The Second Apocalypse

Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:04:20 pm

Title: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:04:20 pm
Quote from: Jorge
No, sadly not yet confirmed on IMDB (someday!)

Here are currently popular actors and actresses that I can see filling the roles (click on the actor names to see a picture):

Kellhus - Chris Hemsworth (http://rawrgg.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Chris-Hemsworth-marries-over-holidays.jpg), but basically you just need to cast an Aryan pretty-boy with some range.
Maithanet - Ditto.
Esmenet - this one was hard... you need a skilled actress who can do 'used up prostitute', 'erudite concubine' and 'empress of the empire'. I'm going with Salma Hayek (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Salma_Hayek_Deauville_2012.jpg/220px-Salma_Hayek_Deauville_2012.jpg).
Serwe - Hayden Panettiere (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Hayden_Panettiere_2009.jpg/220px-Hayden_Panettiere_2009.jpg)
Cnaiur - Dalip Singh (http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMzMTk5MjU4N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNjU0NDE1._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg)
Drusas Achmian - Erick Avari (http://osmovies.homestead.com/Mummy/Avari/1/erick_avari_stargate_b.jpg), although you'd need someone to play him as a boy and as a teenager in Atyersus.
Ikurei Comphas -Jonathan Rhys Meyers (http://topnews.in/files/Jonathan.Rhys.Meyers.jpg), again an Aryan pretty boy, but someone who can pull of "narcisistic psychopath" with no problem.
Krijates Xinemus - Ashraf Barhom (http://91.207.61.14/m/uploads/v_p_images/2009/01/2929_1_screenshot.png) (he was good in Agora and Coriolanus)
Eleazaras - Donald Southerland (http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/DonaldSutherland_thumb.jpg) (come on, admit it, it would be badass!)
Iyokus - McCauley Culkin (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02134/Macaulay_2134207b.jpg) (he looks like he's been hitting the chanv pretty hard recently)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:04:30 pm
Quote from: sologdin
ha.  nice.

i always picture cnaiur as richard kiel, though he's a bit old now for he role.

dicaprio as saubon.  synthese head is steve O, when he shaves his eyebrows &c off.

xerius - tim curry.  malowebi, keith david, please?

if tony jay were still alive, he could voice the no-god.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:04:38 pm
Quote from: Auriga
My ideal cast would look something like this, just off the top of my head:

Achamian - a classic "unwilling protagonist" role. Any older actor who's good at weary anti-hero characters. Gary Oldman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000198/) in a black beard would be an obvious choice.
Kellhus - not an easy one, since the role is a pretty complicated one; it needs the solemn aura and awe-inspiring gravitas of a Biblical prophet, the capacity to be both evil and very likeable at the same time, and most importantly, it needs a lot of meta-acting. Kellhus himself is a chameleon who is acting half the time. Michael Fassbender (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1055413/), who is a pretty decent actor (his slightly android-looking face is only a plus here), could probably pull off the role. Although I'd choose someone less famous.
Esmenet - again, a harder role for an actress, since she goes from "worn-out hooker" to "empress regent". Needs a big range of skills. Monica Bellucci (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000899/), if she was a more fluent English-speaker, would be ideal for the older Esmenet in the later books.
Cnaiür - this one should be more about body language and menacing looks, than the actual dialogue of the character. The descriptions of Cnaiür remind me of Conan the Barbarian. But it's really not a role for a Hollywood actor, since he should look hard-faced, weatherbeaten, and about ten years older than his actual age due to harsh outdoor living on the steppe. This is a role that needs a convincingly brutal man who has been hardened by life - a former prison guard or military veteran or lifelong oil-drill worker could do the role more justice.
Serwë - not a hard role, since she is an eternal doormat and victim of those around her. (In the story, her actions are mostly reactions to whatever Kellhus and Cnaiür are doing to her). Emily Browning (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0115161/), with her wide pale eyes and vulnerable look, would be my pick.
Saubon - someone with classic "Prince Charming" handsome looks and an aura of authority, a stereotypical chivalric hero at the first glance who's actually full of insecurity and self-loathing. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0182666/), who's done similar roles, would be perfect for this one.
Eleäzaras - as the OP already said, the most awesome actor for the part would be Donald Sutherland (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000661/). It's one of those classic "old supervillain" roles, the sort of guest role which just needs to be filled by an old British stage veteran with an IMDB database longer than the rest of the cast put together.

Aurang - the face of the half-bird creature would be mostly CGI, obviously. But the disturbingly androgynous voice of Rosalinda Celentano (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0147988/) (who has already played Satan) would add a hundred times more menace to the character.

Soundtrack should be done by Geinoh Yamashirogumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geinoh_Yamashirogumi). Their haunting soundtrack for "Akira" was perfect; just give them medieval European instruments instead of Japanese ones, and they'll do the job.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:04:51 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Kellhus
(http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/4155-5456.gif)

Maithanet
(http://cdn.showbizspy.com/static/SGY-0223012.jpg)

Esmenet
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/database/kimkardashian/kimkardashian300b.jpg)

Serwe
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Paris_Hilton_2009.jpg/220px-Paris_Hilton_2009.jpg)

Cnaiur
(http://www.expressnightout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Robert-Irvine-2.jpg)

Drusas Achmian
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_B1LlYh6iKqs/TBCU_9lZytI/AAAAAAAABqQ/OcxG1DGg92M/s1600/jason-alexander.jpg)

Ikurei Comphas
(http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-9/tom-cruise-crazy.JPG)

Krijates Xinemus
(http://top-people.starmedia.com/tmp/swotti/cacheYMLSBCBWDWXSBWFUUGVVCGXLLVBLB3BSZQ==/imgbill%20pullman2.jpg)

Eleazaras
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Jeremy_Irons_%28Berlin_Film_Festival_2011%29.jpg/220px-Jeremy_Irons_%28Berlin_Film_Festival_2011%29.jpg)

Iyokus
(http://images.triplem.com.au/2009/01/29/117609/600x400-steve-buscemi-creepy-actors-600x400.jpg)


Director
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjIwOTY5NDgzNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjE3NjQxMw@@._V1._SY314_CR5,0,214,314_.jpg)

Easily 10/10 Movie of the Century. I'm currently on standby awaiting offers.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:04 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
I've recently been picturing Achamian as Chiwetel Ejiofor.

Kellhus I've kinda got Michael Fassbender in mind, but moreso.

Cnaiur I've always pictured as a Chen Chang type, from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon .

Esmenet, I'd go with Kerry Washington, Halle Berry kind of thing.

Serwe probably Amanda Seyfried.

If I were casting this I'd love to play up possible visual contrasts. I'd want Kellhus and Achamian to be different races (obviously this would apply with Esmenet too and would provide an additional contrast to Serwe).  This would make it fun to layer in other inversions and subversions.  The text already actively and deliberately undermines genre expectations, I'd love to go all out with the casting to complement those themes since fantasy films/tv typically are 100% lily-white.  an Asian would work great here since the typical American fiction treatment of asian males is to emasculate them (unless they're a martial arts expert, which Cnaiur is not, the white-guy-hero-kellhus is the martial arts expert).  The names work with this as well, Esmenet, Cnaiur and Achamian all have 'forrin' sounding names.  And while Kellhus and Serwe aren't easy to swallow, they're more familiar, I think, so make the whitest names the whitest characters.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:13 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
Well, in terms of skin colour, with the books that have a face on them, who's on the cover of TDTCB, WP, TTT, JE & WLW?

I've assumed TTT has Akka on the front (to me the guy looks hard at first - but if you look closer at the eye, he instead looks worried. Amazing artist! Amazing...). Anyway, he appears to be white skinned?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:22 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Quote from: lockesnow
An Asian would work great here since the typical American fiction treatment of asian males is to emasculate them (unless they're a martial arts expert, which Cnaiur is not, the white-guy-hero-kellhus is the martial arts expert).

Interesting you would say that because I feel that's the case with the caucasian American male. Then again, all I watch  on TV is Modern Family  :)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:29 pm
Quote from: Jorge
Achamian is Ketyai. He is dark-skinned, black haired, and brown-eyed. I picture him as vaguely Arabic or dark-skinned Indian type. In PoN he is kinda fat and about 40, whereas in TAE he's thin and 60ish.

I really hope he disintegrates the Nazi asshole at the end of the book.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:36 pm
Quote from: Jorge
Ajokli, I don't know how you came to picture Kellhus like that... but he is obviously very capable of being disarming, funny and congenial, so maybe you're closer to the truth than the rest of us.

Bucemi is goddamn perfect for Iyokus.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:43 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Just a few random comments:

Quote from: lockesnow
Kellhus I've kinda got Michael Fassbender in mind, but moreso.
Fassbender is also pretty close how I imagined Kellhus. He's a rather strange-looking actor, with his cliché handsome face and high cheekbones and row of perfect white teeth. With those looks, and his slightly repressed mannerisms, the guy was great as the android in "Prometheus". And he'd also fit well as Kellhus, a perfected human being who is mentally an alien.

(http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/prometheus-michael-fassbender_400.jpg)

Quote
Esmenet, I'd go with Kerry Washington, Halle Berry kind of thing.
Black but not too black, in other words.  ;)

IMO, it's silly to insert token blacks where they don't exist in the source material. I don't see the point in having these visual contrasts, just for the sake of contrasts. Neither does in make sense in the fictional universe if a couple Ketyai people happen to be black (without this ever being commented on), for no particular reason. It's just gratuitous. If there really was a need for more blacks in a hypothetical "Second Apocalypse" movie, I'd enlarge the role of Zsoronga or something.

I'd cast Esmenet based on her book description, as pale and black-haired. The name sounds a bit Old Testament in my ears for some reason (and I think Bakker even said the Three Seas were based on that world), so Esmenet should look like she could pass in Biblical Israel. I'd pick an actress from the Middle-East, Greece, South Italy, thereabouts. The middle-aged Monica Bellucci as she portrayed Mary Magdalene is pretty much how I imagined Esmenet:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k-bPNZiL84A/SiG7MlOmDwI/AAAAAAAAA08/pdTgzeVf66I/s1600/top_te75.jpg)

Quote
an Asian would work great here since the typical American fiction treatment of asian males is to emasculate them (unless they're a martial arts expert, which Cnaiur is not, the white-guy-hero-kellhus is the martial arts expert).
Right on. IMO, Cnaiur is the only character where a "race lift" would actually work. The names of the Scylvendi all sound Turkic to me, and their savage steppe-warrior culture is very inspired by Mongols, so it wouldn't be a stretch to give them an Asian look as well. If anything, it just adds to their "alienness" in the Three Seas. I also agree that it would be a fun role-reversal if an Asian guy was given the most violent and testosterone-filled role, since that totally fucks with the American audience's expectations.

It shouldn't be just any Asian actor, though. Cnaiur should look brutal, crude, weatherbeaten and prematurely aged, a hardened look which is light-years away from the typical Hollywood Asian.

Quote
The names work with this as well, Esmenet, Cnaiur and Achamian all have 'forrin' sounding names.  And while Kellhus and Serwe aren't easy to swallow, they're more familiar, I think, so make the whitest names the whitest characters.
"Esmenet" sounds Biblical, "Cnaiur" sounds Turkic, "Achamian" sounds vaguely Greco-Roman and about as furrin as "Kellhus" does.

"Serwë" is the only obvious Tolkien-inspired fantasy name where I get a "lily-white" mental image. (Which the character also is.)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:05:52 pm
Quote from: Auriga
A few ideas on the non-human characters:

Nonmen are not hard to put onscreen. They should be huge and marble-skinned, with the bodies of godlike Greco-Roman statues. Superhuman muscled bodies. The features in their stern faces should be very harsh and clearly-defined, coarse to the point of looking non-human. The god-aliens in "Prometheus" look like my mental image of them:

(http://coronacomingattractions.com/sites/default/files/news/Weta_Engineer_prometheus.jpg)

Compare with:

(http://i.imgur.com/ZAeJs.jpg)

I can imagine the Ishroi would look like superhuman Greek gods when they stride into battle and annihilate their enemies by the thousands. Cleric's battle scenes would be pretty damn impressive.


