mu mu makes me happy. 
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on January 28, 2014, 03:40:04 pm
Inrau's death, as my name attests.

Any scene where "weak and foolish" Achamian lays waste with the Gnosis. Seriously, if he's just some low ranked shlub in the Mandate, imagine what his "betters" can do. But mostly it's the juxtaposition between his appearance/demeanor and what he's capable of.

The final scene of TTT. OK yeah, I'm kind of an Achamian fanboy. This scene sealed it for me tho. AC-DC be damned, Akka's got the biggest balls of them all.

Seswatha's dreams. I so want to know more about the first apocalypse era. The tidbits from atrocity tales only whet the hunger.

The few glimpses we get into the Chishaurim. Another mystery among the many that are barley touched upon.

I really think the last line of TTT is my favorite sentence ever (can't remember it exactly, I believe its "retracing his bloodied footsteps, the Wizard limped on). If I get the opportunity to have a copy of TTT signed, I'm going to request to have that line, or part of it, inscribed as well.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 10:04:00 pm
I thought you got a book signed, Wilshire? White-Luck Warrior?

Pretty much any scene or description with Athjeari in it, mu mu makes me happy. 
(click to show/hide)

I don't think the spoiler is necessary, GJ; TTT subforum.

But The-Wind-Has-Teeth was also one of my favorite characters. Such an efficient pawn.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Francis Buck on January 28, 2014, 10:16:08 pm
Can someone remind me who Athjeari is? Drawing a major blank...
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Garet Jax on January 28, 2014, 10:23:52 pm
Can someone remind me who Athjeari is? Drawing a major blank...

Saubon's Nephew. 

Coithus Athjeari led the scouts of the Holy War.  (and was pretty fucking awesome at it IMO).  He at one point becomes known as "The Wind With Teeth" to the Kianene.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 10:42:48 pm
(and was pretty fucking awesome at it IMO).

+1.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on January 28, 2014, 11:07:43 pm
WLW and TJE Madness. But, you know, there are 3 others :)
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on January 28, 2014, 11:23:31 pm
Lol - truth. I was a greedy glutton when I got mine signed.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Gaston de Foix on February 06, 2014, 10:40:33 pm
The most memorable scenes, where you see RSB's noschii, are the scenes where Dunyain confronts Dunyain. Inrilatus v Maithanet, Kellhus v Moenghus.

Also, it's a small scene, but when Akka asks Kellhus - why didn't you heal him in relation to Xinemus. It's brilliantly done!
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Francis Buck on February 07, 2014, 12:09:16 am
The most memorable scenes, where you see RSB's noschii, are the scenes where Dunyain confronts Dunyain. Inrilatus v Maithanet, Kellhus v Moenghus.

Also, it's a small scene, but when Akka asks Kellhus - why didn't you heal him in relation to Xinemus. It's brilliantly done!

Noschii?
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on February 07, 2014, 12:13:42 am
Genius, FB.

Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Gaston.

EDIT:

I just thought to add, Gaston, I too think the Dunyain versus Dunyain are some of the best scenes in the books.

And I actually thought Kellhus kind of scrambles when he has that lapse with Achamian who then accuses Kellhus of not being divine.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Gaston de Foix on February 07, 2014, 01:00:54 pm
Thanks for the welcome Madness. I don't know how much I have to contribute tbh, everything i've thought about this series has been teased out at length somewhere on this forum!  But it's great to be hear, and read through all the posts from people who had the same thought I did and expressed it so well....

Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on February 07, 2014, 01:53:17 pm
We seek new minds to bring up past discussions. Mulling over details and theories with the same people tends to always lead to the same conclusions. I often feel like I'm in too deep to tease out anything new. Besides, participating is half the fun.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on February 07, 2014, 04:55:42 pm
Thanks for the welcome Madness. I don't know how much I have to contribute tbh, everything i've thought about this series has been teased out at length somewhere on this forum!  But it's great to be hear, and read through all the posts from people who had the same thought I did and expressed it so well....

I also refuse to believe you have no original thoughts ;). Plus the search function works here and your commentary won't be lost momentarily in the deluge of the One Thread Famine's at Westeros.

