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Messages - Wilshire

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1
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Tidbits from Wert
« on: June 17, 2019, 07:22:42 pm »
Not that it matters, but it also likely means that they can over in late spring to summer timeframe. I dont imagine they would have forded the passes in the winter. it makes sense that this was the case though since they settled more in the north initially. This gave them more time to develop, as well as more contact with Nonmen in general - the further south the less both both.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Tidbits from Wert
« on: June 17, 2019, 06:46:59 pm »
North of the Sea of Cerish is... a lot farther north than where I thought the Gates of Earwa were. I always assumed Emwama to be a Kian type desert people, rather than ranging in the far north.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?
« on: June 17, 2019, 06:42:05 pm »
We know that Markless magic is a thing, if we're calling it thaumaturgy due to it being God(s) (markless) magic  then I'm cool with that.

Is the Chorae itself actually material in the function of the object Mimara created? I don't know if that's actually the case - but certainly it can be easier to change the function of something than to create from scratch. Mimara and Kellhus' thaumaturgy are obviously going to be invoked in different ways. Kellhus directs things to happen through force of thought, Mimara through force of will. She thaumatically wills the chorae to function as she needs.

Achamian is confused when he sees Kellhus floating and whatever else markless magic , so him having no useful insight for what Mimar did is no surprise.

4
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Psalm of Imimorl
« on: June 17, 2019, 05:50:11 pm »
The World to him, who sings my song,

for I am the Font, the Spirit of the Deepest Deep,

and mine is the first heart to beat your blood.

The World to him, who sings my song.

This is Imimorul saying anyone that sings his song (the rest of the poem?) will get the World.
And that he is the proginator of those singers, which could technically be either the Nonmen or Humans?


I, Imimorul, fled the Heavens,

so much did I love the brooks that chirrup,

the high mountains that hiss,

the myriads that bolt through this blessed hair,

Imimorul was a God of some description who loved the world, and so left Heaven (The Outside) to live among the Inside.


The World to him, who raises up rooves in the Deep.

I, Imimorul, did flee the Starving [sky], so much did I fear the Heavens,

the wrath of those who were wroth, who would forbid my love,

of the myriads of the World.

Worth noting that the depths of the world seem to be the beginning of the world, or at least the parts Imimorul loves most deeply.

Feeling the Sky once he's in the world, afraid that the heavens could see/stop him. So he flees underground.

"Myriads of the world" here meaning all the different things of the world? Living creatures, plants, the ground and the caverns.


The World to her, who kindles her fire in the Deep.
More about the Holy Deep, but who is "her".


I, Imimorul, did cut from my hand my fingers,

and from my arm, my hand, and from my body, my arm,

and these pieces of me I did place in the wombs of Lions,

so that I might dwell content in my own company.

He cuts off his fingers, hand, arm. Gives the bits to Lions. These bits become his children (dwelling in his own company). Unless they become his clones, to literally dwell in his own company.


And I became One-Armed, Imimorul, the Unshielded.

This might have some poetic meaning beyond the obvious "shielded" because he cut off his shield arm.



And you were as children to me,

the form of Gods as the issue of Lions, sons who would father nations,

and daughters who would mother the myriads of the World.

The phalanges he put into lions become his children who sired nations.
Interestingly, its the Men who fathered nations.

The Nonmen Women are something of an enigma even here. They did not mother nations, but rather became "the myriads of the World". Earlier, it looks like myriads is being used to describe the inaniment world, or maybe both the ground/depths itself as well the creatures living among it.

Also, these Nonmen from Lions are not from women. It could be the nonmen women are not necessarily human-analogue shaped. That the nonmen actually are birth from the beasts of the world. Though, I don't think this really fits in with the lore we assume we know.


And I sang to you such songs as are only heard in the highest of Heavens, and nowhere in the Hells.

We did weep together, as we sang, for woe cares not for names or glory only that skin blackens for bruising, breaks for blood.

Heaven and NOT Hell. There are at least two distinct possibilities, no more. I'm not sure what the ramifications are for a hell that has no songs of nonmen.

And a penchant for remembering only sorrow, blood, and pain. Maybe the Erratics are no so different than what Nonmen always became later in life?



The World to him, who sings my song.

Pretty clear, discussed initially above


The World to him, who finds me in the Deep.

A final reference to what is basically The Holy Deep. This, if its the Nonmen creation myth, really explains why they are obsessed with the underground. It seems they believe their God lives in the Earth, not the Sky.



The World to him, and woe.

The suffering motif to end it. Not redemption or Eden, only more sorrow.  Maybe this is why they seek oblivion as well, someplace that is neither the Woe that is their god, nor the Hunger that is the Gods.

5
General Earwa / Re: Inri Sejenus
« on: June 17, 2019, 04:31:38 pm »
Yeah its in Wert's History of Earwa that mentions the arrival of the Inchoroi, preceded by a huge blast (before the ark crashed down), which itself was preceded by the Nail appearing.

Inri came from humble origins though, during a time of relative chaos, so its not unlikely that his exact birth date is not known.

Unfortunately, the Inchoroi having access to whatever the Nail is so recently would not make much sense. There's just no way only a few thousands years ago the Inchoroi could call down either a laser strike or a teleportation beam, or even simply a spotlight, from something in geostationary orbit above Earwa.

