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Messages - ThoughtsOfThelli

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(Everyone take a deep breath, this is an extensive one...)

Update, March 17, 2018:
-Updated the character list by adding 329(!) new characters (names of characters added under spoiler tag, as they are so many). Only names were added so far: brief descriptions and actual entries (if they do not exist already) will come later.
(click to show/hide)
-Changed "Tuthorsa" to "Beotha Tuthorsa" in the character list and renamed his wiki entry; also made some small edits to said entry.
-Changed "Kushigas" to "Ersa Kushigas" in the character list and renamed his wiki entry; also made some small edits to said entry.
-Changed "Imhailas" to "Gawol Imhailas" in the character list and renamed his wiki entry; also made some small edits to said entry.
-Changed "Shinurta" to "Khui Shinurta" in the character list.
-Changed "Semper" to "Midru Semper" in the character list and renamed his wiki entry; also made some small edits to said entry.
-Changed "Iyengar" to "Nūkulk Iyengar" in the character list and renamed his wiki entry; also made some small edits to said entry.
-Eskeles was in the character list twice, as "Eskeles" and "Thanteus Eskeles", so I deleted the former.
-Conger was misspelled as "Konger" in the character list, corrected that and changed his entry to the "C" section of the list.
-Oxwora was misspelled as "Oxwara" in the character list, corrected that.

EDIT: Did some work in the "A" section:
-In general - edited some already existing information and added links. For some inexplicable reason, though, the links to the "Aörsi", "Carythusal" and "Mimara" pages wouldn't work, even though these pages clearly exist (all the others worked fine).
-Added brief descriptions (with help from the TUC glossary) to the following characters: Abbarsallas, Aisarinqu, Aisralu, Amrezzer the Black, Anasūrimbor Koringhus, Anasūrimbor Nanor-Mikhus, Anasūrimbor Nanor-Ukkerja VI, Aratrula the Mad, Aulyanau Cawa-Imvullar and Avalunsil.

And now, a small request from me: anyone who wants to volunteer to help me out and add brief descriptions/create articles for some of the characters listed above is very welcome!
I figured out which ones were missing from the wiki list through a full list of my own I created back in November/December, which has information about the books/short stories said characters appear/are mentioned in. So you can just ask me if you want to help and can't remember in which book character X appeared/don't feel like looking it up. Quite a few of these characters are just mentioned once or twice in the whole series, so creating entries and so on wouldn't really be hard work.

General Earwa / Re: Event thread (for the wiki)
« on: March 16, 2018, 08:25:13 pm »
*sigh* Inconsistency time!

So, remember how Mimara was implied to have killed the man who was her first master during her years of slavery? (TWLW, chapter 12)
Five years later they would find him dead, his body jammed into the sewer chute behind the scullery. Apparently Abbarsallas could only be broken once.

From the TUC glossary:
Abbarsallas (4068-4106)-Mimara’s owner during her first five years in Carythusal.

Going by this quote and glossary entry, this would mean Mimara was sold into slavery in or around 4101 (when she would have been 5-6 years old). This is not consistent with what is said in TDTCB (see previous post), which had me estimate Mimara had been sold into slavery in or around 4104 (at age 8-9)...

The Unholy Consult / Re: Identity of the Mutilated
« on: March 14, 2018, 06:40:20 pm »
I agree - I think it's a telltale that he was a traitor, without whom The Consult might've lost the battle of Ishual.

Why do his scars need to be visable to be real?  He could well be the one who they managed to turn via Cants of Compulsion, or broken by showing him the mutilation of the others.  Psychological trauma, or torture, is no less real.  Alternatively, he might have been the one for whom just seeing the Inverse Fire was enough to turn him.

While that is a viable possibility, H, Malowebi's narration might indicate there is something going on with the unscarred Dūnyain (this is from chapter 18 of TUC, bolding mine):
He alone appeared unscarred and intact, though his attitude was so remote as to be cruel.
Of course, this is open to interpretation.

Or that these Dunyain are still continuing the mission, still breeding new dunyain, and Mr.Noscars was one of the new ones. I would imagine with the tekne they could get some proper Axolotl Tanks.