Please resurrect threads with abandon.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: MG on February 25, 2014, 10:40:35 pm
I wouldn't call it my favorite scene, but the part where Iyokus (that's not far from iyisku, btw) first summons a demon.  I had it in my head that the ishual-dunyain view that the world was mundane was basically correct.  Yes magic existed, but I thought that the existence of gods and demons was all a lie up until that point.  Turned my view of the work on its head.  I didn't not know what to make of it at first, did not really like it.  I thought the dunyain had found the magic key to manipulate the world in treating it as governed by law and now...now who the fuck knows.  The Outside is a huge trump card for everything.  Every plot by everyone can be superseded by the great darkness that comes before :)
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on February 27, 2014, 01:23:53 pm
I wouldn't call it my favorite scene, but the part where Iyokus (that's not far from iyisku, btw) first summons a demon.  I had it in my head that the ishual-dunyain view that the world was mundane was basically correct.  Yes magic existed, but I thought that the existence of gods and demons was all a lie up until that point.  Turned my view of the work on its head.  I didn't not know what to make of it at first, did not really like it.  I thought the dunyain had found the magic key to manipulate the world in treating it as governed by law and now...now who the fuck knows.  The Outside is a huge trump card for everything.  Every plot by everyone can be superseded by the great darkness that comes before :)

Big +1 the bold. I stopped moving and the world turned around me for a moment when I read Iyokus looking into the Outside.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Kosoter on March 05, 2014, 03:51:40 pm
I think my favourite scene was when Akka comes back from torture and ciphrangs to the horrifying reality of the Holy War. When he finally creeps into Esmenet's room after all they've been through together and he stammers "where will it be next time?". For all the suffering and naked cruelty in these books, I think that simple scene really cut me deeper than any of the others on a personal level. Akka never knew peace in his dreams or will with his death and he endured it all because she was his morning...and she does him like that? I think I genuinely hated Esmi for a bit after that.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on March 05, 2014, 04:45:19 pm
Akka's life was/is so full of heartbreak. I think its what leads me to always be rooting for him. Fate is not kind.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on March 06, 2014, 03:58:02 am
I think my favourite scene was when Akka comes back from torture and ciphrangs to the horrifying reality of the Holy War. When he finally creeps into Esmenet's room after all they've been through together and he stammers "where will it be next time?". For all the suffering and naked cruelty in these books, I think that simple scene really cut me deeper than any of the others on a personal level. Akka never knew peace in his dreams or will with his death and he endured it all because she was his morning...and she does him like that? I think I genuinely hated Esmi for a bit after that.

I have legitimately cried reading that scene a number of times.

Also, welcome to the Second Apocalypse, Kosoter.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Sharmat on May 02, 2014, 08:37:24 am
I think I genuinely hated Esmi for a bit after that.
That was a painful scene, but I hated Kellhus for it, not Esmi. Esmenet had no chance against Kellhus.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: EkyannusIII on May 06, 2014, 11:48:09 pm
I might have hated Esmi less if she wasn't perfectly happy being a cum dumpster apart from Kellhus' seductions. Let's not forget that she becomes "Sarcellus" concubine right after leaving Shimeh on pilgrimage while looking for Akka, that she does that guy in the alleyway for kicks, and that she has spent twenty years with Kellhus despite having him explained to her by Akka and realizing that she is a "prize mare" (her own words) and despite admitting that she still does love Akka.  Clearly, love and sex do not mix for this woman. Why should we pity her? It's the fate she wanted.

Incidentally, if one wants to accuse Bakker of sexism, the mere fact that all three women in the first trilogy are whores (which A Cracked Moon seemed so obsessed with) pales before the characterization of Esmenet; she is literally the distillation of every sexist, misogynistic stereotype of women - a pretty, conniving slut who climbs the social ladder on her back with knees spread open, who makes calculating decisions in terms of her self interest and the power of her vagina without concern for whom it hurts, who is happy to play the role of the woman in danger needing rescue when there is a man (Akka) who can be swayed by it but who drops him after he loses his usefulness for the first hung alpha stud (Kellhus) who comes along, and who issues commands like she was born to rule and somehow conquered all of this herself
WLW spoilers:
 
(click to show/hide)
despite the fact that she has gained it all by being the sex toy of men who's achievements she could never emulate in open competition where trading sex for power was not an option. She's the worst character in the books, I hate her,
(click to show/hide)
and I will be happy when she dies.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on May 07, 2014, 12:59:55 am
lmao wow. You really do hate her
She's the worst character in the books, I hate her

Seems like an understatement. I like the vehemence though.

btw TTT subforum. Watch spoilers.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Crtha on May 07, 2014, 03:33:27 am
Wow, Eky. Not to say that Esme isn't annoying, but...
I've known people like Esme who have shared similar experiences with me. She rings true to me as a person, not as just a simple archetype.
For kicks?  I think she is suffering pretty badly in that scene and it was a desperate attempt at empowerment.  And that is when people do stupid, shitty, self-harming things.
I don't see why we should view Akka as deserving her as some kind of due for his suffering... also, she chooses Kellhus after she knows the truth about him, so...