But just because it appears to have originated from the Nail doesn't mean it did. I think some airborne Gnostic Cants might have made things appear like a person was ascending into heaven. A simple Bar of Heaven creates a beam of light from the ground to the sky. Another Cant cast within the light be be rather obscured, to where a flying Inchoroi could vaporize the body within...

I'm not sure that's any more or less likely that Inri going full Jesus and ascending into the Heavens to sit at the right hand(s) of Whatever God(s). Neither explanation is satisfactory to me.


6
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC] The Gods and Their Agency
« on: June 17, 2019, 03:55:53 pm »
Wait what, the holy deep isnt a topos?
Never referred to as such as far as I remember.

It seems a perfect place for a topos to exist. Certainly on the way down we see suffering stacked on suffering. Ageless, infinite suffering of every crazy nonman, culminating in the the brutal depths of the deep. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be one.

7
General Earwa / Re: Inri Sejenus
« on: June 17, 2019, 03:52:59 pm »
I wish I knew what Bakker was driving at with Wert's History of Earwa. That the Nail is relatively new, astrologically speaking, seems to be significant... But there's no way to really ferret out why.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC] The Gods and Their Agency
« on: June 17, 2019, 02:18:19 pm »
Wait what, the holy deep isnt a topos?

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC] The Gods and Their Agency
« on: June 17, 2019, 12:27:38 pm »
Blindness as a theme in topoi, not gods specifically. Both the Holy Deep and Cil' Aujas , with the later that whole thing with the Eye in the heart.

As for Ciphrang, firstly they aren't Gods. But besides, none of them actually go into the Ark, they are rained down onto the top of the stairs, and IIRC the only one that makes it to the Ark is the one that eats Iyokus' soul who then discorporates before entering the ark itself.

10
Philosophy & Science / Re: The mindfulness conspiracy
« on: June 14, 2019, 12:55:49 pm »
I dont know, it seems like good advice to me.

I think the key assumption here is that a person trying to be mindful, or practicing mindfulness, is incapable of both critical thinking and active engagement. Which... is ridiculous. People can do various things, usually one at a time, and being happier (if that's the goal of mindfulness) is OK.

I often stare in amazement at the things people get stressed about. I dont do any form of meditation, "mindfulness", yoga, or prayer, but if those are the things one needs to take a deep breadth and realize that the world isn't coming to an end when a waiter brings you water without ice, then I fail to see that as harmful.

Sure, as with everything, taking it to hyperbolic extremes creates insane outcomes, but do we really think that most people are going to take it to that level?

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC] The Gods and Their Agency
« on: June 14, 2019, 12:46:50 pm »
But something specific we always get with topoi is blindness, especially to the gods. That's a thematic element that I think dismissing outright is a mistake. If a topos is supposed to be the closest to the outside, I'd expect the Gods to interact most heavily there. What we get is something much different. Godless vacuums where the outside, and inside subjective reality, become material and objective. Yet we see no gods in Meggeca, we see the bizarre Wight in the Mountain (an entity not fully in the outside for some reason), the physical Eye in the Heart, and the Nonmen hiding from Gods.

Plenty of opportunities in the story for Gods be reach out, especially in places to attuned to the outside. That they never do is very telling, despite ample room in the plot.

12
General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« on: June 14, 2019, 12:11:02 pm »
Yeah that was a big part of the problem with Gloomhaven - too difficult, not enough interest. I like the idea of persistant/legacy games that change as you play, but unfortunately I don't think I have the right group to play them.

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General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« on: June 13, 2019, 07:04:16 pm »

Scyth - Very complex war game. Basically a alternate history post-WWI setting with mechs, you compete to conquer part of Russia. Its a lot of fun, but there's a ton of rules. It took nearly 6 hours for 4 of us to play through it one time (with two of us being new).

Spirit Island - YES. This game is awesome, and since good cooperative games can be difficult to find, I was very pleased with this. You are spirits trying to stop the colonization of your island. There's 8 spirits, and the game only plays up to 4, plus many mechanics that are recommended to add one at a time to keep difficulty/complexity lower for new people. This makes it easy to bring in new folks, and allows a lot of ramping up of difficulty each time you win.

added this to my earlier post.

14
I dont even know if its possible, but since PC I'm sure there's mods if nothing else, but would turning down the difficulty ruin the experience of playing the games? I got about 2 or 3 bosses into DS3 and basically decided I didn't have the time to invest in it all. Seems cool though!

15
Literature / Re: Yearly Targets 2019
« on: June 13, 2019, 05:47:40 pm »
The Stone Sky by N K Jemisin

The first book was the best, then the last, then the middle. This is a common trend I'm seeing with trilogies, and something I've come to expect.

There's definitely great commentary on the nature of subjugation, racism, and institutionalized violence/hate. Commentary that was built into the world, and not highly visible from the start, making its way into later books once the ground was set. The first book had the most interesting exploration of magic, despite later books adding in new layers, and I found myself wishing for some more involved Magic Duels.

But magic wasn't what the book was about, and I think largely Jemisin accomplished what she set out to do. Its a quick read, compared to some of the other books I've been reading, and I'd definitely recommend it to anyone on the fence. Its a great fantasy story.

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