As for the Sranc, their chalk-white Nonman faces shouldn't be male. Not modeled on the features of Nonmen, but on those of Nonwomen. It just adds to their menace if they are creepily androgynous creatures, who have male genitals and grinning almost-female faces. A "stark beauty", as Bakker put it in the first book. In a (very hypothetical) movie, I'd imagine the androgynous Sranc faces to look a bit like this HR Giger painting:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jjp5rKKVEHY/T94FUfYQqkI/AAAAAAAACBY/s2mWj21eM2w/s1600/giger_li_i.jpg)

Which is based on a real-life woman, Li Tobler:

(http://hrgiger.canalblog.com/Li_B_W.JPG)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:06:24 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Quote from: Jorge
Ajokli, I don't know how you came to picture Kellhus like that... but he is obviously very capable of being disarming, funny and congenial, so maybe you're closer to the truth than the rest of us.

Bucemi is goddamn perfect for Iyokus.

To be honest, I was messing around with the majority of them. I'd rather not have a film/show made at all, it usually kills the imagination for me.  Buscemi would be a great Iyokus, though.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:06:32 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
I share Auriga's thoughts. Including about the Prometheus aliens. As soon as I saw that guy in the theater I thought "Oh, hey. Nonman!" I love your idea for the Sranc as well. Imagining that inhumanly beautiful Giger face on a grotesque body...leering and baying...creepy image.

I'm gonna go against the whole purpose of the thread though by suggesting that this film would best be done as an animated miniseries. And no that doesn't mean a Japanese inspired anime. Shame western animation is largely dead.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:06:39 pm
Quote from: Francis Buck
I also think this series would be served well by animation. Possibly even CGI animation, along the lines of something Blizzard would do, though less cartoonish.

But if I was going to cast a live-action adaptation, I think I'd go with mostly unknowns, even though in my head I do have weird pictures of the characters. I've always imagined Achamian as Ray Winstone for some reason.

(http://raywinstone.fansiter.com/pictures/closeup1.jpg)

I can definitely see Fassbender as Kellhus though. I also picture Conphas as Ryan Gosling, god knows why. I actually think he could play the part perfectly, though he looks like nothing like the description. Cnaiur I just picture as a real-life version of Nathan Explosion from Metalocalypse. Weird, I know.

Steve Buscemi as Iyokus is brilliant.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:06:45 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Ray Winstone isn't a bad choice for Achamian, although I tend to imagine him as a more scrawny and bookish type (so I put down Gary Oldman as my pick), sorta like Gandalf's younger loser brother.

A few more comments on Nonman visuals, just because I'm bored this Tuesday night and enjoy brainstorming:

Quote from: The Sharmat
I share Auriga's thoughts. Including about the Prometheus aliens. As soon as I saw that guy in the theater I thought "Oh, hey. Nonman!"
Same here, although it was a re-read of WLW that brought the aliens from Ridley Scott's new movie to mind when I read Cleric's description. The comparison between the Nonmen and the Prometheus god-aliens is a pretty apt one, not just visually but also thematically.

The Nonmen should have the superhuman bodies of Greek gods and heroes, but they shouldn't all look exactly the same (although humans can't always tell). The different "castes" of Nonmen would have different body types as well. Nil'giccas would have a more "regal figure", tall and evenly muscled all over, with an almost "mathematical" perfect physique. This statue of Doryphoros (http://www.realfitnessblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/doryphoros2.jpg) is an example of this body ideal. OTOH, the typical member of the Ishroi caste would look different and have an upper body like a mountain of muscle, the same buff bodybuilder physique as the Hercules statue (http://mollydickerson.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/aa-herc-farnese-2.jpg). As for the Nonwomen (before they all died, obviously), I imagine they'd have a tall and curvy "alpha female" physique, a bit like the Venus of Arles (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Venus_of_Arles_Louvre_Ma439_n01.jpg/321px-Venus_of_Arles_Louvre_Ma439_n01.jpg), but with bald heads.

Quote
I love your idea for the Sranc as well. Imagining that inhumanly beautiful Giger face on a grotesque body...leering and baying...creepy image.
Much of the Consult stuff is rather Giger-ish if you try to visualize it. The surreal combo of the bio-mechanical and the morbidly sexual is a HR Giger speciality. If anyone could design the Consult visuals and put them onscreen, it'd be him.

(It really makes the Sranc more disturbing if they have serene, harmonious, almost-female faces. Also, giving them the faces of Nonwomen makes sense as psychological terrorism against the Nonmen, since that's what the Sranc were invented for in the first place.)

Phew, that was a pretty long post.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:06:55 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
Quote from: Ajokli
Easily 10/10 Movie of the Century. I'm currently on standby awaiting offers.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Is there a "Post of the Year" award on this forum?  I nominate Ajokli's reply!  Kellhus, Cnauir, Conphas -- all inspired choices!  And George Costanza as Achamian?  Absolute genius!

But seriously, I don't think this can ever be turned into film, or at least turned into a good film.  Just as some men are said to be "man's man," this is a "book's book."  Too much reflection, too much intellect, too much introspection.  Not to mention the gargantuan worldbuilding -- just look at all those whining 8th graders who complain this book is too difficult to get into on some internet review sites.

But of course I have my 8th grader moments too.  Like that "scene" in WLW where the Swayal floats above the darkened field, blooming as flowers in their yellow robes, illuminating the world with eerie sorcerous light, with endless masses of seething Srancs howling and surging toward the Great Ordeal...  I remember whooping and shouting with excitement when reading it!  Oh man what I wouldn't give to see that on the screen!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:03 pm
Quote from: Madness
Just a couple thoughts. Fassbender is an inspired choice for Kellhus. However, I would put Pitt over Fassbender currently for two reasons.

Firstly, Pitt could probably get away with acting just about any age between late twenties to early old age at this point physically. Not to mention, his Benjamin Button experiences with CGI but specifically programming that CGI: "For this pupose, Pitt's facial motions were digitally analyzed as he performed a large set of standardized dynamic expressions. 'Brad spend six months practicing about two-hundred facial expressions - learning to control his face in very precise ways,' [Steve] Preeg [of Digital Domain] recalls" (p184, See What I'm Saying. Preeg was the supervisor for the team doing the work on the Benjamin Button movie.

Fassbender is an inspired pick but until he does this, Pitt's my pick lol.

Oldman is a wicked pick for Achamian. He'd probably even age suitably if they ever made TAE trilogy as well.

I haven't figured out tags and such, thus far Truth Shines but this forum is severely limited. Jeff Daniels and Jason Alexander were classic and Giger-Consult is AWESOME! Bakker and Giger would probably destroy my mind. Auriga has the award in my mind for 2012, if not purely for comedy - until Auriga is beaten, of course. If I can figure out the tags or changing titles after a certain number of posts or something, I will.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:12 pm
Quote from: sologdin
pitt was my first thought, too.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:19 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Auriga
Much of the Consult stuff is rather Giger-ish if you try to visualize it. The surreal combo of the bio-mechanical and the morbidly sexual is a HR Giger speciality. If anyone could design the Consult visuals and put them onscreen, it'd be him.
And that very much goes for the Inchoroi themselves. though pallid and translucent rather than gray-scale and shiny. Geiger's art would be able to incorporate vestigial organs pretty easily as well, which their original mouths seem to be. Hell, I just realized...like the xenomorph, the Inchoroi have heads in their mouths.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:26 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: The Sharmat
And that very much goes for the Inchoroi themselves. though pallid and translucent rather than gray-scale and shiny.
Yeah, I was rather thinking of Golgotterath's design and so on, when I said that the bio-mechanical look is fitting. I tend to picture Golgotterath as dead organic material, so the artistic style of Giger is what came to mind. Think of the derelict spaceship in the first "Alien" movie (one of his best designs) for some visual help.

Quote
Geiger's art would be able to incorporate vestigial organs pretty easily as well, which their original mouths seem to be. Hell, I just realized...like the xenomorph, the Inchoroi have heads in their mouths.
Right, the Inchoroi are described as tall semi-aquatic creatures with two heads, and the smaller humanoid ones are inside "a set of crocodilian jaws" (as Bakker put it). I definitely got an Alien vibe from that part, even though the Inchoroi have whole heads inside their original mouths and not just extendable jaws. The description of the Inchoroi, with slimy translucent flesh and humanoid faces covered in a watery membrane, make me think of this:

(http://conceptartworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Prometheus_Concept_Art_Ivan_Manzella_14a.jpg)

Although the original heads of the Inchoroi should look like nothing human. IIRC, they rewrote their own genes to grow humanoid faces and cocks, after they came into contact with Nonmen.

It's also pretty interesting that Bakker is always using the metaphors of oysters and fish and other sea creatures, when describing Aurang's looks.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:34 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
I'd suspect a humanocentric universe even outside of Earwa. Particuarly given the damnation reach extends to other worlds.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:41 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Quote from: Truth Shines
this is a "book's book."  Too much reflection, too much intellect, too much introspection.  Not to mention the gargantuan worldbuilding -- just look at all those whining 8th graders who complain this book is too difficult to get into on some internet review sites.

I wholeheartedly agree. I simply could not bear seeing it get the LOTR treatment. I used to love Jackson's films but for some reason I can't  even make it past the prologue anymore without cringing at the cheesiness.

and don't get me started with GoT
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:48 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
What do they mean it's too hard to get in to? Do they mean they can't understand everything instantly? I guess if it was an instruction booklet, I'd pay that as a valid critique.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:07:55 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Truth Shines
Quote from: Ajokli
Easily 10/10 Movie of the Century. I'm currently on standby awaiting offers.
this is a "book's book."  Too much reflection, too much intellect, too much introspection.  Not to mention the gargantuan worldbuilding -- just look at all those whining 8th graders who complain this book is too difficult to get into on some internet review sites. ...
...
Like that "scene" in WLW where the Swayal floats above the darkened field, blooming as flowers in their yellow robes, illuminating the world with eerie sorcerous light, with endless masses of seething Srancs howling and surging toward the Great Ordeal...  I remember whooping and shouting with excitement when reading it!  Oh man what I wouldn't give to see that on the screen!

I agree completely with both halves of your post. The first trillogy especially would make a bad movie. There is just too much information mission to placate a movie goer, not to mention that a huge portion of the book is character inner dialogue. Also I can't imagine a film being able to show the different POV's properly, for example when Kell/Swere/Cnaiur are all traveling together, the POV's reveal so many different things that simply would be lost in a movie.

Oh but what I wouldn't give to see the sranc hordes being burned to cyinders, or the cullings, or the library demoloshed, or akka breaking free of his prison, or his battle with the dianomos (sorry spelling). It would be majestic.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:03 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
It is absolutely imperative for a PoN movie to nail Kellhus, and make him (or at least attempt to) an iconic character the likes of Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector. No one is going to watch a trilogy about one person usurping an entire military campaign if the actor phones it in. The viewer needs to feel some measure of awe when he is on-screen; you can't have legions of characters swearing allegiance to Kellhus if he is another standard-fantasy-character-who-is-totally-smart-and-kickass #3134. If his act is totally transparent, then it becomes a movie about dude suckering a bunch of suckers in the continent of suckerdom. His presence needs to reach across the screen and affect viewers too.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:10 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Yeah too bad Bakker is a mid list author with a relatively small cult following and barely makes enough money to write full time (last I heard at least). Making the acquisition of exceptional actors a realtivley small posiblity. But we are here to dream, not to be weighed down by facts, figures, and melancholy nay-sayers!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:17 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
A movie with the gritty aesthetic of GoT (think the village/town/army camp scenes, people milling about, dirt, mud, and horseshit everywhere; not everything is as glamorous as the Red Keep in Westeros), the grandiose set pieces of LotR when the plot gets rolling, and some really effective horror during Consult scenes backed by a uniquely chilling musical score, and you could have something really great. I think the sexual horror would be the biggest hurdle to jump, though. I don't expect "just took the gf to prince of nothing, it was awesome!!!!" lighting up facebook feeds anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:24 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
I don't watch many horror films, but I'd imagine rape isnt the typical tactic for scaring. And I dunno if cutting holes into living people and fucking the newly made orifice would go over super well with general audiences. Sranc would be a big problem.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:31 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
They definitely wouldn't. I have to give Bakker props for incorporating so much sexual horror into his work without veering into the masturbatory, especially in a story that actually has something of substance to say. Everything about the Inchoroi/Consult is so utterly, utterly wrong that it's almost admirable how effective they are as antagonists. If they are ever done justice on the big screen, their scenes would have to thrive on implication. The Warrior-Prophet epilogue comes to mind.