That said, I respect your opinion and I won't argue much further.

I think the male characters conform to basically male 'heroic' archetypes and exhibit just as many major faults as the females.
Maybe its easier to empathize with them and rationalize their actions, perhaps because Bakker is male and explains them better.
Maybe casting the females as archetypes and then trying show to their humanity beyond that was a mistake or a failure.  I'm not sure.

I've believe most people are capable of the shit Bakker's characters pull, and find myself able to sympathize with them.  Don't think I would choose any of them for friendship status though.
Except maybe Proyas or Mimara, they seem alright.

Speaking of character hate though, Akka is probably my least favourite.
He is a true neckbeard, arrogant and selfish - almost never admits his mistakes or takes responsibility and is usually wrong.
He betrays or abandons all of his friends and affiliates and the number of people's deaths that he is responsible for is staggering. 
He doesn't even try to help out Inrau, betrays his school anyway, he just gets drunk and watches Xin die, doesn't warn Proyas about Kellhus.
(click to show/hide)
The one time I thought he did anything right was deciding to give up his shitty life for Esme, and that got fucked up for him.  Felt bad for him then.

Sorry for the offtopicness.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Alia on May 07, 2014, 11:41:22 am
Well, I'm a woman and I don't hate Esmenet, I mostly just feel sorry for her. Born as she was, she never really had a chance in her life, whatever she did, she would be fucked (pun intended). Since her mother wouldn't teach her reading stars, she could either sell her body or sell herself into slavery (which would be even worse).
So she became a whore. And here appears a problem. I guess a lot of men expect a typical whore to be more like Mimara - to hate her life, men who abuse her and be broken by what has happened to her. Esmi is different. She tries to find pleasure in what she does - and that's her way of getting even with the men. And while it's easy to feel sorry for poor abused Mimara, it's much harder to feel sorry for her mother.

As for why she stayed with Kellhus, even though Akka told her everything. Yes, you can say that she did it for power and wealth. But maybe, as Akka himself seems to believe, she did it, because Kellhus promised her that he will find her daughter.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Srancy on May 07, 2014, 10:51:01 pm
Akka deserved everything that he got. Mandate Schoolmen annoy me to no end.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on May 08, 2014, 01:20:18 pm
It is always interesting to me the varied opinions people have about characters in these books. Makes me wonder what life experiences lead people to sympathise with some and hate others.

But this is getting off topic. Someone should make a "which character do you loathe the most" topic if you'd like to continue.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on May 08, 2014, 07:11:58 pm
I think the male characters conform to basically male 'heroic' archetypes and exhibit just as many major faults as the females.
Maybe its easier to empathize with them and rationalize their actions, perhaps because Bakker is male and explains them better.
Maybe casting the females as archetypes and then trying show to their humanity beyond that was a mistake or a failure.  I'm not sure.

I think these are interesting thoughts...

Born as she was, she never really had a chance in her life, whatever she did, she would be fucked (pun intended). Since her mother wouldn't teach her reading stars, she could either sell her body or sell herself into slavery (which would be even worse).
So she became a whore. And here appears a problem. I guess a lot of men expect a typical whore to be more like Mimara - to hate her life, men who abuse her and be broken by what has happened to her. Esmi is different. She tries to find pleasure in what she does - and that's her way of getting even with the men. And while it's easy to feel sorry for poor abused Mimara, it's much harder to feel sorry for her mother.

As for why she stayed with Kellhus, even though Akka told her everything. Yes, you can say that she did it for power and wealth. But maybe, as Akka himself seems to believe, she did it, because Kellhus promised her that he will find her daughter.

Also, interesting thoughts. I do think "motherhood" and the idea of self-sacrifice is definitely going to come up somewhere in the rest of the series.

But this is getting off topic. Someone should make a "which character do you loathe the most" topic if you'd like to continue.

Sorry, Boss. You know I can't resist understand and discussing the Bakker/Gender crux.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on May 11, 2014, 07:05:48 pm
If I'm to track my investment in the series on an emotional level.  I would have to say that the prologue of TDTCB was an attention-getter.  I always found Kellhus first experiences with the outside world disturbingly similar to Shelley's Frankenstein's Monster when he first escapes and has intelligence but lack the awareness to cognitively understand the world, so his mode of description is always very weird.  I was hooked by the Battle of Kiyuth.  "Battle-prose" is something that only a select few genre writers can truly excel at, Kiyuth showed me that Bakker would be no slouch when it came to the intricacies of tactics and localized strategies.  But I was genuinely sold by the series when Conphas returns to Momemn for his triumph.  I, no hyperbole, had to reread that chapter three times because I didn't quite understand how Xerius had out maneuvered his nephew.  Every time now, I get chills as soon as Conphas stops being passive-aggressive and becomes supplicant before his uncle, like someone flipped a switch his demeanor.

