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Messages - Borque

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1
Author Q&A / Wracu and Chorae
« on: March 07, 2016, 07:58:42 pm »

Astonishingly enough, nobody seems to have asked this yet, so here goes:

Why didn't the Consult equip their dragons with Chorae?

2
General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: December 08, 2013, 10:08:49 pm »
I have reflected on your comments. I think the suggested age span should be removed.

I still think that som kind of parental guidance is a good idea, though.

3
General Earwa / Re: Investigating Achamian's Dreams
« on: December 07, 2013, 07:26:21 pm »
Excellent idea. I have thought about analyzing them further in the light of the timing tidbit we got, but haven't gotten around to it. I'll help out in whatever spare time I have.

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General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: December 07, 2013, 01:05:07 pm »
Westeros (which still likely gets more posts and proportionately more views than this entire forum does).
Not necessarily true, I think. Bakker activity there is in one thread. Here, it's spread out and nicely spread out over all the topics. There is a lot more repetition of themes and questions there.

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News/Announcements / Re: Suggestion Box
« on: December 04, 2013, 11:52:30 am »
I have woken the dreaded Pre-FAQ discussion from the dead. Be warned.

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General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: December 04, 2013, 11:49:49 am »
Ah, so this is the dreaded Pre-FAQ. Finally, we meet.

I'm thinking we should have a part of the FAQ dedicated to new/potential readers who aren't familiar with the books.

I have started a couple of suggestions for questions and answers below, feel free to give your opinions, suggest stuff to add or remove, and improve my writing as needed.

Who is this Bakker guy anyway?
R. Scott Bakker ("RSB") is a Canadian author, yada yada, copy/paste from Wikipedia or link there?
He is best known for his fantasy series called The Second Apocalypse.

What is The Second Apocalypse?
The Second Apocalypse is a series encompassing at least two trilogies, Prince of Nothing and Aspect-Emperor, and one possible duology or trilogy of which nothing yet is known. The two first trilogies can be read independently, but it is generally considered to be best to start with the first trilogy, Prince of Nothing.

Will I like The Second Apocalypse?
Possibly, but not certainly. Many readers consider these books too dark, pompous, or difficult, while many others love them as complex, ambiguous, poetic and challenging. Generally speaking, if you liked Lord of the Rings, George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire,  and/or Frank Herbert's Dune books you stand a good chance of appreciating The Second Apocalypse and should try it out. You need to have a high tolerance for internal ruminations of characters, occasional philosophy, a few outright disgusting scenes involving sex and/or violence, and characters being solidly grey.

It helps if you have read at least a couple of other epic fantasy series, as Bakker works a lot with subverting well known tropes of the genre.


It's almost Christmas. Will my kids love The Second Apocalypse?
No. No, they won't. You definitely don't want to give these books to your kids without having read them yourself first. These books are firmly adult, and as such they are probably not appreciated by kids under 18 or more likely 25 (... though I'm not sure about this one - that's my opinion anyway...).

How should I go about reading The Second Apocalypse?
They should definitely be read in the order they were published, as later books contain spoilers for earlier ones. This means starting out with the Prince of Nothing books, and reading them in the following order:
  • The Darkness That Comes Before.
  • The Warrior Prophet
  • The Thousandfold Thought
When starting with The Darkness That Comes Before, do not give up until you have read at least around 200 pages, preferably the entire book. Names will be troubling for some at first, since many of them are very unfamiliar, but ignore this - the important ones will stick eventually. Be aware of that almost everyone, even die-hard fans of the books, found the beginning to be tough going. If you found all of the first 200 pages to be completely unreadable garbage, you probably won't like the rest either, and you can start looking for something else to read. If you found something that piqued your interest, regardless of it being the political machinations, some of the characters, the magic system(s) or something else, keep on reading until you've finished the book. Then make the decision if you want to read on, keeping in mind that the next two books, The Warrior Prophet and The Thousandfold Thought, are generally considered better than the first one.

Then continue with the Aspect-Emperor trilogy, in order:
  • The Judging Eye
  • The White-Luck Warrior
  • The Unholy Consult (not yet published)
On RSBs web site there are two short stories, The Four Revelations of Cinial'jin and The False Sun. They were released after The White Luck Warrior, and are probably best read after that book. However, be aware of that The False Sun contains a spoiler for The Unholy Consult.

This Kellhus guy seems to act very weirdly for being the hero, right?

Yes. This is intentional. Beware of considering him a hero, quite possibly he is the main villain. As of writing this FAQ, five books into the six book series, his status as a hero and/or villain is still very much undetermined and subject for some great discussions on this forum.