A man can dream for a NC-17 PoN movie trilogy. A man can dream...
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:39 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Wilshire
Yeah too bad Bakker is a mid list author with a relatively small cult following and barely makes enough money to write full time (last I heard at least). Making the acquisition of exceptional actors a realtivley small posiblity. But we are here to dream, not to be weighed down by facts, figures, and melancholy nay-sayers!
Much more feasible for an animated feature. Lots of very talented voice actors in a field that is chronically underpaid.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:08:47 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Quote from: bbaztek
Everything about the Inchoroi/Consult is so utterly, utterly wrong that it's almost admirable how effective they are as protagonists.

Fixed it for me :)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:09:05 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Well, when you take the metaphysics of the universe into account, they are the heroes of the story. And that is insane.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:09:12 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Haha an animated film. The original Hobbit film adaption came to mind.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:09:18 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Quote from: Wilshire
Haha an animated film. The original Hobbit film adaption came to mind.

It better have the dreariest, not kid-friendly aesthetic ever, or we'd be looking at a whole generation of unassuming kids never touching seafood again.

And yeah, getting horribly, irreversibly mentally scared.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:09:26 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Wilshire
Haha an animated film. The original Hobbit film adaption came to mind.
I loved that film. Creepiest Gollum ever.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
The style some of the fan art has been so far, with stark black lines on white (which Scott liked, of course) would seem really suited for it. Kind of noir, but less grey, more the extremes. Or atleast that's how Earwa depicts it's peoples.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:16 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Earwa is really just shades of gray with very few extremes, pretty much everyone has evil and good qualities
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:23 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Teaser needs to be a panning shot of the Holy War marching on Shigek with dramatic, pithy voice-over from Akka. Final shot are an army of sorcerers duking out in the air with bass-heavy concussive blasts, mouths alight. Key is to not make it look like Dragon Ball Z: Now in Middle Earth to the average moviegoer, but something out of a history book or the Bible except there are people who can make your blood boil with a word. Done right, and you could leave a whole theater going "What the fuck was that? That was awesome!"
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:30 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Yes Japanese style anime film adaption. That would be sweet! DBZ might be a bit much, but i think perhaps the naruto or yu-yu hakosho animation would fit nicely.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:37 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
What's wrong with western animation? A wispy thin feminine Kellhus is just wrong.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:43 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
Quote from: Wilshire
Earwa is really just shades of gray with very few extremes, pretty much everyone has evil and good qualities
I know - that's what I'm saying, particularly given the fan art already done - it'd be cool for the world to be depicted in extremes of black and white, visually, because that's how the world judges, and yet it's just so missplaced.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:50 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
I could support something like that, but only if the world only looked like that in Mimara-vision. Would be a nice way to visually convey the inherent narrative difference between her sections and everyone else, since obviously you couldn't do the past vs. present tense divide.

I'd LOVE to see these battles rendered on screen, and animation is the only way I see it being affordable. Especially for the second series. Even with a LOTR scale budget, HORIZONS of Sranc would be damn hard to carry out.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:12:56 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Quote from: Wilshire
Yes Japanese style anime film adaption. That would be sweet! DBZ might be a bit much, but i think perhaps the naruto or yu-yu hakosho animation would fit nicely.

Who are the Dunyain? (>_>)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:13:26 pm
Quote from: The Sharmat
Oh Kellhus-sama ^_^;
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:13:32 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
WHAT DO YOU SEE uguu~
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:13:56 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
Quote from: bbaztek
Teaser needs to be a panning shot of the Holy War marching on Shigek with dramatic, pithy voice-over from Akka. Final shot are an army of sorcerers duking out in the air with bass-heavy concussive blasts, mouths alight. Key is to not make it look like Dragon Ball Z: Now in Middle Earth to the average moviegoer, but something out of a history book or the Bible except there are people who can make your blood boil with a word. Done right, and you could leave a whole theater going "What the fuck was that? That was awesome!"

I think the teaser should come from the Prologue.  I'm still undecided between two scenes.

Howling snow storm.  A lone cabin.  The tipsy fur trapper pouring his heart out to Kellhus, declaiming against the world, announcing that he's fled from his native city to forget his dead wife.  Then we swtich to Kellhus' perspective, and see the twitching of the corner of the eyes, increasing heartbeat (nothing too robocop :)), and hear a second voice of the trapper overlaid with the first, fainter, but saying the exact opposite things.  We then witness the master perform his psychological surgery.  Then the voice over with something like: "In a world of ignorance and self-deception, one man has come to illuminate all.  Logos.  Reason.  The self moving soul.  A prince of nothing."  Dun dun dun.

Or: a simpler, more kinetic one.  Just the dual between Kellhus and the Nonman.  Drenching rain.  A blonde man in monk's clothing (I can't shake the image of those Shaolin kungfu monks) holding a long pommelled sword, facing off against a fully armored figure (those god-aliens in Prometheus are a good template).  With a cry of "Most memorable!" from the Nonman, suddenly the two explode toward each other.  Blinding sword strokes clashing, sparks flying.  The monk gradually gaining the upperhand, until the sword flies out of the Nonman's hand, and the monk, breathing evenly, has the point of his sword just kissing the Nonman's throat.  He says "Now you will answer my questions."  The Nonman begins to laugh maniacally -- "No, it is you who are the question."  Then -- well, just follow exactly what Bakker writes.  That part is an excellent script already.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:14:03 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Good stuff, Truth Shines. Those scenes as they are originally written might be needed to be streamlined a little for accessibility but I have no doubt in my mind they would make for compelling marketing.

Whatever tone they do decide for the teasers/trailers*, I stand by that Skaeos' opening his face needs be the iconic holy shit moment of the movie, much as I'd like to see that scene over some psycho strings in an official trailer before the cut to black.

*yes i know a pon movie will never happen la la la la
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:14:10 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
scene with the nonman gets my vote for teaser. so intense.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:14:17 pm
Quote from: Francis Buck
I was reading People and came across this actress I had never scene before: http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTU3MTc2NjIzOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzE1MDA0NQ@@._V1._SY314_CR1,0,214,314_.jpg (http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTU3MTc2NjIzOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzE1MDA0NQ@@._V1._SY314_CR1,0,214,314_.jpg)

...and I instantly thought of Esmenet. Seriously, if I was making this movie, that's who I would cast. The ethnicity fits, she's very attractive but still has a mature look, and her accent could work for the exotic nature of the fantasy setting.

And for Mimara: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fBWOX4HLY_4/TwD_YFbLq-I/AAAAAAAAYyo/DT54isVG54Q/s1600/Paula+Patton+%252846%2529.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fBWOX4HLY_4/TwD_YFbLq-I/AAAAAAAAYyo/DT54isVG54Q/s1600/Paula+Patton+%252846%2529.jpg)

Damn, that girl just drives me wild. Yeah...oh, right, I forgot we were talking about casting a PoN movie...

EDIT: By the way, how do you post a link as text?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:14:23 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Truth Shines, awesome ideas. I was also thinking a perfect trailer for a Darkness That Comes Before movie would show the conversation where the tipsy Leweth spills his heart out. It's really a perfect scene for a trailer - it's fascinating in a psychological way, it doesn't reveal anything of the storyline while also showing a few essentials, and it makes the audience more curious. The psychological surgery would be disturbing as hell. The visuals in that scene should be interesting - using close-ups of Leweth's sweating brow and beating pulse is a bit cheesy, but it could be done right. A much better idea is to have Leweth's dialogue overlaid with another (much fainter) dialogue, where he says the total opposite of the excuses he's telling Kellhus. The night-time convo takes place in shadow and firelight, and we mostly see just their expressive faces.

A good trailer would focus on the psychological aspect of the story, not on the "epic fantasy! swords 'n' sorcery! sci-fi aliens!!!" parts. Showing fight scenes with sorcerers is the worst idea for a trailer, it just gives a dumb "Dragonball Z" vibe that doesn't fit the story at all.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:17:44 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: The Sharmat
I could support something like that, but only if the world only looked like that in Mimara-vision. Would be a nice way to visually convey the inherent narrative difference between her sections and everyone else, since obviously you couldn't do the past vs. present tense divide.
Showing Mimara's narrative in a stark black-and-white is also a great idea. It both shows the vast difference between her world and everyone else's, and conveys the moral extremes of the universe (there is only absolute holiness or damnation, no shades of grey). It's been mentioned before, but the sections with Mimara, and these hypothetical movies in general, should have a vaguely  "Biblical" feeling to them. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one movie that felt really "scriptural", and that's Bergman's The Seventh Seal. It's got that somber mood, color scheme of pitch-black darkness and stark white, bleak medieval setting, and a lot of symbolism. Just check out the witch-burning scene in that movie to see what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK-u-ClOTU0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK-u-ClOTU0&feature=related)

Other ideas...the first scene in the first movie should make a visual impression, for sure. Maybe begin with a long silence and snow flying in the blackness over Ishual? The whole prelude of the movie, before Kellhus encounters people, could use a combo of occasional sparse dialogue and maybe a voice-over at the start (the first scene should probably have a very brief "history lesson" voice-over - the narrator is Achamian, long before we meet him).

A "magical realism" approach is probably best for the supernatural stuff, at least for the first hypothetical movie (which would be based on book one and the first parts of book two.) The sorcery fireworks mostly take place in the second and third parts.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:02 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Quote from: Auriga
A good trailer would focus on the psychological aspect of the story, not on the "epic fantasy! swords 'n' sorcery! sci-fi aliens!!!" parts. Showing fight scenes with sorcerers is the worst idea for a trailer, it just gives a dumb "Dragonball Z" vibe that doesn't fit the story at all.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm not talking 2 minutes of fast cuts and IN A WORLD bs, but a glimpse, just enough to whet the appetite and let the viewer know this is not just any fantasy film: it's one where the capacity of a human being to boil blood with a word or throw geometrically perfect parabolas of light into screaming armies is treated with all the visual power and gravitas that it would be if it were real. What I love about Bakker's sorcery is how raw it feels: the air cracks and concusses, fortifications are blasted to bits, armies reel in terror at the mere sight of a sorceror. A teaser that showcases the more visceral side of the story (cheesy spec effects notwithstanding, they have to be perfect, I can't stress that enough) would only attract more viewers. Throw in some psychological trailers, and you could have a perfect storm of hype.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:09 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Auriga
A good trailer would focus on the psychological aspect of the story, not on the "epic fantasy! swords 'n' sorcery! sci-fi aliens!!!" parts. Showing fight scenes with sorcerers is the worst idea for a trailer, it just gives a dumb "Dragonball Z" vibe that doesn't fit the story at all.

Along with what bbaztek said, remember the point of a movie trailer is to draw people in. Its to make people want more, and besides, everyone here knows the story. Why not hope for a thrilling teaser trailer rather than a droll philosophical black and white story? Sure it doesn't 'capture' the essence of the books, but hey, the books draw different people in for different reasons. You probably shouldnt just ostracize those who like the action in the books because you feel that your POV is the right one.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:16 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: bbaztek
I couldn't disagree more. I'm not talking 2 minutes of fast cuts and IN A WORLD bs, but a glimpse, just enough to whet the appetite and let the viewer know this is not just any fantasy film: it's one where the capacity of a human being to boil blood with a word or throw geometrically perfect parabolas of light into screaming armies is treated with all the visual power and gravitas that it would be if it were real.
Hmmm, you do have a point. It's not a bad idea for a trailer, if done right. A brief but tantalizing glimpse of a sorcerer with light blazing from eyes and mouth - the book's description, "a mask before the sun", was a perfect one - would be way more effective with the audiences in a trailer, than a minute of flashy lightshows and "omg so cool" MTV fast cuts. However, as you said, the sorcery needs to be treated with dignity and gravitas in a hypothetical Prince of Nothing movie, otherwise it will just be a total fail. The sorcery action is obviously an important part of the books, but not exactly the easiest thing to put onscreen.

As for the battles...how to show them onscreen? The Battle of Kiyuth would be the first one we see, I guess, and it would have to look as gritty and realistic as possible. A lot of medieval battles between Byzantine legions and Asian nomads, so there's plenty of historical inspiration. Cavalry charges, grunting shield-walls, screaming horses and men, lots of filth and gore. Only at the end of the battle do things turn supernatural - the audience (and the Scylvendi) would have a shocked "WTF" moment of mind-boggling terror when the Nansur sorcerers show up out of nowhere and start raining hellfire.