But my all time favorite scene is actually something that seems really slight in comparison to the other set-piece moments in the books.  When Skaurus observes the tactical situation at Mengedda.  Saubon orders his longbowmen to basically take pot shots at the enemy commander and Grandees.  When Skaurus isn't fazed at all and just pulls out a knife and starts filing his nails, I remember I was reading TWP in the University Law Library and I guffawed so loudly at the audacity of this Sapatishah, that I was asked to leave premises. Lol  I miss Skaurus, he deserved more page-time, oh well.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Madness on May 12, 2014, 01:32:19 pm
Lol - that's a great story, Pansa. Hmm... I really do enjoy Conphas' return to Momemn; so many great moments in TDTCB.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: MG on May 13, 2014, 04:09:37 pm
Lol - that's a great story, Pansa. Hmm... I really do enjoy Conphas' return to Momemn; so many great moments in TDTCB.

Bam!  That is awesome--everytime I reread I enjoy hearing Conphas twisting the world to fit the way he likes it.

+1 H/P for more Skaurus!!!
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Sharmat on May 14, 2014, 01:31:33 pm
Hating Esmenet for separating love from sex is like hating a chef for separating cooking from eating.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Great Scald on September 06, 2015, 01:50:06 pm
When Skaurus isn't fazed at all and just pulls out a knife and starts filing his nails, I remember I was reading TWP in the University Law Library and I guffawed so loudly at the audacity of this Sapatishah, that I was asked to leave premises. Lol  I miss Skaurus, he deserved more page-time, oh well.

The Warrior-Prophet has a handful of funny moments in the middle of the grim seriousness - the narrators are all grim and gloomy and self-hating, but the omniscient POV has its moments of unintentional comedy.

I don't have the e-book at hand right now, but the omniscient passage of the Holy War's genocide in Shigek especially sticks out. It starts out describing how the Holy War spiraled out of control and started massacring civilians, and Bakker waxes poetically about bloodshed causing more bloodshed, goes into a grimdark litany about the raping and pillaging, and it all gets so over-the-top brutal that it starts being hilarious in a black-comedy way. Something along these lines:

"The Holy War descended into carnage and rape, for ever are all men deceived, and finally the Men of the Tusk began killing one another...General Phallus Majorus attempted to stop the madness, but they snapped him into tiny pieces."

I remember laughing at the deadpan ending of that part. Bakker's a lot better at unintentional jokes than intentional ones.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: themerchant on September 06, 2015, 04:05:52 pm
Cnaiur makes me laugh a lot. Just viewed from outside the narrative. He's walking about thinking all this crazy-shit, basically everyone is terrified of him. He is having his inner monologue, while sneaking into Carksand, and realizes the only thing Kellhus needs his silence and gasps out loud. Thinking about how much of a fright that must have gave Saubon makes amuses me no end.

Here is Saubon finally about to get his only desire to be a king in his own right by his own hand, the prophet has confirmed it would happen... just need to get to the gate... then suddenly the most terrifying man you've ever met let's out this massive gasp of alarm(fuck i'm on an international flight and i forgot my baby gasp).  Then in a panic you ask him what's wrong and he just stares you down,says "nothing", and spits at your feet.

This whole bit is sandwiched in between him interacting with the Team Motto "Truth Shines" , starting off gently with just replying so do pigs teeth , to getting a bit more extreme and headbutting someone to death for saying it.

All the above is happening while Cnaiur is thinking "The Madness is lifting"

Aye Cnaiur your sanity is really coming on leaps and bounds.

Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Great Scald on September 06, 2015, 09:47:27 pm
Here's the passage I was talking about:

Quote
Then, as though massacre possessed its own momentum, the Holy War’s occupation of Shigek degenerated into wanton carnage, though for what reason, no one knew. Perhaps it was the rumours of poisoned dates and pomegranates. Perhaps bloodshed simply begat more bloodshed. Perhaps their faith’s certainty was as terrifying as it was beautiful. What could be more true than destroying the false?

Word of the Inrithi atrocities spread among the Shigeki. Before the altar and in the streets the Priests of Fane claimed that the Solitary God punished them for welcoming the idolaters. The Shigeki began barricading themselves in their great, domed tabernacles. With their wives and children they gathered wailing on the soft carpets, crying out their sins, begging the God for forgiveness. The thunder of battering rams at the gates would be their only answer. Then the rush of iron-eyed swordsmen.