Now that's an intriguing idea, pity that Malowebi's narration didn't give us any clues regarding one or more of them seeming younger than the rest.
One issue I can see with this is that Ishuäl was presumably discovered less than 20 years before the events of TAE, so you'd think Malowebi would notice if one or more of the Mutilated was under 20 years of age. Again, this could be explained by the scars being disfiguring enough to hide that (this considering that someone other than the unscarred one was a second-generation Dūnyain) or that the Tekne allowed them to have the new Dūnyain grow to adulthood very rapidly?

The Unholy Consult / Identity of the Mutilated
« on: March 13, 2018, 08:58:45 pm »
TLEILAXU and I were discussing the possible identity of the Mutilated in the Quorum and I mentioned how shortly after reading TUC I had considered the possibility that one or more of them could be (one or more of) the Pragma mentioned in PON. According to the wiki, however, Samarmau Uän was born in 4001 and Meigon was born in 4002, which would make them 131 and 130 as of TAE. So, it would be exceedingly unlikely for one or both of them to be among the Mutilated (unless chanv was involved, I suppose).
But then we noticed that the third Pragma mentioned by name, Kessriga Jeükal does not have his birth date given in the text, and unlike the other two does not have a glossary entry. Which could be significant by itself. To be sure, Jeükal taught Kellhus in his youth and Kellhus was in his 50s during TAE, so he can't be a young man in any case, but it's possible he was nowhere near as old as the other two. And keep in mind that Malowebi himself is not young either, so maybe he wouldn't remark on the Mutilated's age as, say, someone like Sorweel or Kelmomas might have had. TLEILAXU also pointed out that the burnt Mutilated's scars are so extensive they might actually make it hard for Malowebi to tell what his actual age is.
So it definitely seems that there could be some clues here - anyway, it's as interesting a subject to discuss as any. Anyone else want to comment/add some details we might have missed?

General Q&A / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
« on: March 12, 2018, 03:40:34 pm »
You're delving into the glossary entries are very interesting, keep at it :)

Thanks. :P "ThoughtsOfThelli muses about glossary details, Xth edition"...

Quyil - a female nonman magi?

I actually assumed that was a collective noun of some sort, but you might be right. Intriguing, wish someone would ask Bakker about some of these things I wonder about. ;)

The way the entry is written, it could be interpreted that she was a Queen prior to her union with Sin'niroiha. Its very easy to assume otherwise given the setting but the Nonmen did always have strange customs ;) .

It does seem to be the case, doesn't it? These sort of details just makes me want to know more, as I said in my previous post...
Also of note is the fact that Nil'giccas seems to have inherited his ability for sorcery from his mother (Sin'niroiha does not seem to be mentioned as being one of the Qūya, but I might have missed it?). Interesting in a series/universe where taking after one's father in looks and/or skills is most often the case.

General Misc. / Re: Pets
« on: March 12, 2018, 01:05:23 pm »
Sacha is 11 today! Here he is doing his favourite thing - sleeping on my bed.

General Q&A / [TUC Spoilers] Tsinirū
« on: March 10, 2018, 10:06:05 pm »
From the TUC glossary,
"Ishterebinth" entry:
This (likely apocryphal) prophecy of competition between Ishoriöl and Siöl did not come to pass until the famed marriage of Queen Tsinirū (one of the most gifted of the Quyil) with Sin'niroiha, the Nonman King of Nihrimsūl, the ancient rival of Kū'jara-Kinmoi.
"Nihrimsūl" entry:
What little is known regarding Nihrimsūl comes refracted through the lens of Ishoriöl, which though unified with Nihrimsūl through the marriage of Sin'niroiha and Tsinirū, remained thoroughly Tsonic in custom and outlook.
"Sin'niroiha" entry:
Nonman King of Nihrimsūl, initially, and thence Ishoriöl through his marriage to the sorceress Tsinirū, who would bear him Nil'giccas, his only son, and at long last unite all Mansions under the Blood of Tsonos.