(Am I the only one who had Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" in my head in that scene?)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:24 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
Kiyuth would be the "hook" of the movie. Here's a standard medieval battle, barbarians, knights, swords, spears, shields, the whole shebang, albeit with fantasy cultures. And just as the average moviegoer is beginning to regret taking a leap of faith "on that Prince of Nothing movie", the Cishaurim come and tear absolute ass. People disintegrating, bodies combusting, utterly batshit insane pyrotechnics that look as real as modern cgi technology can make them. The movie needs visceral power that hits like a hammer to the gut, and nothing could prepare the viewer for the thrill ride of the first book than Kiyuth done right.

I spend entirely too much time posting about a movie that will never exist. Sigh.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:31 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
I've yet to see CGI that would fit in the world of Earwa. Too pretty and surreal
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:37 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Sorcery is nothing if not surreal in TSA. Its poorly understood, rare to see, and absolutely powerful. Also, dunno about you but pretty sorcery would tie into the whole duality theme of the series. Something so beautiful in the eyes of men, but so jarring and damning in the eyes of a sorcerer. From different POVs it should look completely different, cleansing and angelic or damning and demonic depending on whos eyes you look through or from what culture the person is from.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:44 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Good point
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:50 pm
Quote from: KRST IS
CHARACTER AND FACTION GLOSSARY:

Anasurimbor Kellhus - Chris Hemsworth http://www.shockya.com/news/wp-content/uploads/thor-photo-chris-hemsworth-looking1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_079N0WJ3jKg/TQTyOSoAYVI/AAAAAAAAC7U/qTDMvu1Why0/s1600/Chris_Hemsworth_Thor_B3.jpg

Anasurimbor Esmenet - Indira Varma http://www.seriesadictos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/indira-varma.jpg

http://www.millioncelebs.com/mrskin-free/indira-varma/indira-varma-13.jpg

http://www.millioncelebs.com/mrskin-free/indira-varma/indira-varma-22.jpg

Anasurimbor Mimara - http://images.buddytv.com/articles/rome/images/zuleikha-robinson.jpg

http://www.imperiodefamosas.com/Fotos/Zuleikha_Robinson/Zuleikha_Robinson_013.jpg

Drusas Achamian - http://content8.flixster.com/photo/12/59/01/12590134_ori.jpg

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/52128.gif

Serwe - http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/52128.gif

http://seriemaniac.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/emilia-clarke-daenerys-targaryen.jpg

http://multipleverses.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/daenerys-targaryen-emilia-clarke-paul-schiraldi.jpg

Cnaiur urs Skiotha - http://www.freewallpapershd.net/dir/wallpaper-original/wallpapers/khal-drogo-jason-momoa-2012-4878.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/tvdramas/1/0/J/y/jasonmomoa.jpg

http://cdn.csicon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-07-at-12.01.43-PM.png

Psatma Nannaferi - Lindsay Duncan http://www.berkshirefinearts.com/uploadedImages/articles/200_All-Roads-Lead-to-HB910838.jpg

Nil'giccas (Incariol, Cleric) - Paul Bettany http://encycl.opentopia.com/enimages/5087/5086929/Silascode.PNG

http://nd01.jxs.cz/515/119/eafb8d06a0_44379225_o2.jpg

Anasurimbor Kelmomas - Jack Gleeson http://www.reelgoddess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Game-of-Thrones-2.06-Jack-Gleeson.jpg

http://film-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/jack-gleeson-game-of-thrones-valar-morghulis-01-1280x720-1024x576.png

Ikurei Conphas - Kevin McKidd http://www.maxipopcorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/lucius-kevin-mckidd-480x318.jpg

http://www.series-blog.fr/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kevinmckidd-470x293.jpg

I might post more if I see any good ones ;)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:18:59 pm
Quote from: Madness
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, KRST IS.

Bettany is an inspired choice.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:06 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
I really like a lot of those KRST IS, especially kell and esmi
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:13 pm
Quote from: Jorge
KRST, that's an extremely good choice for Achamian.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:19 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Madness
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, KRST IS. Bettany is an inspired choice.
Bettany is indeed an awesome choice. I tend to imagine Cleric/Incariol/Nil'giccas as an inhuman marble-white figure with an Olympian physique and a mostly CGI face, like the god-aliens in Prometheus, so the actor would have to focus more on the body language and speaking part. Paul Bettany could definitely pull that off, although I was rather thinking of Doug Jones (who had similar monster roles in Pan's Labyrinth)  for the part.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:26 pm
Quote from: Cursed Armada
I just had a lot of fun looking through this forum... It's good to know I'm not the only one alive imagining PON as an Epic movie. Nobody has mentioned a movie called "Valhalla Rising". It's really bizarre, but for some reason it reminded me of Bakker's world. Probably the dark, gritty, depressing tone of it all. The main character "one eye" would make a bad ass Cnaiur. Trailer link is below! Don't pay much attention to the cheesy narration, this movie kicked ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RI0Y3jI4S0
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:32 pm
Quote from: Madness
Oh, Cursed Armada. Love it.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:39 pm
Quote from: Madness
I'm not actually a big fan of James Caviezel as Achamian but I was watching Hell on Wheels the other day and Anson Mount screams Xinemus. Caviezel kind of looks like Mount's younger, weaker, brother... just not portly enough for the PON.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2936908544/nm0609845
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:45 pm
Quote from: Callan S.
Not quite what I had in mind for Serwe! ;)

Still, just my inner sexist who's perception can't get around a bit of beard... :)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:52 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
I still say that Chiwetel Ejiofer is my mental image of Achamian.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:19:59 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: lockesnow
I still say that Chiwetel Ejiofer is my mental image of Achamian.

See, I always imagined a bearded Gary Oldman as the ideal Achamian. I guess we're predisposed to think of unseen literary characters as people who look like ourselves - I certainly wouldn't think of Achamian as a black guy, unless the text said outright that he was one.

The only black characters in PON where an actor instantly came to mind were Malowebi (my mental image is Keith David) and Pokwas (who looks like Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, as he was in Oz).
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:20:08 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
As I was driving to see Zero Dark Thirty it actually occured to me that Payman Maadi might be an even better Achamian.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm471513088/nm1818216
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:20:17 pm
Quote from: Curethan
Cnaiur?
...

http://secondapocalypse.forumer.com/download/file.php?id=57254
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:20:25 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
wow thats pretty good. needs more scars though.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:21:32 pm
Quote from: Madness
Lol... needs more scars is the understatement of the day ;). Swazond, Wilshire, measures foes, not fools... and measure is unceasing.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:21:38 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
the description of Logan Ninefingers (The First Law) made me thing of cnair (physical appearance).
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:05 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Hugh Jackman in the pic looks pretty much like I imagined Cnaiür, but with a lot more scars on his limbs (PON describes him as having "tiger-striped" arms). Although the book's description of Cnaiür's face also brings Conan the Barbarian to mind.

That said, I can't really imagine a Hollywood actor playing this character. Jackman is one of the few actors who could pull it off. You'd need someone who looks crude and weatherbeaten, hardened by a brutal life, aged beyond his years. This ugly, prematurely aged, hardened look isn't easy to find in our modern Western societies, much less in the pampered Hollywood world. Look at the grim faces in those old Daguerreotypes to see what I mean. A lifelong prison guard, oilfield worker, or ex-soldier would fit the physical part of the Cnaiür role far better than the typical actor.

(Same goes for the rest of the Scylvendi - they should look more like savage tribesmen out of National Geographic than like pretty-boy actors dressed up as warriors. The Scylvendi don't look "just like us, except they live in teepees".)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:12 pm
Quote from: Madness
I have much faith in prosthetics and make-up, Auriga.

Jackman honestly looks great there but agreed, Cnaiur is tiger-stripped, the most violent of all men - even two hundred uniform scars (I'm sure there's more) would be terrifying and majestic.

Just scar him up.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:19 pm
Quote from: Wilshire
Quote from: Madness
I have much faith in prosthetics and make-up, Auriga.

Jackman honestly looks great there but agreed, Cnaiur is tiger-stripped, the most violent of all men - even two hundred uniform scars (I'm sure there's more) would be terrifying and majestic.

Just scar him up.

terrifying, majestic, and a bitch for makeup to reapply. i'd feel sorry for that guy.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:25 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Madness
I have much faith in prosthetics and make-up, Auriga.

Yeah. With enough make-up and yellow contacts, Jackman in that pic would be the spitting image of Cnaiür. (And I especially like that ugly scar on Jackman's head in Les Miserables, it might as well be the scar of an axe-blow to the skull):

(http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Hugh-jackman-Les-Miserables.jpg)

Also from the same movie, a perfect expression for a half-starved Cnaiür:

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/afterplay1/hugh-jackman-les-miserablespng_zps057234ad.jpg)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:32 pm
Quote from: Auriga
So, here's my cast:

Kellhus:


(http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/prometheus-michael-fassbender_400.jpg)


Esmenet:


(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/afterplay1/Monica-Bellucci-monica-bellucci-14169093-1600-1200_zps6c759e1a.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k-bPNZiL84A/SiG7MlOmDwI/AAAAAAAAA08/pdTgzeVf66I/s1600/top_te75.jpg)



Serwë:


(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/11aaabbb11/Sapegina-Alisa1.jpg)

(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f161/11aaabbb11/Sapegina-Alisa8.jpg)


Sarcellus:


(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/afterplay1/James-james-purefoy-23977996-1280-960_zpsb0fd5bb7.jpg)

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/afterplay1/James-james-purefoy-23977980-450-300_zps9d1d481c.jpg)



Sorweel:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq13uy7VuO1qah7o8o1_500.jpg)

(http://ohgelie.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tumblr_lcvtoebkia1qa45kjo1_500.png?w=500)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:23:41 pm
Quote from: Madness
Joaquin Phoenix will always be my pick for Conphas, who your Sorweel reminds me of.

Also, Sarcellus needs to be someone special... Like Jason Isaacs:

(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNTUyMjU5ODA1NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjkwNjkxMg@@._V1._SY314_CR3,0,214,314_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:05 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Madness
Joaquin Phoenix will always be my pick for Conphas, who your Sorweel reminds me of.

I never thought of Iwan Rheon's similarity to Phoenix, I just remembered his role in Misfits. He looks both sympathetic and creepy at the same time, definitely the sort who would be jacking off in the bushes while peeking at twincest.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:12 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Wilshire
Haha an animated film. The original Hobbit film adaption came to mind.

Whoever had the idea of a PON cartoon probably had something like Berserk (http://mangafox.me/manga/berserk/c139/8.html) in mind rather than the Hobbit cartoons.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:19 pm
Quote from: Curethan
:twisted: Kellhus with big eyes, spiky blue hair and a ridiculously large sword?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:25 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
aurang as griffith



make it happen japan
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:32 pm
Quote from: Haaska
Did anyone of you watch Homeland?

Mandy Patinkin could pull of a great Achamian, in my opinion. Especially this grumpy-yet-empathetic sceptic aspect.

(http://i2.cdnds.net/12/11/300x225/ustv_homeland_episode_5_1.jpg)

Then again, he could be somewhat too old ... or how old is Achamian in PoN again?! I would still opt for him as Achamian in The Aspect-Emperor.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:39 pm
Quote from: Madness
Good choice, Haaska, though it actually makes me consider John Noble as Achamian in AE.

Just by this threads existence, we make ourselves the obvious demographic to consult - lol no pun intended - should the PON ever be made into a movie. If movie or show-makers aren't going to satisfy us, who are they doing it for?

Then I'm reminded of all the times that image renditions of linguistic narratives have not satisfied their original readers :(.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:47 pm
Quote from: Auriga
Quote from: Curethan
:twisted: Kellhus with big eyes, spiky blue hair and a ridiculously large sword?

Nah, I was rather thinking of the rape demons and monster cocks and eldritch abominations in Berserk. The author of that cartoon would get the Consult down to a T.

Quote
Just by this threads existence, we make ourselves the obvious demographic to consult - lol no pun intended - should the PON ever be made into a movie. If movie or show-makers aren't going to satisfy us, who are they doing it for?

Well, the dedicated fanboiz are usually a small demographic (too small to make a difference in the revenues - and they'll still watch movies they hate), which is why these movies are mainly geared to the normal movie-watching crowd. It's not easy to make a movie that appeals both to the normal cinema-goers and to the hardcore fans. Few filmmakers have managed both, and it's better to err on the side of caution by pleasing the majority. 
 