What are all these strangë chäractërs? They make m˙ head hûrt.
(...)


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News/Announcements / Re: Suggestion Box
« on: December 03, 2013, 08:21:25 am »

I mentioned this is some other thread a while back, and now finally found this thread which clearly is a better place to post it.

I would like to have a clear entry point for people who are new to Bakker, or curious about his work, primarily the Eärwa books.

Could be a stickied post, or a FAQ type document, ideally linked to from every page - due to Google, the top page isn't the given entry point for new readers.

If needed, I can volunteer to help writing this, if the powers that be think it's a good idea.

Opinions?

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Dunyain Weakness
« on: December 01, 2013, 09:27:43 pm »
Is she still around?

9
Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: November 30, 2013, 10:34:35 am »
Started on Gardens of the moon, by Steven Erikson. Wish me luck on the slog of slogs :)
Good luck!

The only slog rule is to go on until you have finished #2, Deadhouse Gates.
GotM is much weaker.

I read the Malazan books up until Bonehunters I think. Then lost interest. The first few books I found ok/entertaining in general, with a few really great parts. But the series was just too haphazard and unfocused for me.

10
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Seswatha's Escape
« on: November 29, 2013, 10:43:14 pm »
I love the idea of Seswatha potentially being a bad guy, and that we still don't even know who the f the heroes are. Good work, Mr Bakker.

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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Seswatha's Escape
« on: November 29, 2013, 09:13:25 pm »
I mean, the Mandate and Swayal at least dream the Dreams to corroborate some of it.
But Seswatha selected, and possibly edited, the dreams too. So nothing is certain.

12
The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Seswatha's Escape
« on: November 29, 2013, 07:14:30 pm »
Yes. Yes, he could have. I like this idea.

Only, it was the Isûphiryas and not the Sagas that he saved a copy of. Which means that he possibly has rewritten ancient Nonman history, not his own.

If that is so, there's an error on the wiki timeline online.  That's where I stumbled upon this, and it said that it was The Sagas.  Anyone got their TTT appendix handy to clarify?
Checked the appendix now. It is the Isûphiryas. It's in the Isûphiryas entry.

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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Seswatha's Escape
« on: November 29, 2013, 03:29:06 pm »
Supposedly all of the copies of The Sagas were at Sauglish, and all but one were destroyed when the city was sacked.  The one that was not was delivered by Seswatha to the scribes of the Three Seas.  Uh...could not Seswatha have written history how he wanted on his journey?
Yes. Yes, he could have. I like this idea.

Only, it was the Isûphiryas and not the Sagas that he saved a copy of. Which means that he possibly has rewritten ancient Nonman history, not his own.

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: November 28, 2013, 08:38:03 pm »
As I said, the "why", the reason Ishterebinth has turned, will be key.

No thoughts on this then, Borque:

If they have wholesale joined the Consult, in my mind, and Nil'giccas left because of their decision, then it is because someone has told them the "truth" of the Inverse Fire.
I think that is the only reason the Intact would turn and the only reason other than greater trauma that the Erratics would turn.
Yes. If the Consult managed to convince them that Nil'G lied, for example by letting them send an Intact Ishterebinthian over to take a look at the IF for himself, that would do the trick.

Btw, I think Nil'giccas having lied about the IF is what Gin'Yursis refers to in Cil-Aujas, when he says "They betrayed... You betrayed...".

ETA: On the other hand, if the reason is something weaker than this, then Kellhus might be able to persuade them to actually join the Ordeal for real. Like, for example, Aurax promising not to send oceans of Sranc into Injor-Niyas in exchange for them not being an annoyance.

Quote
On another note, I hope Scott provides an explanation for why Ishoriöl changed name to Ishterebinth. Dunno why I'm so curious about that one, but this question keeps bothering me for some reason.

Probably when Ishoriol became the Last of the Mansions after the Apocalypse and the loss of Cil-Aujus. Then "Exalted Hall" becomes "Exalted Stronghold?"
I think it had changed names before Cil-Aujas fell. If the PoN Timeline wikia page at http://princeofnothing.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline is correct (can't check the TTT appendix myself atm) it changed names even before Mog-Pharau was summoned (see entry for year 2132).

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The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:29:08 pm »
I like this whole post. Unfortunately I agree with pretty much all of it so I don't have much else to say.
Thanks. I'm of course not 100% convinced this is how things will turn out, but I consider this is a very probable, though tragic and depressing,  outcome.

As I said, the "why", the reason Ishterebinth has turned, will be key.

On another note, I hope Scott provides an explanation for why Ishoriöl changed name to Ishterebinth. Dunno why I'm so curious about that one, but this question keeps bothering me for some reason.

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