Can we thus conclude that Tsinirū was the queen of Ishoriöl in her own right before the marriage to Sin'niroiha? If so, that's a tantalizing bit of information...we know so little about the Cūnuroi women, let alone their role in society and whatnot. They're mostly notable just for the fact of their deaths, and bits like this just make me want to know more about some of these female characters that are mentioned here and there throughout the books.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] - Cnaļur/Ajokli theory
« on: March 10, 2018, 07:39:38 pm »
About that trickster thing, I have an idea. As I understand it, Ajokli fuck up your plans at the last second and that's why he's called trickster. But Cnaiur was manipulated by a dunyain ... And twice! So I would get why Ajokli like to be an ass with people who have "a plan". People with plan can go to hell (literally), you want something? Fine, kill your way to it! Don't mess around with a plan or Ajokli will kick your ass!

 In my mind it fit.

That can very well be the case, and I've wondered if it's possible that Cnaiür's personality was somewhat warped after his ascension from human to Ciphrang/god. That could explain it too, perhaps?

Also, wasn't there a moment in TWP(?) where Cnaiür seemed to be possessed by Gilgaöl in the battlefield? Maybe that was an early manifestation of Ajokli seeping in into his past/future (remember that there was already a Gilgaöl/Ajokli debate concerning Celmomas' vision, so the two could very well be mistaken for each other).

Recent updates (from March 7, 2018):
-Expansion of the "Appearance" section of the "Mimara" page
-Addition of the "Mimara" page to the "Prophets" category (usually I don't mention category updates here, as I don't think they're important enough, but I felt this one was relevant)

General Earwa / Event thread (for the wiki)
« on: March 08, 2018, 11:44:21 pm »
Sister thread to this one. This thread will cover any events that aren't birth or deaths, in (rough) chronological order.

This is what I have for now:

Nau-Cayūti marries Iėva
From TWLW, chapter 12:
Through closed eyes he watched her, Iėva, his wife of seven years, scurry naked to the cabinet across their spare room and produce a philtre, which she considered with an expression hung between terror and gloating.
As this takes place at the time of Nau-Cayūti's "death", established as taking place in 2140 (TTT glossary, among other sources), it can be concluded that Nau-Cayūti and Iėva were married in or around 2133.

Mimara is sold into slavery
From TDTCB, chapter 3:
"Six years ago," she repeated. "My daughter died the same year."
This chapter takes place in the early spring of 4110, meaning that Mimara would have "died" around early 4104, maybe sometime in the later part of 4103. The way this is phrased leads me to believe, however, that it is more likely that Mimara would have been sold into slavery in (early) 4104 (for the curious, she would have been 8-9 at the time).

Serwa is sent to go live with the Swayal Sisterhood
From TJE, chapter 3:
But when she was scarce three years old, her tutors realized that she possessed the Gift of the Few. Despite Esmenet's threats, despite her entreaties, Kellhus sent the girl-still a babe!-to Iothiah to be raised among the Swayal witches.
In the other thread Serwa's birth year was estimated as being 4115, meaning she was sent to live among the Swayal Sisterhood in or around 4118.

The "incident" between Theliopa and Inrilatas takes place
Discussed in this thread and estimated as taking place at some point before 4129, possibly before 4127 considering some of the information available (4127 referring to the latest year possible for Kelmomas and Samarmas to still be soul-conjoined).

I'll keep updating this thread with more events as I go along.

Never understood this view, on Akka becoming the savior.

He is the most educated on The No-God, has somehow become a Prophet of the Past, and is no weakling wielding the Gnosis. Damnitt, Bakker doesn't have a soul if Akka don't catch a break in TNG.

I agree that Akka will have a heroic role, but I don't think he'll be "the savior". That role is destined for Mimara, the true prophet. Akka is now playing the (still rather important) Seswatha role.

Somehow, I doubt that Anagkė (in universe) and Bakker (out of universe) will let Akka catch a break. Even if things do go "well" for him for while, as much as that can be said of a character in a "peri-apocalyptic" world (as opposed to post-apocalyptic), it's almost certain something terrible will happen to him again before the end of the series.

"Fuck that dude, and fuck his whole life *show the finger*"
-- Anagke, about Achamian, c.4063 - present

Very true, and very funny. :D

General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: March 07, 2018, 07:46:48 pm »
It's Martemus and Conphas talking after the battle of Kiyuth.