It's still funny to imagine a PON movie being advertised as "a nice fantasy film"* and drawing the typical crowd, only to have the audiences storming out of the theater or fainting in their seats.

[size=85]* Complete with a cheesy official poster of a cool warrior-monk, a fatherly-looking wizard, a blonde bombshell, a kick-ass barbarian chieftain, and a CGI tornado. The movie would be released with toys, action figures, and stuffed Aurang plushies for the kids.[/size]
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:31:53 pm
Quote from: Davias
A few days ago, I have told a friend about the Second Apocalypse and he was asking some questions about the books.
I have answered, that they are not like my other fantasy books, which I mentionend to him ago in the last decade.

As very lazy reader, my friend said:"Oh, I believe it is awesome, but I think I will wait, till they make a movie or a series out of this, like with "Song of Ice & Fire"

I have laughed and said:"No, you didn't understand me. It's not like "Game of Thrones, or something like that."
He asked:"And what it is like? Like Lord of the Rings? Or what?"

It was a little bit difficult to answer that question.

I said:"Ok, if someone would make a movie out of the Second Apocalypse it would be a mixture made of "Lord of the Rings".....mmmhhh ok, a little bit "Game of Thrones", "some Philosophy literature" and....mmmhhhh "Raping Aliens"

He watched me carefully and said:"Raping Aliens?"

I grinned:"Yes, with Raping Aliens."

He shook his head, looked away from me back on his computer screen, where some online game was running at the time
( as it happened most of the time, when I sit by his side  :roll: )

His concluding sentence, muttered in his beard was something like:"...Lord of the Rings, Philosophy and Raping Aliens. You read some crazy shit these days..."

My answer was:"Yep, you're right. But IS NOT ALL TRUTH INFINITE?"

I grinned. "Ok, I think you must read the books, to understand that. I don't think, someone would make a movie out of it. But if you don't read them, I'm sure, you'll miss something."

He looked back at me, as if I was a strange frog, sitting by his side. His last words were somewhat sarcastic:"....Raping Aliens? No...I don't think I would miss something..."

"You don't think? Oh, that is an interesting statement. Let's talk about thinking..."

I must say, the conversation wasn't going in an fruitful direction, but it was a lot of fun :mrgreen:

That was just my two cents
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:00 pm
Quote from: lockesnow
back before the HBO series, I used to try and persuade people to read ASOIAF as, "The Sopranos of modern fantasy."

Today I would describe TSA as "Imagine if David Lynch made The Seventh Seal."
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:08 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
there will never come a day that a TSA movie is greenlit. jolly old mandy patinkin or no (awesome choice btw), there isn't a hollywood exec worth his salt who would give the go-ahead to create a fantasy movie about rape aliens. no one but the most suicidal director would be willing to suffer the herculean hoop-jumping that is making a race of mondo-dicked aliens palatable for modern audiences, and also satisfy the hardcore fans who would prefer not to see the philosophical depth of the series neutered for a quick buck.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:15 pm
Quote from: Curethan
Quote from: Auriga
Nah, I was rather thinking of the rape demons and monster cocks and eldritch abominations in Berserk. The author of that cartoon would get the Consult down to a T.

I know brother, I have seen it. 
The mangaka's character/creature designs are actually better than the anime.  Also, the manga is still running, albeit with very sporadic releases.
I agree that anime has a better chance of doing a passable interpretation than hollywood.

But its amusing to consider the application of japanimetropes to Bakker, no?

Kellhus yelling out "Conditioned Ground Probability Attack!" whilst fighting skin spies, etc.
Aurax's visit to Esme in Sumna would undoubtedly have many more tentacles.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:23 pm
Quote from: bbaztek
serwe is pretty much an anime character to begin with. oh kellhus-sama
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:29 pm
Quote from: Ajokli
Quote from: bbaztek
there will never come a day that a TSA movie is greenlit.

Thanks be to Zeus
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:37 pm
Quote from: Madness
Quote from: Auriga
It's still funny to imagine a PON movie being advertised as "a nice fantasy film"* and drawing the typical crowd, only to have the audiences storming out of the theater or fainting in their seats.

* Complete with a cheesy official poster of a cool warrior-monk, a fatherly-looking wizard, a blonde bombshell, a kick-ass barbarian chieftain, and a CGI tornado. The movie would be released with toys, action figures, and stuffed Aurang plushies for the kids.

Brilliant.

Quote from: Davias
That was just my two cents

I'm not one to fault others their vices. I'm fighting for my own life and I can empathize with concessions that people make within circumstantial constraints - your boy can't spend his time on just anything. I've met vapid people completely capable of reading Bakker and others who are transformed by their experiences with his writing.

We're all just at different stages of development. Best you can do is leave Disciple or TDTCB around. If he's a reader at all, he'll give them a try. Pushing anything on people prompts them to ignore the content.

Lmao... Avatar was basically halfway to Inchoroi Sranc-rape, what with their phallic hair-melds? There aren't even tentacles in TSA.

Yet...  :shock:
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:44 pm
Quote from: Davias
Quote
I'm not one to fault others their vices. I'm fighting for my own life and I can empathize with concessions that people make within circumstantial constraints - your boy can't spend his time on just anything. I've met vapid people completely capable of reading Bakker and others who are transformed by their experiences with his writing.

You're right, madness, but sometimes, I seek those conversations like a bear is seeking honey in the woods :D
Also, my friend talks to me about his beloved online games in a similar manner and I couldn't withstand the urge to do it ;)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:52 pm
Quote from: Truth Shines
Quote from: Curethan
Kellhus yelling out "Conditioned Ground Probability Attack!" whilst fighting skin spies, etc.
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:   As the kids say these days: FTW! :lol:

As for Berserk, I actually like the anime better than the manga.  The anime in fact captures the best part of the manga -- everything after the Golden Age arc is pretty much downhill as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: What Came Before on June 03, 2013, 03:32:58 pm
Quote from: Madness
+1 Davias.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on August 31, 2013, 03:19:52 pm
Found this, thought it would fit in here.

http://www.imdb.com/list/WekycUvhq5U/
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Baztek on August 31, 2013, 08:00:04 pm
Liam Neeson as Moenghus is fucking brilliant

edit: hahaha holy shit don draper as sarcellus. "the thing called sarcellus hungered, most of all. it hungered for unspeakable congress... and an old fashioned to wash it down"
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Madness on August 31, 2013, 11:41:20 pm
I'd seen that before. There are honestly some stellar picks.

I'd love to see Cavill and Sewell as Conphas and Martemus. Gordan-Levitt and Cavill as Proyas vs. Conphas. Feore and Walken are genius as Eleazaras and Iyokus. Perlman and Oldman as Aurang and Seswatha.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on September 01, 2013, 12:10:42 am
Walken as Iyokus is pretty funny.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on September 02, 2013, 02:53:21 am
After doing my reread of the series and thinking about it as a movie, I feel like it would be really tough to adapt. And not because of the sexual violence or anything (to be fair, a lot of that could be implied rather than directly shown, which is often a lot more effective anyway). Even with an infinite budget, I just think it would be damn hard to do without being able to see into the character's minds -- especially Kellhus, and to a lesser extent, Cnaiur. It would almost have to have flashbacks, both to the time of Moe and Cnaiur, and possibly flashbacks (some of which would likely have to be brand new) to Kellhus's time in Ishual, which would serve as explanations of his Dunyain powers. Obviously some information that could be cleverly delivered in other ways, but there's just a shitload of backstory to the Cnaiur/Moe/Kellhus storyline that is taken almost entirely from internal thoughts, and it would be hard to reconfigure all the necessary stuff into action/dialogue.

That is, unless, you did voice overs. And that's...risky, especially in something like an epic fantasy. You could go for something along the lines of Terrence Malick's Thin Red Line, which might work if properly executed (and could be damn interesting as well). Or, you could have some kind of narrator, in the vein of The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. Both options could work, and both could potentially be really great (or turn out horrible). Overall though, I think a TV show would probably be the best route. It would of course allow a lot more time to get all the important details in (I think any film version would almost certainly start collapsing multiple books into a movie; there's just too many books), and if it was on something like HBO, then really the violence, sex, and violent sex could be worked around, especially considering some of the over-the-top shit you see in True Blood and Game of Thrones. The Sranc are often mentioned as a big issue, but I think that could be dodged with some good exposition and powerful (but subtle) imagery. Clearly it would be a challenge in certain cases, but not the main impediment in my mind.

The only major drawback for the TV show route is the budget, which would be substantial considering the sheer scale of the thing. I mean look at how expensive GoT is, and that story, relatively speaking, is a lot more grounded in reality. TSA is loaded with crazy depictions of magic, several types of inhuman creatures, ridiculously huge war scenes, etc., not to mention basically every other cost that goes along with this type of fantasy (costumes, sets, make-up, etc.). That being said, CGI and special effects in general become cheaper as time goes on. Something on the scale of GoT (especially season two and three) ten years ago would be virtually unthinkable. So, maybe ten or fifteen years from now, I could see TSA being feasible for a cable network like HBO -- and honestly, where else would something like this be made? The bigger problem in that case (and probably the biggest problem overall) is that TSA is not the most popular series. I mean it's obviously on the upper scale of fantasy lit., but it's still a pretty tough sell to a casual audience. That being said, I do think the series will gain popularity in the future. It just smacks as one of those works that will take time for people at large to fully appreciate the strengths of.

ETA: Although, as others have mentioned, perhaps the best road to take is animation. Almost every issue is solved, really, and with the right style and talent, it could be damn amazing. Unfortunately the West is a bit slower than the East in realizing that animation doesn't have to be exclusively relegated to the realm of children's cartoons or comedy.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on September 02, 2013, 03:26:46 am
Yeah so much of the books take place in the character's minds that so much would be lost. In reality there is just too much information to cram into a movie, even if you did 1 movie per book.

Ok so the plan should be to get Bakker to convert his stuff into a graphic novel (or manga, i'm not entirely sure what the difference is), send it to Japan, wait around for a few years, and then work on having funimation (or some other company) produce it. After all, anime fans are used to series with 500+ episodes.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Baztek on September 02, 2013, 03:37:45 am
You guys should check out the new Berserk movies. Low-fantasy medieval setting plagued by horrific (and I mean really unsettling, gruesome-looking fuckers) demon lords and their apostles. I wasn't too crazy about a PoN anime at first but what they're doing with Berserk makes me optimistic for what a real, balls-to-the-wall anime adaptation would look like.

However, an animated adaptation would take a lot away from the physical reality of the show, if that makes sense. I always rave about the Bakker's sense of history and authenticity, which is what makes rape aliens slightly more grounded in the story, and all the more disturbing for it. This is an intimately physical universe. Random camp scenes feel so inhabited because Bakker fills them with dozens of little vignettes, of lives that barely intersect with the path of our protagonists. The world feels lived-in, like a man could grow up in Galeoth and never spend more than a minute his whole life wondering about the Consult, or the Nonmen, see a sorceror, or even read the Sagas. There's a, for the lack of a better term, a heft to his worldbuilding that I really admire and is the hallmark of a well-realized artistic vision, which is really all you can ask for.

Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Madness on September 02, 2013, 02:04:56 pm
This is an intimately physical universe. Random camp scenes feel so inhabited because Bakker fills them with dozens of little vignettes, of lives that barely intersect with the path of our protagonists. The world feels lived-in, like a man could grow up in Galeoth and never spend more than a minute his whole life wondering about the Consult, or the Nonmen, see a sorceror, or even read the Sagas. There's a, for the lack of a better term, a heft to his worldbuilding that I really admire and is the hallmark of a well-realized artistic vision, which is really all you can ask for.

+1.

[snip]

You've offered plenty of ways to overcome the difficulties of a movie series (Harry Potter was eight movies, LOTR could've easily been eight movies of content).

Also, in this thread even, I've offered Brad Pitt as Kellhus as he has intensive facial training (though obviously, this could be adapted to any actor willing to practice).

You know though, maybe those who act would really enjoy pushing these roles. After all, we're talking about a series that explicitly makes a theme of emotions being shown through the face.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: locke on September 03, 2013, 07:34:22 am
Actually Bakker's style of dominance through internal dialog makes it easier to adapt than Martin's, you can retain more of Bakker's spoken dialog without having to go through the epic battles of condensing tons of ridiculously juicy wordplay that Martin excels at. You then articulate backstory through whatever creative way you can come up with (sexposition would be appropriate in this verse).