Every tabernacle across the North Bank witnessed a massacre. The Men of the Tusk hacked the screaming penitents into silence, then they kicked over the tripods, smashed the altars, tore the tapestries from the walls and the kneeling rugs from the floors. Anything carrying the taint of Fanimry they heaved into colossal fires. Beneath monstrous towers of smoke, dogs ate the heaped dead and licked blood from the broad steps.

None suffered more horribly than the Fanic priests. At night, the Inrithi used them for drunken sport, slicing open their bellies, leading them like mules by their own entrails. Some were blinded, some strangled, some were forced to watch their wives and daughters raped. Others were flayed alive. A great many were burned as witches.

In red-walled Nagogris, the maddened Men of the Tusk actually began slaughtering one another. Almost as soon as the Holy War had arrived at the city gates, the Shigeki governors remaining in the city sent emissaries to Ikurei Conphas, offering to surrender to the Empire in exchange for Imperial protection. Conphas immediately dispatched General Numemarius and a strong cohort of Kidruhil cavalry. Through some fatal mistake, however, the gates were thrown open to a large force of Thunyeri, who promptly began massacring and plundering the city. The Kidruhil attempted to intervene, and pitched battles broke out in the streets. When General Numemarius finally met with Yalgrota Sranchammer under flag of truce, the giant brained him.

Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Great Scald on September 22, 2015, 02:29:57 am
Cnaiur makes me laugh a lot. Just viewed from outside the narrative.

I agree. The Darkness That Comes Before has a lot more comic relief when you reread the Steppe chapters the second time around. Some of it is pitch-black comedy, darker than Sranc sperm, but it still gets a few laughs out of me.

(The part where Cnair and Kellhus are squabbling and arguing about military strategy while they're on the run, and then Serw butts in by yelling "Shut up, Cnair, do what he tells you!" is pretty funny. Cnair is so astonished that he almost forgets to get angry, as if an inanimate object just yelled at him.)


Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: MG on September 22, 2015, 09:49:37 pm
the final scenes between Cnaiur and Conphas are some of my favorites--Cnaiur losing it by degree and Conphas showing off an impenetrable egoism.  i've met people like Conphas and have wondered if some degree of violence could shatter their view of the world--Bakker made a plausible character survive with his illusion intact until the end?  i can't tell if Conphas is really seeing his world crumble or not, i could very well think that he thinks it's still going to end in his favor via miracle or something
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: The Great Scald on September 23, 2015, 11:36:03 am
the final scenes between Cnaiur and Conphas are some of my favorites--Cnaiur losing it by degree and Conphas showing off an impenetrable egoism.  i've met people like Conphas and have wondered if some degree of violence could shatter their view of the world--Bakker made a plausible character survive with his illusion intact until the end?  i can't tell if Conphas is really seeing his world crumble or not, i could very well think that he thinks it's still going to end in his favor via miracle or something

Bakker's "pride is a defect from the womb" line does suggest that Conphas is a clinical sociopath from birth and can never have his ego shattered, no matter how many times Cnair ass-raped him. He's what criminal psychologists would call a pathological narcissist.
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: Wilshire on October 13, 2015, 12:53:39 pm
Oh I like that. Will have to remember that, it makes a lovely insult. "Pathological narcissist". That's just great
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: MG on October 13, 2015, 01:54:34 pm
the final scenes between Cnaiur and Conphas are some of my favorites--Cnaiur losing it by degree and Conphas showing off an impenetrable egoism.  i've met people like Conphas and have wondered if some degree of violence could shatter their view of the world--Bakker made a plausible character survive with his illusion intact until the end?  i can't tell if Conphas is really seeing his world crumble or not, i could very well think that he thinks it's still going to end in his favor via miracle or something

Bakker's "pride is a defect from the womb" line does suggest that Conphas is a clinical sociopath from birth and can never have his ego shattered, no matter how many times Cnair ass-raped him. He's what criminal psychologists would call a pathological narcissist.

it almost seemed like Kellhus snared Conphas in the pride/defect speech.  that would have been a really interesting turn of events.

then Kellhus moves south with an overwhelming force, there is no drama about taking Shimeh.  any odd implications in that?
Title: Re: Favorite Scenes
Post by: robizeratul on March 12, 2016, 02:36:21 am
My favorite scene, and in my mind the most terrifying scene in the books is with Kellhus talking to Cnaiur before meeting with the holy war. He says something like: 
 
"we will come to them from the darkness,we will be whatever we say we are" 
 
It's just simple and beautiful, an amazing scene.