Good to know I wasn't misremembering. :)

General Misc. / Re: Pets
« on: March 07, 2018, 02:38:23 pm »
This occurred with my sister when her kids were young. Her youngest now is 16 and they have two Boxers now and they treat them as they should be. Which makes me happy to know my sister wasn't just cruel, but didn't have proper time for the care of a dog then. Them Boxers are huge and they think they are lap dogs. My mom was mad when she got them, because off baseless stories of them being viscous. They're like two little babies. But, protective. You take them on a walk and see another dog and its all I can do to hold on to them. Well, the male at least, female not so much. I love those dogs and they have always been gentle with my kids. My 2 year old playa with them and its a sight. They let him do anything to them and then knock him down and lick him til he's sopping wet, lol. Its all about how you, the owner, treats a dog.

That's good to hear. I do think that most people who mistreat animals like that are not actually cruel (though certainly some are), but like you said don't have the time to deal with the animal, or don't really know how. Which is a good argument in favour of waiting until you are ready to deal with a pet responsibly...

It is truly amazing how a dog will reflect its owner's behaviors.

I firmly believe that there aren't any 'bad' dog breeds.
I also believe equally strongly that not all people should be allowed to have any dog breed. Some breeds just take more work than others to behave appropriately.

They all take some amount of training, but some are more strong headed than others, and people who don't know how to take care of dogs end up making poorly behaved dogs. Toy breeds are the worst in that regard - you have owners who don't have to train their dogs properly because the damage they can do is minimal. No one is calling the police when the Chihuahua bites your ankle. Unlike, for example, everyone's favorite breed to hate - pitbulls. They can be intimidating looking to begin with, and they are stubborn. The owner needs to know how to be in charge because people will call the police if it sniffs impolitely in their direction.

But regardless of the breed, if you treat a dog like it needs to be treated (ie like a dog and not like a human child or a slave) its absolutely incredible how resilient and happy they can be, even coming from terrible situations.

I think people would be much happier with their dogs if they had an appropriate dog assigned to them by someone who knew what they were doing, rather than letting people get dogs because they like how they look.

That is very true. And I can relate to that in how my sister raised her Chihuahua - I love that dog and have known him since he was a puppy, but he can be pretty agressive and antisocial. Never socialized enough or early on with other animals, especially other dogs. Doesn't get enough exercise. Not much that can be done now, since he's already an adult dog (4 years old) and not my dog to raise after all (doesn't even live with me, only around when my sister comes to stay with us every now and then).
Getting dogs based on how they look is such a stupid thing to do. It goes back to my earlier comment on how some people get a new cat or dog as if they were getting a new piece of furniture. Back when my mother got our first dog, she chose a Labrador based on the breed's personality, and it worked out well for everyone. No one here would be able to train or deal with a dog such as a Pitbull adequately, so guess what, we never got one. No problems. People really should do some research or ask someone who knows for advice before getting a dog of X breed because "they looked so cute" or some similar reason.

General Earwa / Re: TSA related art and stuff. (VI)
« on: March 07, 2018, 11:46:20 am »
I like this, Quinthane! I can't place the scene or characters, though....Proyas and Saubon? From TGO?

Also liked your new additions to the art of TSA, Quinthane. :)

I think it's Conphas and...Martemus, maybe? Might be mistaken, though, it just feels more like them.

General Misc. / Re: Pets
« on: March 06, 2018, 08:49:58 pm »
ToT, I appreciate you informing me. I am against any form of hurt/neglect towards animals. Now, if we got a cat, I would never do that after the information you provided me.

My sister had a dog when her kids was young. She would keep the dog in the basement or on a 5 foot chain in the backyard 90% of the time. Me and her had words many a time over it. I thought it was like prison for the dog. It broke my heart, I would go to her house and take the dog for walks all the time because of it. Dogs take time and patience, if you don't have it or life circumstances don't allow pets. Should be a damn law.

I'm glad to hear that. :) I think many people may think declawing is more harmless than it actually is by equating cat claws with human nails, it's really not that good a comparison.

That's a sad story, that poor dog. :( I have several acquaintances that have/had had pets in similar circumstances (especially locked up dogs like your sister's) and it sucks just hearing about it and not being able to do anything about it. Fortunately my friends and relatives are more responsible about those things and either do a good job caring for their pets or don't have any. People who get cats, dogs and other animals as they'd get a new sofa or something really shouldn't be allowed to have any pets.

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