You definitely would not take a Malick route.  Nor would you want to go the didactic manner of people speaking their thoughts, or a David Lynch/Dune esque 'interior dialog'.  Rather, you rely on your actors to get across as much as they can, and you give them an assist with half a line or half a scene that straddles the line between implicitly and explicitly saying something.  Audiences are quite good at following interpersonal dynamics, so scenes where characters are talking around something can be done quite adeptly--while completely supporting an internal dialog--given an adept utitlization of the basic dialect of television storytelling (meaning, anyone can cut a scene with a few meaningful looks involved).

And it helps that Kellhus, the person with the most meaningful inner dialogue because he's visually a cypher to the audience or is being directed and written to seduce the audience as well, has everything about him established through scenes with Leweth and Cnaiur where an otherwise inner dialogue can be relatively seamlessly brought to the fore.  Since the other characters all deliberately wear their hearts on their sleeves, their inner dialogue will be written on their faces, and in the edit.  A meaningful look of jealousy from Akka when Kellhus laughs at something Esme says will say as much in 50 frames as Bakker says in 5 paragraphs of Akka's internal self-recriminations.

***
The real challenge is not in the internal monologue, the real challenge is plot, story and character disparation.  The story is constructed in a manner that is extremely challenging for a television season.  Looking at the story as a whole, you have two season ending events, Umiaki and Shimeh.  You can't write a season of television that begins with a bunch of unrelated characters heading towards each other, and then ends when the characters run into each other in the last episode and have a pow-wow with the emperor.  Oh my, that is dramatic!

The advantage, the brilliance, Game of Thrones has is that every main character of the first season is pretty much in one place for the first episode, and then a gradual dispersal pattern spreads from there as the sub-plots and characters fan out in all directions.  The one exception is Dany, so you really only have two things for the audience to remember in the first episode. 

A first episode of Prince of Nothing is a fucking plotting disaster.  You start with a two-four scene prologue with the founding of the Dunyain then flashforward 2000 years.  Okay, well make it a pre-credits scene and you can probably excuse it.  Kellhus wandering the wilderness is a montage sequence probably not longer than 45 seconds, ending with him collapsing in the snow.  Then you’re halfway across the world to Carythusal, and you’re wasting time establishing a location that will never be relevant to a single character in the rest of the entire run of the series.  That’s expensive and absurd. You're also wasting time establishing Akka as a spy when he is never really a spy in any sense of the word (at least not in a way that would work on TV) at any point or any time in the entire run of the series after this point.  Then you’re off to Momemn, to establish the emperor in a scene that establishes Conphas on the field preparing for the battle against the Scylvendie.  We move across the battle lines to Cnaiur and establish him and that there is a power struggle for the leadership of the horde is going on.  Then we move back to Kellhus and Leweth before zipping back to Achamian, probably now in Atyersus, so we’re brutally wasting time establishing him in a second location that will only be relevant one other time in the entire series.  Since every character (other than Kellhus) has been mentioning that a new Shriah has been elected we move to another new location, Sumna, where Esmenet is established, hearing about the new Shriah from one of her clients.  We switch back to a battle scene where Conphas outlines why the Scylvendie will fall to him (because they do the same thing) which segues to a scene of Cnaiur not being chosen (because he says they should not do the same thing) which segues to Kellhus telling Leweth that men always do the same thing, then the Sranc attack, Leweth exeunts, and Kellhus faces down Mekeritrig before fleeing, roll credits, end episode one.

The point of all that is that it's an order of magnitude (or two) more complex than the introduction Martin gives us.  The struggles of plot Game of Thrones will face in it's fourth and fifth season are struggles they can afford to have because the show is at the height of it's success and has earned a bit of a downslope.  You're asking Prince of Nothing to take on all those struggles from the very beginning.  It's a hard sell without some significant changes.  but I think you could minimize the changes.  I'd seriously consider throwing out Xerius, though that would necessitate a lot of research into seeing how Conphas' motivations and considerations and calculations change if he is already emperor rather than heir apparent.  And I'd consider throwing out Carythusal and Atyersus.  I'd make Sumna into something more like Sauglish, the seat of power in the three seas, where The Mandate, the Scarlet Spires and the Inrithi faith all coexist in an uneasy truce (and have for millenia). You could still have Atyersus on a barrier island that leads to Sumna's safe harbor.  This would also allow Sumna to become something of a foil for Shimeh, because the Inrithi have never allied with a school, while the ascendent Fanim faith has allied with a school (the Cishaurim).  I'd also make Esmenet a lot more important early on.  Yes she was a whore, but that just meant that she was ideally situated to encounter all three of the power players in Sumna, and she figured out how to leverage knowledge into security and safety of a stable livelyhood. I'd make Esmenet the spy, not Achamian, she trades whispers from one faction to another and that's how she really makes her living.  and that's how she knows achamian, Geshrunni, Inrau and Sarcellus, they're all patrons of Esmenet's house of pleasure.  I'd make Achamian, the noted (and disgraced) Mandate Scholar, the Mandate's ambassador to the Shriah, which is a ceremonial and useless insult position because there is no official contact between the Mandate and the Shriah, anymore than there is between The Mandate and the Scarlet Spires.  There are unofficial contacts, naturally, but Achamian would never be privy to such, especially not after the House Nersei disaster.  Nope, a roll of the whore's dice causes Achamian to get mixed up in everything, all he wanted was a night at the whore house, unfortunately, Geshrunni and his revelations fall into Achamian's lap.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on September 03, 2013, 03:17:03 pm
Looks like you've put a lto more thought into this than most.

Now that you spell it out, I can see the true reason why it would be so difficult. Even the changes your suggested, which would make it more feasible, are enough to irritate the already small number of viewers. It just doesn't seem realistic, unless it become very popular and an almost guaranteed success there is just too much risk.

edit
A first episode of Prince of Nothing is a fucking plotting disaster.
I think this actually lies in the heart of my struggle with the series the first time I read it. There is a lot going on very quickly and there are a lot of plots to follow. The characters arn't really connected for a long time, and the pace seemed extraordinarily slow. After readint it a few times I tend to forget a lot of those issues because everything seems to flow much better when you know where it is all going.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Baztek on September 03, 2013, 04:40:19 pm
Locke, that was great. More please
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: locke on September 03, 2013, 07:39:18 pm
well it's kinda hard to go forward because I don't know if I prefer a faithful adaptation or a compressed adaptation. Faithful wise, it's easy enough to chop up the chapters and rearrange them in an interleaving manner.  You'd probably invent a scene of Kellhus at Atraithau in episode 2, have the battle where Conphas wins and have him receive adulation equal to the adulation the Shriah receives when he calls the holy war and adulation equal to the adulation Kellhus is getting in Atraithau.  Introduce the Inrau, Esmenet, and Akka convolutions as well.

But it's very tempting to only have three locations in the first episode.  The battlefield (emperor and cnaiur), the north (Kellhus, Leweth, Mekeritrig) and Suman (Achamian, Esmenet, Maithanet, Proyas).  Trying to juggle all the other locations would be much harder, and getting Akka and Esme together sooner is better for the livelyhood of the series (and needs to be established in the first episode), Giving Akka two professions, spy and sorcerer, is confusing and frustrating, especially since Akka is a terrible spy and the role is pretty much 100% abandoned post Inrau.  Making Esmenet the author of her own success in Sumna, and Akka a big part of the reason why her position fell apart both foreshadows her role with Kellhus as his master of spies, makes her more dynamic (she's not passive), and gives a strong motivation for why she does not rejoin Akka later in the season (because she's still angry at him).  I'd also make Akka ignorant that he is Esmenet's best/first client as a spy, that his loose tongue was the source of the first lies and whispers she sold to other factions in Sumna, and in the process of trying to ply him for more information, she also fell in love with him as they spent time together while they were both on the rise/make within their respective fields.  When Akka went away to tutor house Nersei Esmenet was cut adrift and had to establish herself, becoming another spy-madame in the city. 

in my wilder dreams, I'd have Esment secretly teach herself how to read by creating a game with Akka.  Every so often she'd ask what a symbol/syllable was and how it was made (written).  Eventually she'd assemble the meaning of the whole alphabet and teach herself how to read in secret, having 'stolen' the knowledge from Akka.  This works because the alphabet is a syllabary, iirc, and once you know the characters, all words are spelled/pronounced the same way with almost no variants.  In this silly projection, I'd have Esmenet acquire her secrets by reading the papers her clients carelessly left about (because women or low caste people can't read and are not a threat). Or perhaps she becomes, on accident, something of a rare book dealer?  imagine if one day a sorcerer or priest came to her, he had a book/scroll with him, and was worried about it, he left it in her keeping, and she copied it out.  When he came to retrieve it some time later, she returned it and he never knew she'd made her own copy.  Like the movie the apartment, word subtly spread that this was a good place to hide ilicit books from the authorities.  And in becoming part of this underground book marketplace Esmenet acquires a stunning amount of knowledge. ;)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Madness on September 04, 2013, 01:01:15 pm
I definitely appreciate what you are attempting, lockesnow, I just don't know if I could back the arc you've taken with Esmenet. If only works up until the point there's an inversion of Esmenet's character (which I still feel is coming).

Though, I feel to voice this opinion I am obliged to offer some alternative story-boarding. You're doing the good work, you are...
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Baztek on September 04, 2013, 07:37:17 pm
Locke, I really like your ideas and if there's ever a chance of TSA going on air I'd want you to be at the helm lol.

I like the switcheroo in Akka and Esmi's roles because it paints Esmi as a very competent person who is wasting away at the wrong station in life (the crux of her character), and Akka as somewhat oblivious and ineffectual when it comes to the mundane world. Though it's important Akka be not depicted as some bumbling fat sorcerer. He is a powerful beyond reckoning, just kind of scared and sensitive.



Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: locke on September 05, 2013, 12:45:51 am
I agree. :)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: tekne on September 20, 2013, 12:33:11 am
something that may go with Unholy Consult (yet to be published) in feeling
time will show if I was right
http://www.pinterest.com/igortr/pins/
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Madness on September 20, 2013, 09:52:23 pm
Hi tekne, welcome to The Second Apocalypse.

Could I ask you to choose a specific thread in which to post this? I would personally recommend the TSA-related art but your choice. I simply feel the triple post unnecessary.

Cheers.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: tekne on September 20, 2013, 10:45:05 pm
allright I ve found my way,  let me keep it here as well and I am deleting the other two...
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: jamesA01 on November 01, 2013, 04:08:32 pm
Did anyone say Gillian Anderson as Esmenet? Javier Bardem as Cnaiur?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on November 01, 2013, 05:35:30 pm
Great thoughts locke, I too would like to see a TSA show produced by you. :)

What do you guys think the best title for it would be? I tend to lean towards The Prince of Nothing. The Darkness That Comes Before is a little long, although just The Second Apocalypse could work I suppose.

I could actually see Javier Bardem as Cnaiur, even though he doesn't quite match my mental image of Cnaiur (which, as I've mentioned before, is pretty much a photorealistic Nathan Explosion from Metalocalypse, lol). I could see Bardem fitting several roles though, possibly even Maithanet. or maybe Seswatha (I quite like him as Seswatha, come to think of it...). He could probably play a good Nonman too, once the make-up was applied. He has an interesting and distinctive facial structure, which I think would be required for pretty much all the Nonmen.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on November 02, 2013, 04:16:02 pm
I'd say The Prince of Nothing would make a good title for the first movie, but only because TDTCB is too long. I just love that title.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Athjeari on November 03, 2013, 07:19:53 am
I haven't read through all of Locke's post just yet, but I have to disagree and offer some quick counter points as I have daydreamed and plotted about a visual representation of PoN.

The fragmentation Locke speaks of is more so because he is leaving out significant scenes, and adding emphasis to small scenes that shouldn't be given as much credit.  For instance, Kellhus' opening scene in the wilderness.  Although not immensely necessary and could be done via montage, you skip over the entire Leweth scene.  I'm sorry, but Kellhus and Leweth cannot be done in 45 seconds nor should it.  The scene is incredibly fundamental to the character and the story as a whole. And lets not forget you have a perfect cliffhanger ending at the end of TDTCB.  The end of the book is NOT the meet and greet with the Emperor, the end of the book is Achamian finding out the Consult are alive and infiltrated House Ikurei!! On top of that he ignores Esmi at the end too.  I think that makes for a great season ending episode...Walks past Esmi, not acknowledging her, pan way out and show the Holy War marching to war.

As for an example of adding unnecessary emphasis to scenes that don't require them.  Achamian in Carythusal.  This is a scene that could be brushed aside in a very brief amount of time because it's not important.  What is important about the scene is it sets up Achamian to be summoned back home so we can get a glimpse inside the school and of how Achamian is already doubting his own conviction.  It also gives an opportunity to learn about the Chorae, which is absolutely necessary, and to see our hidden, overarching villain later on albeit only very very briefly.

I will say that it would be difficult hopping around from character to character when they are so spaced at the beginning, but that is the point.  TDTCB is all about the beginnings of something monumental.  It is the coming together of these characters and somehow representing that visually would be necessary, but it's entirely possible. 

PoN is setup quite well for episodic viewing and seasons.  I think each book has a significant role or theme -
TDTCB = the coming together - a beginning of great things - an enemy revealed
TWP = The march - and the beginning of the transformation of Kellhus to Aspect-Emperor/God
TTT = the culmination of things - the end of the march - ascension of Kellhus to Godhood and Akka renouncing him

Just my two cents so far, hopefully it doesn't sound too critical.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Phallus Pendulus on July 24, 2014, 05:17:39 pm
Lol, I don't understand this fixation with gritty realism. It's impossible to adapt TSA as a 'realistic' low-fantasy movie or 'gritty'soap opera like Game of Thrones, the supernatural high-fantasy stuff is absolutely vital to the plot - sorcerers, rapist aliens, nonmen, skin-spies, judging eyes, gods interfering in reality, dragons, demons, honeyed anuses, deaths swirling around, etc etc.

Why not highlight the fantastical parts?

Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on July 24, 2014, 06:46:00 pm
Who wants to leave out all the fantasy? Thats kind of the whole thing, the interaction of fantasy and mundane. Maybe the fixation on "gritty realism" is just the parts that are more easily discussed? I only vaguely grasp the more fantastical elements as it is, but certainly they would have to be included.

Seeing the world through the eyes of a someone with the Sight, or without, or the Cish, is another element that would be important, right?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on February 10, 2015, 11:25:58 pm
Was rewatching Layer Cake yesterday.  I came to the cathectic conclusion that Daniel Craig has been my mental image for Coithus Saubon all these years.  He may be slightly more rugged than Saubon is described in the text.  But dramatically and visually he could nail the affect of being a charismatic manly man's man whilst hiding an emotionally wrecked soul beneath.

Chiwetel Ejiofor would be a perfect Malowebi.

As a Sudanese Arab, Alexander Siddig would be ideal for a Ketyai character but I'm no sure whom exactly.  I'd say Akka, but he too gaunt and skinny.  Maybe Eli?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Somnambulist on February 10, 2015, 11:44:04 pm
Michael Sheen (imo) would make the perfect Akka.  He's got enormous range as an actor, a certain gravitas and emotional requirement of that character, and I think the role would suit him.  Though I guess he'd have to gain some weight.  And get a tan.  But other than that, perfect!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 11, 2015, 01:38:05 am
I still think it would be better as an animated feature.

I mean yeah, that would mean no market whatsoever. But the film isn't going to happen anyway so might as well dream big.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: locke on February 11, 2015, 04:37:14 am
Was rewatching Layer Cake yesterday.  I came to the cathectic conclusion that Daniel Craig has been my mental image for Coithus Saubon all these years.  He may be slightly more rugged than Saubon is described in the text.  But dramatically and visually he could nail the affect of being a charismatic manly man's man whilst hiding an emotionally wrecked soul beneath.

Chiwetel Ejiofor would be a perfect Malowebi.

As a Sudanese Arab, Alexander Siddig would be ideal for a Ketyai character but I'm no sure whom exactly.  I'd say Akka, but he too gaunt and skinny.  Maybe Eli?
I maintain payman maadi as akka.   
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: mrganondorf on February 11, 2015, 05:16:24 am
I still think it would be better as an animated feature.

I mean yeah, that would mean no market whatsoever. But the film isn't going to happen anyway so might as well dream big.

totally agree--animation could capture the magic and size of the story in a way that cgi never will (until the semantic apocalypse)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 11, 2015, 02:54:26 pm
Is there a classic middle-eastern animation style? something comparable to anime for japan?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Somnambulist on February 11, 2015, 03:13:11 pm
Afghanistanimation.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJtQhv9dp9o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJtQhv9dp9o)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Madness on February 11, 2015, 03:37:53 pm
That's all I could think of when I read Wilshire's post.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 11, 2015, 07:54:16 pm
Is there a classic middle-eastern animation style? something comparable to anime for japan?
Ironically, high budget western style animation is so rare that I think it deserves to be given a chance for this.

I just don't want to see Cnaiur as a huge eyed pretty boy, is what I'm saying.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 11, 2015, 08:34:43 pm
So you are saying that Major Armstrong from Full Metal Alchemist wouldn't be your ideal Cnaiur?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 11, 2015, 09:11:57 pm
Hah.

That's a fine character. But doesn't fit the setting I don't think.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on February 11, 2015, 10:06:53 pm
*bishie sparkle* 

These swazond scars represent the murder of generations!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 12, 2015, 02:46:25 am
As long as you don't turn it into a harem anime with Serwe and Esmenet fighting over Kellhus.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 12, 2015, 06:07:35 pm
*bishie sparkle* 

These swazond scars represent the murder of generations!
Exactly :P I was trying to think of exactly what The Sharmat didnt want ;)

As long as you don't turn it into a harem anime with Serwe and Esmenet fighting over Kellhus.
Could definitely go south quickly, but I love anime and I think it would work. Western style animation is also a fair dream though.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 12, 2015, 10:17:12 pm
I don't have anything against anime, inherently. I've even watched a couple in my time.

I just think other styles should have something too, and most Anime wouldn't fit very well. (There are a few I've seen with pretty understated styles that wouldn't offend me particularly in this instance, though)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Garet Jax on February 13, 2015, 01:11:24 am
http://knowyourmeme.com/forums/general/topics/21608-western-animation-vs-anime


Visit the link...  5th post down I think.


I won't pretend to know much about anime or western cartoons, which IMO they are both animation, but a mix of the two could possibly do TSA justice.


Live action would still be better, if it were ever feasible and or possible.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 13, 2015, 03:32:35 am
Live action would still be better, if it were ever feasible and or possible.
I don't see what epic fantasy gains from being live action, and it's hardly feasible at all without major cuts unless it gets a Lord of the Rings level budget.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Garet Jax on February 13, 2015, 03:40:20 am
Live action would still be better, if it were ever feasible and or possible.
I don't see what epic fantasy gains from being live action, and it's hardly feasible at all without major cuts unless it gets a Lord of the Rings level budget.
It gains more of an instant recognition, over anime/cartoon, from the majority of movie goers in the west.  But, other than that, not much that I am aware of.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 13, 2015, 03:43:11 am
Well yeah that's true. Only a small subset of adult westerners will watch a cartoon, and a significant subset of that subset isn't going to watch it if it's not done by a Japanese company.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 13, 2015, 07:23:43 pm
But with infinite budget and complete disregard for audience reached.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 13, 2015, 07:50:03 pm
Yeah sure I suppose with absolutely infinite budget and no need to recoup cost live action would be better.

Also no need to do CG. Just hire half a million extras, and when the battle scenes come up, shoot real arrows and javelins at them.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 15, 2015, 10:50:33 pm
lmao, the things people will do to be in a movie and for money.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Srancy on February 25, 2015, 06:16:33 pm
The series is better suited as a musical
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 25, 2015, 07:15:56 pm
The series is better suited as a musical
Kabuki theatre
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on February 25, 2015, 09:28:56 pm
The series is better suited as a musical
I for one cannot wait for Aurang to sing me the song of his people.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Somnambulist on February 26, 2015, 12:36:43 am
If it's to be a musical, I maintain Akka sings/raps a rendition of 'It's a Hard Knock Life'
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on February 26, 2015, 03:26:14 am
Oh my.  If Cole Porter was the composer.  Yes, I could see it.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: mrganondorf on February 26, 2015, 03:38:14 am
http://knowyourmeme.com/forums/general/topics/21608-western-animation-vs-anime


Visit the link...  5th post down I think.


I won't pretend to know much about anime or western cartoons, which IMO they are both animation, but a mix of the two could possibly do TSA justice.


Live action would still be better, if it were ever feasible and or possible.

the fifth link down is ponies!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on February 26, 2015, 12:05:06 pm
Nah MG you are looking at the 5 picture :P. Look for the 5th post, its a longer one with a discussion on the subject.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: mrganondorf on March 04, 2015, 07:13:07 pm
Nah MG you are looking at the 5 picture :P. Look for the 5th post, its a longer one with a discussion on the subject.

Cnaiur the pony
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/361/a/f/warrior_pony_by_13thprotector-d5pedse.jpg
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Uncle Holy on May 28, 2015, 10:10:12 pm
I have only one guy in mind for Kellhus: Wentworth Miller.

Make him blond and you have our Emperor...
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Great Scald on June 08, 2015, 12:11:26 pm
Affleck doesn't have the right gravitas for the role, IMO.

The perfect casting would be a young Rutger Hauer, as he appeared in Blade Runner. Out of actors today, I dunno...probably Fassbender, he's got that eugenic ubermensch look that the Dunyain need.

The Dunyain really are a species apart from baseline humans, and the casting should show that. They're superior in every way, to the point of being inhuman, a bit like Tolkien's Elves or the androids in Blade Runner.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on June 12, 2015, 07:30:34 pm
Fassbender's been my dream-casting of Kellhus since I first saw someone mention it.

I think Tom Hardy could be a good Saubon as well...maybe even Cnaiur? I'm not sure. Cnaiur for me is the hardest to cast. A lot of people mention Mads Mikkleson (who I think is an amazing actor), but he never really fit for me. Cnaiur's one of the few characters where I feel like the physicality is absolutely essential. Tom Hardy in Bronson -- despite being a wildly different type of character -- is what made the connection there for me. Hardy's pulled off that same kind of hulking menace in The Dark Knight Rises and Warrior, so it almost a bit obvious.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on June 15, 2015, 12:36:44 pm
Fassbender's been my dream-casting of Kellhus since I first saw someone mention it.

This is far back as we go
Quote from: Auriga
Just a few random comments:

Quote from: lockesnow
Kellhus I've kinda got Michael Fassbender in mind, but moreso.

Moved here from v1, an undated quote quoting an undated quote. No one can ever know how long ago it was that locke originally suggested Fassbender.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on June 24, 2015, 12:26:44 am
Heh, I'm pretty sure that was the first mention...at the very least I believe it was the first time I personally heard the idea. Props to Locke.

So in my continuous boredom of being without a vehicle/work duty this week, I made a quick-list of my current fantasy of the main cast:

Kellhus -- Michael Fassbender (obviously)
(http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/300-Michael-Fassbender.jpg)

Achamian -- Ray Winstone (still my personal fave, though I do like earlier mentions of Gary Oldman)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/12/article-2579033-1C37F68400000578-205_306x423.jpg)

Cnaiur -- Tom Hardy (this particular image sold me; if he's bulked up Bane/Bronson style...I can see it)
(https://imheathcliff.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/tomheathcliff2009.jpg)

Esmenet -- Paula Patton (she's been my go-to Esmi mental impression for a while now)
(http://www.miriamsalat.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Paula_Patton_550a.jpg)

Proyas -- Dominic Cooper (he's got that youthful -- but still potentially stern/dangerous -- look that I think is needed for the character)
(https://nyppagesix.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/dominic_cooper-300x300.jpg)

Serwe -- Kristen Bell (for me, Serwe needs to be a natural beauty with just the faintest hint of "strange" thrown in -- an ethereal quality)
(http://hr-plus.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/kristen-bell-1680x1050-30360.jpg)

Conphas -- Oscar Isaac (dude totally has that vaguely arrogant handsomeness to his appearance that seems perfect)
(http://d3rm69wky8vagu.cloudfront.net/article-photos/large/1.156516.jpg)

Saubon -- Ryan Gosling (weirdly, Gosling was the image I'd initially conjured when reading Conphas, though that has changed over time)
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/713/Ryan-Gosling-3.jpg)

Maithanet -- Javier Bardem (though honestly, I can imagine a ton of different actors for Maitha...and a ton of different roles for Bardem)
(http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/javier-bardem.jpg)

Sarcellus -- Jon Hamm (someone mentioned it here before, I know, and it has always stuck for me)
(http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-460/h--/q-95/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2013/11/13/1384343875133/hamm-010.jpg)

Fanayal -- Oded Fehr (he just has the rouge-ish badass look to him)
(http://www.odedfehr.de/tm2/tmrmakin029big.jpg)

Aurang -- Mark Strong (in his illusory human form)
(https://secure.static.tumblr.com/9eb72d0ee15caa27b3a49c0ee1bb8e16/kekyxhf/38hn4fvxw/tumblr_static_akizmlvsh60oksogksw0cg00g.jpg)



To be clear, these are largely just approximate representations of my own mental image of the characters. Aside from a few instances (Fassbender for Kellhus, Winstone/Oldman for Akka, Patton for Esmi, Cooper for Proyas, and Hardy for Cnaiur), I'd probably end up seeking largely unknown actors for most roles.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: SilentRoamer on June 24, 2015, 01:37:31 pm
I like Jason Momoa as Cnaiur.

Hard though as he has played Drogo in ASOIAF recently and also Conan - well he has the barbarian chops at least!
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Quinthane on June 24, 2015, 07:52:34 pm
M. Fassbender is a good choice for Kel. Plus i like anyone who's name is a spoonerism.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Great Scald on June 25, 2015, 09:02:46 pm
I like your choices, Francis.

I also picked Fassbender for Kellhus - the guy is a human chameleon, and there's something slightly eerie about those Ken-Doll features and perfect white teeth, almost too good-looking and symmetrical. Casting Fassbender as the android in "Prometheus" was a stroke of genius, and that's pretty much how I imagined Kellhus.

I agree that Oscar Isaac would be a really good Conphas, he has those classical looks and that smug shit-eating smirk down perfectly. He looks even more smug without the beard:

(http://teleprograma.fotogramas.es/var/plan_site/storage/images/tele_corazon/2011/abril/rachel_weisz_protagoniza_agora/agora3/3664909-1-esl-ES/agora3_ampliacion.jpg)

Serwë...no one really comes to mind here, although your choice of actor was a bit too mannish-looking. Serwë's main traits in the books are vulnerability and childlike weakness, so the actor should look the part. Not sure who looks both childlike and classically beautiful, while also having a slightly "weird" face. The girl who played Stephen Hawking's sister, maybe:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/2b/1f/2a2b1fb26a7514401584a3c8de6dd048.jpg)

The Captain is definitely a Viggo Mortensen role. He needs actor who can look convincingly brutal and hardened. A man of violence, with a hollow thousand-yard stare that has seen countless murders. At the same time, he's a leader of men and a hero figure (very much a Classical Hero, not anything we moderns would call a hero), so his actor should convey that "heroic sociopath" look:

(http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/ht_The_Road_091120_ms.jpg)

Aurang: in his human disguise, he'd have to be a bald guy with a disturbing look to him. French director Gaspar Noé is actually who I'd cast as Aurang in human shape - I've met the guy in real life and he's a really brilliant director (one of my personal favorites) and all-around fascinating person, but damn if he doesn't look like he belongs on some sex-offender list:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3hEp6aIkcpk/TcghiwodocI/AAAAAAAAAAs/FGK5DHXPFpE/s1600/img_gaspar_noe.jpg)

(The face of extraterrestial anal rape)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on June 26, 2015, 03:54:56 am
Good choices there, I was actually trying to think of someone for the Captain but nothing came to mind. Viggo totally works though (I could also see Viggo as Shauriatas, or even Seswatha -- as you said, he has that sort of hard, world-weary look, and can also come off as both wise and tough). Serwe was difficult as I don't really know of anyone that actually matches my mental image, but I could see the actress you mentioned working. However, one idea I've considered particularly after seeing her recently in Martha Marcy May Marlene (great little movie) is Elizabeth Olsen:

(http://chercoulter.com/content/uploads/2013/11/2011.-Elizabeth-Olsen.People.jpg)


Also, that's fucking awesome that you got to meet Gaspar Noe! I think he's an amazing filmmaker and definitely one of the bolder and more ambitious directors working today (feels like it's been forever since his last flick though). He seems like he'd be super interesting to have a conversation with. 

ETA: On second thought, I could actually see Mark Strong as Cleric. I mean yeah, it's partially because he's bald, but he his facial structure has a lot of gravitas to it then lends itself well to the bald look, not to mention he has a great voice and could straddle that line between being menacing and almost antagonistic, but also sort of....I'm not sure, "noble" or something.


Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on August 25, 2016, 04:32:26 pm
Not a film but:

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2016/08/25/still-idiosyncratic-yet-verging-on-mainstream/

TV rights, apparently.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Redeagl on August 25, 2016, 04:45:36 pm
Not a film but:

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2016/08/25/still-idiosyncratic-yet-verging-on-mainstream/

TV rights, apparently.
IT IS HAPPENING.I really hope it does happen.Also if the show was successful then we are gonna probably see TAE and TSTSNBN also on TV.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: CondYoke on August 25, 2016, 11:38:22 pm
New thread- tv adaptation?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on August 26, 2016, 12:39:36 pm
New thread- tv adaptation?

Good call.

Continue the conversation about PoN: TV here: http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=2035.msg30074#msg30074
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: The Sharmat on August 27, 2016, 08:29:46 am
If you could make Powers Booth get in really awesome shape, he'd be a great Cnaiur. One of those actors that can be simultaneously hugely physically intimidating and cerebral, all at the same time.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: JRControl on September 01, 2016, 01:41:54 am
I have unnatural mancrushes on Bradley Cooper and Ryan Gosling. They are so so as actors, but they could fill some of the big roles I feel.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Dora Vee on October 25, 2017, 04:55:44 pm
Engaging Forum Necromancy. Here are my picks for a show that will likely never happen:

Kellhus: Evan Williams (Chevalier of Versailles)

Proyas: Pedro Pascal(Oberyn GOT), Alexander Vlahos(Monsieur of Versailles), Jonathan Rhys Meyers(The Tudors)

Conphas: Eugene Simon(Lancel GOT)

Achamian: If Robin Williams was still alive, he would have been perfect. :( But now? George Blagden(Louis 14th Versailles), John Bradley-West(Samwell Tarley. GOT)

Esmenet: Indira Varma (Ellaria Sand. GOT)

Mimara: Rosabell Laurenti Sellers (Tyene Sand. GOT)

Xerius: Rodrigo_Santoro (Xerxes in 300)

Istriya: Diana Rigg (Olenna GOT), Helen Mirren(The Queen)

The Synthese: Bryan Cranston (Breaking Bad)

Cnaiur: Mick Foley(he was insane Mankind for WWE).

Moenghus: Jonathan Pryce (High Sparrow GOT)

I guess that’ll do for now. The rest? I either can’t think of any or just haven’t thought about it. :/

Here's a link to a nice and bearded Alexander Vlahos: https://divinesong.tumblr.com/post/165278919278/lookie-its-nersei-proyas-just-kidding-its
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on October 25, 2017, 05:10:11 pm
Wow that's quite the list. You're a fan of GOT, I guess :P.

Cranston as Synthase is a great idea.
Helen Mirren too
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: TLEILAXU on October 25, 2017, 07:02:25 pm
Too many crackers imo.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on October 29, 2017, 07:12:11 am
Too many crackers imo.

Totally. The Ketyai ain't white. Proyas should be played by a 20-something handsome dude from Bollywood, not some white cracka boi.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: MSJ on October 29, 2017, 12:24:54 pm
Why we gotta get racist up in here? ;)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Dora Vee on October 29, 2017, 02:01:58 pm
Too many crackers imo.

Totally. The Ketyai ain't white. Proyas should be played by a 20-something handsome dude from Bollywood, not some white cracka boi.

Pedro Pascal is a POC. And I was under the impression that the Ketyai were like Southern Europeans.

But, yea, yellowfacing is still a bit of a problem. :/
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Hirtius/Pansa on October 29, 2017, 08:03:58 pm
Too many crackers imo.

Totally. The Ketyai ain't white. Proyas should be played by a 20-something handsome dude from Bollywood, not some white cracka boi.

Pedro Pascal is a POC. And I was under the impression that the Ketyai were like Southern Europeans.

But, yea, yellowfacing is still a bit of a problem. :/


I mean, it's up to interpretation, but I'll die on the hill that the Ketyai are all POC in my head: Nansur are east Indian, Conriyans/Ainoni are Iranian/Persian, Kianene are Seljuk Turks/Saracens.

Saubon refers to Gotian as a "shit-skinned pick" in his fit of pique at Mengedda. I wouldn't think of a mildly tanned Italian dude as "shit-skinned" lol  Idk, I think it makes the racial politics of the world way more robust and divorces the Three Seas even further from Standard European Fantasy World v.598.

Priyanka Chopra is everyone's premiere fancast choice for Esmenet by the way.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: TaoHorror on October 29, 2017, 08:30:01 pm
Priyanka Chopra is everyone's premiere fancast choice for Esmenet by the way.

Yeah, but her character sucks in Quantico ( maybe not her fault, could be due to baaaaaaad story and directing, so I'm open to it ).
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Srancy on October 29, 2017, 11:41:20 pm
George Alexander was born to play the role of Akka.

Also, the Seinfeld episode with Cool Tony bears an striking resemblance to Akka's relationship with Kellhus

https://youtu.be/GnSwz-9LLc4

Come to think of it, does Richards give off a Cnaiur vibe to anyone else?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on October 30, 2017, 04:30:28 pm
Priyanka Chopra is everyone's premiere fancast choice for Esmenet by the way.

Yeah, but her character sucks in Quantico ( maybe not her fault, could be due to baaaaaaad story and directing, so I'm open to it ).
Pretty sure this is the first time she's mentioned in this thread though ;).
[Edit] Its not lol, but the search function led me astray, pardon.

George Alexander was born to play the role of Akka.

Also, the Seinfeld episode with Cool Tony bears an striking resemblance to Akka's relationship with Kellhus

https://youtu.be/GnSwz-9LLc4

Come to think of it, does Richards give off a Cnaiur vibe to anyone else?
Love it.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: TaoHorror on October 30, 2017, 05:27:37 pm
Um, I'm no fan of Akka, but he doesn't deserve the Georgie Porgie treatment. Not sure who would be the best fit, but someone whose good with brooding self-pity.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Wilshire on October 30, 2017, 05:57:28 pm
Um, I'm no fan of Akka, but he doesn't deserve the Georgie Porgie treatment. Not sure who would be the best fit, but someone whose good with brooding self-pity.
He's a classically trained Broadway actor. He'll be great. Got the perfect look, the role is easy (coincidentally, I believe that's how he got cast for Seinfeld to - explicitly for his looks)
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Old Gnostic Fool on November 08, 2017, 04:57:07 am
I would replace Bryan Cranston with Jonathan Pryce as the Synthese. There's just something about his face that makes me thing it would fit perfectly on top of a bird's body.

For minor characters, I think Katrina Law (Spartacus) could play Fanashila.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Thing called Sarcellus on November 11, 2017, 02:54:06 pm
If it is made into TV, I pray it doesn't go as badly as Sword of Truth/Legend of the Seeker.

If it does there may be a Third Apocalypse
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Redeagl on November 11, 2017, 07:47:29 pm
If it is made into TV, I pray it doesn't go as badly as Sword of Truth/Legend of the Seeker.

If it does there may be a Third Apocalypse
Sword of Truth is a horrible book series from the first place :P
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Redeagl on November 12, 2019, 09:13:12 pm
Arianna Grande as Mimara, is the perfect casting.
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Francis Buck on November 13, 2019, 12:33:28 pm
You always have the best ideas XOXOXO :-[

Only I think Ariana Grande would actually be better casting for Psatma (after the whole "Yatwerian Youth-Age Exchange Ritual" sex magic thing). She has that kinda weird, vaguely offputting appearance that somehow is both adult-like and child-like, yet also neither. But can she act?
Title: Re: The Prince of Nothing (Film)
Post by: Srancy on January 10, 2020, 04:24:55 am
Arianna Grande as Mimara, is the perfect casting.

Yaaaas!